Camaro ZL1 Electronic Limited Slip Differential Drag Calibration - Page 6

17CamaroZL1 · 01-16-2019, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

I hear what you are saying, however if you followed Travis's thread. He always thought the eLSD was giving false readings to the ECU. Thought the process might be flawed and that's why the car bogged. I'm hoping MAYBE this will fix the wrong readings in the eLSD. Who knows!!

It would be awesome if it fixes the bog for the manual guys. Travis's findings seemed to point more to the traction control system which just happened to display wheel slip % on the eLSD display. Not really anything wrong with eLSD itself, but who knows what this tune might bring.

Fraxum · 01-17-2019, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

I hear what you are saying, however if you followed Travis's thread. He always thought the eLSD was giving false readings to the ECU. Thought the process might be flawed and that's why the car bogged. I'm hoping MAYBE this will fix the wrong readings in the eLSD. Who knows!!

This ^ Let's hope.......

Badmojo · 01-19-2019, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraxum

This ^ Let's hope.......

Convertibles without the eLSD still have the bog. You can hope in one hand and crap in the other.......see which one fills up first.

Shorty45 · 01-19-2019, 10:18 PM

When we were pushing all that data to Travis in 2017, we felt that it was part of the algorithms associated with Torque Management. But we did hypothesize eLSD could be a factor. See his threads covering this for reference...hope it helps!

fosterelli · 01-20-2019, 08:48 AM

Sorry if I missed it, but do new vehicles have this calibration built-in from the factory?

IneedAZ · 01-22-2019, 06:16 AM

Anyone done it yet? Noticed anything?

Fraxum · 01-23-2019, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badmojo

Convertibles without the eLSD still have the bog. You can hope in one hand and crap in the other.......see which one fills up first.

And so did my '16 standard SS M6. And there it is not the ECU either.

Aliveguy5 · 01-23-2019, 01:44 PM

I'm sure it's going to take a moment to gather data but for those of us with a tune I'd like to see if this is a worthwhile "update".

7WSM · 01-23-2019, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IneedAZ

Anyone done it yet? Noticed anything?

This Friday I'll bring my car back into work and get the programming done. Also going to the track that night too since it will be in the low 50s, high 40s. About the same temps and DA I ran my 11.2 this past November. If it 60' in the 1.6s, I would be pretty happy.

IneedAZ · 01-23-2019, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7WSM

This Friday I'll bring my car back into work and get the programming done. Also going to the track that night too since it will be in the low 50s, high 40s. About the same temps and DA I ran my 11.2 this past November. If it 60' in the 1.6s, I would be pretty happy.

Sweet! please keep us updated

Sooner Cole · 01-23-2019, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7WSM

Looks like TAC assigned the calibration to my VIN so I can now get it updated. I'll bring the car in next Monday as rain is forecasted for the rest of this week.

Any Updates?

17CamaroZL1 · 01-24-2019, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7WSM

This Friday I'll bring my car back into work and get the programming done. Also going to the track that night too since it will be in the low 50s, high 40s. About the same temps and DA I ran my 11.2 this past November. If it 60' in the 1.6s, I would be pretty happy.

Looking forward to your results.

travislambert · 01-24-2019, 08:32 PM

I originally thought the eLSD had something to do with the bogging problem, but I quickly abandoned that theory. By the time I had finished researching, I was convinced there were two primary causes.

1. A design flaw in the traction control logic
2. Slow recovery from torque management

The traction control system uses a percentage to quantify the wheel slip. At really low speeds, a very small amount of slip can result in a very high wheel slip percentage. This is where I believe the algorithms were falling short and causing most of the drive-ability/launching issues.

As the clutch is released, if the tires slip even a little, the wheel slip percentage spikes which triggers the ECM to basically kill the engine to regain traction. Of course, if the front tires are turning at 0.5 MPH and the rear tires are turning at 2 MPH, that's only 1.5 MPH of slip which isn't really a problem. However, as a percentage, that's 400% which was causing the traction control system to respond. I confirmed this problem with data logging and there is no doubt in my mind these cars have an issue.

I was told that GM contracted the traction control system for this vehicle (from Bosch maybe?). Since it wasn't something they had developed in-house, this complicated the process for getting a fix developed. Ultimately, some bean counter decided it wasn't worth it so they just took the position that their customers simply needed more practice with the clutch... which is a lot like saying a person needs more practice in order to make money playing video poker. It's impossible to beat the software.

On the off chance you get a great start to a launch, you've maximized the stresses on the driveline. The additional stresses on the driveline would just increase the counter response from the torque management system. Of course, the driveline protections are nice, but I always felt like the biggest problem was how slowly the car would recover. It seemed like it took forever for the engine to work its way back up to its full power potential.

I doubt anything eLSD related would fix the problems that I investigated, but there's always a chance other problems could be addressed as part of this update. I'm glad Chevrolet is at least giving us something to try, and I'm hopeful we'll see some measurable improvements in 60' times.

Personally, I've moved on from trying to launch the car and I won't be installing the update. I've since been enjoying the car on the road course where I feel it really shines.

waterman · 01-24-2019, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travislambert

I originally thought the eLSD had something to do with the bogging problem, but I quickly abandoned that theory. By the time I had finished researching, I was convinced there were two primary causes.

1. A design flaw in the traction control logic
2. Slow recovery from torque management

The traction control system uses a percentage to quantify the wheel slip. At really low speeds, a very small amount of slip can result in a very high wheel slip percentage. This is where I believe the algorithms were falling short and causing most of the drive-ability/launching issues.

As the clutch is released, if the tires slip even a little, the wheel slip percentage spikes which triggers the ECM to basically kill the engine to regain traction. Of course, if the front tires are turning at 0.5 MPH and the rear tires are turning at 2 MPH, that's only 1.5 MPH of slip which isn't really a problem. However, as a percentage, that's 400% which was causing the traction control system to respond. I confirmed this problem with data logging and there is no doubt in my mind these cars have an issue.

I was told that GM contracted the traction control system for this vehicle (from Bosch maybe?). Since it wasn't something they had developed in-house, this complicated the process for getting a fix developed. Ultimately, some bean counter decided it wasn't worth it so they just took the position that their customers simply needed more practice with the clutch... which is a lot like saying a person needs more practice in order to make money playing video poker. It's impossible to beat the software.

On the off chance you get a great start to a launch, you've maximized the stresses on the driveline. The additional stresses on the driveline would just increase the counter response from the torque management system. Of course, the driveline protections are nice, but I always felt like the biggest problem was how slowly the car would recover. It seemed like it took forever for the engine to work its way back up to its full power potential.

I doubt anything eLSD related would fix the problems that I investigated, but there's always a chance other problems could be addressed as part of this update. I'm glad Chevrolet is at least giving us something to try, and I'm hopeful we'll see some measurable improvements in 60' times.

Personally, I've moved on from trying to launch the car and I won't be installing the update. I've since been enjoying the car on the road course where I feel it really shines.

Welcome back TL. Long time, no see.

FWIW, your insights and research are always appreciated.

01-19-2019, 10:18 PM	#74
Shorty45 Drives: 2017 Summit White ZL1, M6 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Panama City, Fl Posts: 148 View My Garage	When we were pushing all that data to Travis in 2017, we felt that it was part of the algorithms associated with Torque Management. But we did hypothesize eLSD could be a factor. See his threads covering this for reference...hope it helps! __________________ 2011 Dodge Ram 1500 Longhorn Laramie 1966 Chevelle SS 396

01-22-2019, 06:16 AM	#76
IneedAZ Drives: 2017 ZL1 A10 & 2021 BMW M340i x Dr Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tampa Posts: 5,111 View My Garage	Anyone done it yet? Noticed anything? __________________ Sold 2012 2LT RS 12.3@112 old setup Sold 1967 Camaro Pro Street. Ran 10's mild BB on NOS. 2017 HyperBlue ZL1 A10 Born 3/17/17Delivered 4/08/17 2020 Build: Mag2650, BTR Stage2, NW103, BG, 14% lower, 90mm upper, ARH 2" Long system w/no cats, SW Legend mufflers. 807hp/762tq on 93 gas and 848hp/792tq on e47 Sold 2018 (Go Mango) Dodge Charger Daytona 392 Daily Driver Daily Driver 2021 BMW M340i Xdrive

01-20-2019, 08:48 AM	#75
fosterelli Drives: 2019 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 129	Sorry if I missed it, but do new vehicles have this calibration built-in from the factory?

01-23-2019, 01:44 PM	#78
Aliveguy5 Drives: 2017 Red Hot ZL1 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 216	I'm sure it's going to take a moment to gather data but for those of us with a tune I'd like to see if this is a worthwhile "update".

01-24-2019, 08:32 PM	#83
travislambert Drives: '17 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Fairmont, WV Posts: 1,567	I originally thought the eLSD had something to do with the bogging problem, but I quickly abandoned that theory. By the time I had finished researching, I was convinced there were two primary causes. 1. A design flaw in the traction control logic 2. Slow recovery from torque management The traction control system uses a percentage to quantify the wheel slip. At really low speeds, a very small amount of slip can result in a very high wheel slip percentage. This is where I believe the algorithms were falling short and causing most of the drive-ability/launching issues. As the clutch is released, if the tires slip even a little, the wheel slip percentage spikes which triggers the ECM to basically kill the engine to regain traction. Of course, if the front tires are turning at 0.5 MPH and the rear tires are turning at 2 MPH, that's only 1.5 MPH of slip which isn't really a problem. However, as a percentage, that's 400% which was causing the traction control system to respond. I confirmed this problem with data logging and there is no doubt in my mind these cars have an issue. I was told that GM contracted the traction control system for this vehicle (from Bosch maybe?). Since it wasn't something they had developed in-house, this complicated the process for getting a fix developed. Ultimately, some bean counter decided it wasn't worth it so they just took the position that their customers simply needed more practice with the clutch... which is a lot like saying a person needs more practice in order to make money playing video poker. It's impossible to beat the software. On the off chance you get a great start to a launch, you've maximized the stresses on the driveline. The additional stresses on the driveline would just increase the counter response from the torque management system. Of course, the driveline protections are nice, but I always felt like the biggest problem was how slowly the car would recover. It seemed like it took forever for the engine to work its way back up to its full power potential. I doubt anything eLSD related would fix the problems that I investigated, but there's always a chance other problems could be addressed as part of this update. I'm glad Chevrolet is at least giving us something to try, and I'm hopeful we'll see some measurable improvements in 60' times. Personally, I've moved on from trying to launch the car and I won't be installing the update. I've since been enjoying the car on the road course where I feel it really shines.

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