[oldman]

I only have one more question (thanks to your knowledge). Did the w31 use the standard Olds 350 log exhaust manifolds or did it have a separated slightly better contoured exhaust manifold like the 455? Or maybe the 350 manifolds from 68 up just got better looking and flowing? I'm assuming it had a standard at the time 2.25 exhaust headpipe.

[rocket403]

Originally Posted by oldman

I would agree that functionally it would perform like a 1970 w31 (assuming 4.3 were an option with the W27). The article is by its very nature short. So they did not go into all the details, safe to say it was a "shop built" close. Probably with headers as I highly doubt they took them off between articles.

The W27 Rear was an option that I really don't think any other manufacturer offered and could have gears upto 500, I came across one in the early 90's that was a NOS unit never been in a car at the time I had a 71 Cutlass Supreme 350 4sp with W25 Ram Air Option from the factory the W27 was for sale and I could have had it for 5K it was complete from drum to drum It was probably the last New W27 in North America and I had just got married and couldn't swing it LOL.

[oldman]

Yeh I checked on the exhaust and pronounced the 350 olds the uglies exhaust manifold design, single exhaust and duals use the same manifold and the drivers side feeds into the passenger side through a sub 2” looking pipe, for performance work, a cap is placed in the passenger side cross over tube and an odd size head pipe is put on the driver”s side. I have and will post a short article by the olds 350, 310 hp pure stock drag owner, she states the 310 hp cam, not sure if has smaller valves, makes more HP with the factory exhaust manifolds vs the Ram Rod. Olds built the RamRod to run with headers and due to the large cam and good breathing, it falls hard when coupled to the really ugly log manifolds. There is an aftermarket W30 replica manifolds made for the 350 engine. Anyway she runs low 13’s I pure stock with 3.73 gears, she’s faster with 4.33 but likes to drive the car on the street.

Back to the article, also note there is no W-31 script. So this car almost for sure is their long term car that had a Ram Rod engine installed in it probably 6 months before they did the 70 and 1/w annual, the car had headers and was dyno tuned. The 1/4 mile time maybe the exact time they got capped up in 1969 with the 3.73. Long story short, this is a Frankenstein article. Car life got 14.9 out their W31, notated the handling was great.

[rocket403]

The W31 used the same exhaust manifolds as the standard 2 bbl 350 with single exhaust, you would think that Olds with all their great ideas would think that maybe they could have had a upgrade on their options list for exhaust manifolds. They had the best Ram Air setup, partnered with Hurst for some wild cars and options (duel gate etc.) Had one of the best handling Muscle Cars of the day and had one of the worst Exhaust Manifolds mainly on the Right hand Side LOL.

I'm in a love hate relationship though with the headers on Olds the headers on my 80 hug the starter I had to spend a lot of time with my engine on the stand fitting the headers around the starter I had to pinch in the pipes to get around the starter and fit in a heat shield and get room for header wrap, (never worked though) starter would only last couple years. Then to get the starter out you had to spend huge amount of time trying to get the header into a position to be able to get to the starter.

[oldman]

I ran a 440 Dart for close to 4 decades. It went the full gambit from stock exhaust manifolds, driver’s side was super restrictive, to fenderwell headers, back to hp manifolds, I believed I used a modified c body manifold on the driver’s side. It is a beautiful piece. I would never run headers on any classic car. I’d do the W30 remakes for the SBO and run 2.50 out back, use the new Borla lcrate” muffler... sounds good. A light weight rod piston, roller valve train under a complete stock looking W31, say 400hp at 6400 shift at 6800 thru manifolds. Cam would be high lift short duration single pattern.

https://www.supercarsunlimited.com/H...lds-d2841.aspx

Here is the C body manifold that fits 440 Darts:

https://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar...anifold.39446/

The actual 440 manifold, pictures don't do it justice, it is BAD.
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...nifolds.44139/

[rocket403]

When I put my 80 Cutlass together I started in 95 with a 307 and 2004r and upgraded the Exhaust at the same time Ran 15.25 at 89mph with that setup at the time there weren't many options for manifolds it was crap or headers so headers it was LOL

When I went with the 403 in 99 it was just a re and re of the engine kept the headers and the setup I had, I swore never to put full length headers on any car again LOL
I have put 5 starters on that car since the headers were added and the only way to get the headers out is undo the mounts and lift the engine up. So next time that happens I will give supercars a call but 350 US is 500 Can WTF.

[rocket403]

Originally Posted by oldman

I’d do the W30 remakes for the SBO and run 2.50 out back, use the new Borla lcrate” muffler... sounds good. A light weight rod piston, roller valve train under a complete stock looking W31, say 400hp at 6400 shift at 6800 thru manifolds. Cam would be high lift short duration single pattern.

The old adage there is not substitute for displacement is true with the 403 vs 350 I went with the biggest possible SBO, with my Trans setup 2800 stall and stage 2 shift kit in a GN 2004r tans it shifts hard and I get up into 6000 RPM's on many of the shifts 1-2 and 2-3 are so hard and into 6000 plus RPM's. I had a top shop in the GTA that had a lot of Olds and Buick experience setup and Install the trans.

The Olds has spent more time in the last 10 years just sitting in the garage than on the road, it has only about 200km on it in that time. The Compression is one reason it will run on 94 octane but to run it hard need to run half and half race fuel and at over 5$ a Liter I just lost interest.

[rocket403]

Just looked up Muscle Car Confidential and 220$ Canadian WOW

[oldman]

I was not a cheap book. Day One is probably better and it was petty cheap.

[rocket403]

Going to Order day One but I would buy something for my truck R/T or olds before I spend 250 after shipping on a book

[oldman]

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AqDfvKH_2oJayUHvm85spoXWXT-2

Hope this works. This Pure Stock Olds is making about 320 net HP thru the stock logs.

[rocket403]

Nice write up what was that from?

[oldman]

Muscle Car Review Feb 2016, has an orange olds on the cover, I think the whole issue is about W30 and W31 cars. Pure coincidence that the 310 HP Olds did so well in the Pure Stock Drags that year.
https://www.psmcdr.com/pastyears

Technically I don't know if the husband and wife owner could be running the cam they have. Since their ride is an auto and I believe (one again I'm not an Olds guy) only the manual had the hotter cam. The auto went to the same cam as the 2bbl because it could be ordered with A/C etal. Could be wrong what do you know about the cam size?

https://1drv.ms/w/s!AqDfvKH_2oJayT0i...Eqb5v?e=Rtoyxi

This is Hungtington's calculations for gross numbers, dyno headers, no air filter, no or only one belt (for water pump), everything set to specs (blue printed). 350 HP for the Olds so 1 HP per cid. In his book American Supercar (he loves the Ram Rod), at 310 HP, page 133. Here is the blurb:
"Olds Engineers wanted to use the big port heads on the 350 block for the w31 but dyno test showed these ports were too big for smooth street running and high performance cam timing. …. it was one of the more brilliant engineering combinations to out of the supercar period. :

I'll scan the entry. Please do me a favor and make sure the links can conly browse that one portion of my shared drive. I'm getting use to this stuff and I'm old.

[L78toLT1]

Oldman, do you have the hotrod magazine test of the '68.5 428CJ Mustang where they proclaim it to be "the fastest running pure stock in the history of man"? I remember that article but don't remember the numbers they were knocking down.