[big dave]

Only people like me and a few others really care what a car runs bone stock. The Hellcat came with a small tire, yes, but there's a quick remedy for that. You put a tire on the Hellcat and they're significantly quicker than the ZL1. Put a tire on the ZL1, it doesn't make much of a difference from what it runs on the stock tires. I predict the Redeye will run 10.3s on tire... so what if it's heavy.

[FH212]

Originally Posted by big dave

Only people like me and a few others really care what a car runs bone stock. The Hellcat came with a small tire, yes, but there's a quick remedy for that. You put a tire on the Hellcat and they're significantly quicker than the ZL1. Put a tire on the ZL1, it doesn't make much of a difference from what it runs on the stock tires. I predict the Redeye will run 10.3s on tire... so what if it's heavy.

He has a good point.......

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by big dave

Only people like me and a few others really care what a car runs bone stock. The Hellcat came with a small tire, yes, but there's a quick remedy for that. You put a tire on the Hellcat and they're significantly quicker than the ZL1. Put a tire on the ZL1, it doesn't make much of a difference from what it runs on the stock tires. I predict the Redeye will run 10.3s on tire... so what if it's heavy.

A 800 horsepower anything should be in the low 10's and the redeye is going to be a monster. But driving a heavyweight on anything other than a multiple lane hi-way on a daily basis is cumbersome.
Give me a 100 horse less and 600 lbs less any day.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by Mcardenal

Let me preface what I will continue to argue about with the following statement;
I love Dodge Challengers, Ford Mustangs, BMW, Porsche, etc.....Have owned many of these brands. And if I could I would have one of each.
BUT Any discussion of Horse Power needs to address weight.
"Beating a dead horse" I know.
POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO.....
And the bottom line to me is that HP to pounds, the GM family has the Dodges beat.
The way I see it, its Dodge playing catch up.
Now if Dodge really wanted to kick everyone's ass they would find a way to make the Challenger 400-600 pounds lighter. But keeping the looks (love the Challenger Sheetmetal, always have). I think they have addressed the traction issue with the widebody.

Check out your local drag strips, you are in for a shock. While close in bone stock form the game changes with sticky tires.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

A 800 horsepower anything should be in the low 10's and the redeye is going to be a monster. But driving a heavyweight on anything other than a multiple lane hi-way on a daily basis is cumbersome.
Give me a 100 horse less and 600 lbs less any day.

I'd like both please.

[Mcardenal]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

Check out your local drag strips, you are in for a shock. While close in bone stock form the game changes with sticky tires.

Wouldn't that apply to both?
I have been to the local drag strip and have personally beat (every time) my buddy in his Hellcat (non wide body) by a wide margin. Him, with the stock 275 Pirellis and me with the stock 305 Goodyear. What if we both strap 315 Mickey Thomason's on the back? I guess i can see his times improving, but wouldn't mine also?

I will stick to my guns on Power to weight ratio.

[waterman]

Amen.
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/images/attach/jpg.gif

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by Faster12

Since I haven't seen anybody go full crybaby mode, I figured I would be the first. WTF GM?!!!!! Now that I've gotten that off my chest let's look at some facts:

2018 Dodge Demon: 3,000 US units, $86,000 MSRP, 808-840hp (ECM/Fuel dependent)

2019 Hellcat: Non-limited production, $58,000 MSRP (reduced from last year), 717hp

2019 Hellcat Redeye: Non-limited production, $69,000 MSRP, 797hp.

2019-20 GT500: 700+hp and possible 10spd auto.

What a time to be a car guy! But more importantly, not the best time for Chevy to compete. I love the euro centric, world beater that the Camaro has become, but man, you can't go picking on Germany because you're getting your butt kicked at home. I have some serious doubts about a 2019 ZL1 joining my stable now.

I'd like to know from some of the insiders we've got here; what can OR will Chevy do with this information? Yet again we've seen mid-cycle refreshes that don't result in any performance increases, while both of their competitors have done the opposite. The hellcat got a 10hp bump due to increased airflow, and the mustang got a 25hp bump. I get the straight line crown is not Chevy's focus, but man o man this is AMERICA! Put some more ponies under that hood!

Dodge Demon is a stupid car IMO, I'd never put that money down for a single purpose car. I personally could care less about drag racing on a strip.

Hellcat is good value, it really stands out as a muscle car. I wouldn't buy it due to old chassis and other interior quality issues. And the ones at local dealers in my area are all around 70 if not more. ZL1's can be had for low 60's.

GT500 is going to be a fast car but I don't care for Mustangs. ZL1 is a better looking car IMO. Also be ready for hefty markups, you probably won't find many for less than 80K. If it even comes out. It's taking forever.

ZL1 has best value, best looking, most unique feeling multipurpose sports car in the segment with an spectacular engine and improved cooling compared to previous Z06's. It looks the most aggressive of the segment. I saw it at my local dealer for the first time today and was taken away by it's menacing look. Looked more aggressive than the Z06 too.

I do like straight line speed but like I said I don't care for HP wars. I also don't care much about popular opinion. Camaro is known to get hate by the car community and they would suggest anything but the Camaro in the segment. Just like the types who recommend the iPhone over everything else. I do my own research and I always have to get my value out of something I buy. I wouldn't pay over sticker for GT500 or Hellcat. Even if the GT500 will have best resale value.

So I see no reason for GM to worry, the ZL1 has proven itself to be the best value multipurpose sports car with world class looks. It attracts much interest and a Hellcat is not going to take away from that. GT500 will probably push consumers to go for the ZL1 once they see the markups on it, lol.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Mister Will

If you want more horsepower, you have an option at Chevrolet.

You also have to shell out 60K more for said option. You could almost buy 2 ZL1's at MSRP for the entry price of a ZR-1. I also don't think people would cross shop a ZL-1 and a ZR-1, how many people cross shopped a Hellcat with an ACR?

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

Dodge Demon is a stupid car IMO, I'd never put that money down for a single purpose car. I personally could care less about drag racing on a strip.

Hellcat is good value, it really stands out as a muscle car. I wouldn't buy it due to old chassis and other interior quality issues. And the ones at local dealers in my area are all around 70 if not more. ZL1's can be had for low 60's.

GT500 is going to be a fast car but I don't care for Mustangs. ZL1 is a better looking car IMO. Also be ready for hefty markups, you probably won't find many for less than 80K. If it even comes out. It's taking forever.

ZL1 has best value, best looking, most unique feeling multipurpose sports car in the segment with an spectacular engine and improved cooling compared to previous Z06's. It looks the most aggressive of the segment. I saw it at my local dealer for the first time today and was taken away by it's menacing look. Looked more aggressive than the Z06 too.

I do like straight line speed but like I said I don't care for HP wars. I also don't care much about popular opinion. Camaro is known to get hate by the car community and they would suggest anything but the Camaro in the segment. Just like the types who recommend the iPhone over everything else. I do my own research and I always have to get my value out of something I buy. I wouldn't pay over sticker for GT500 or Hellcat. Even if the GT500 will have best resale value.

So I see no reason for GM to worry, the ZL1 has proven itself to be the best value multipurpose sports car with world class looks. It attracts much interest and a Hellcat is not going to take away from that. GT500 will probably push consumers to go for the ZL1 once they see the markups on it, lol.

That's part of what puzzles me so much in the sales threads. The Camaro's are such good cars, especially the ZL1. Since it has been released I have seen 2 ZL1's in the wild and one of them was pulling out of the Chevy Dealer. I see Hellcats at least once a week. I have seen maybe a dozen or so GT350's and 1 350R.

[wlsmoku]

Originally Posted by Mcardenal

Wouldn't that apply to both?
I have been to the local drag strip and have personally beat (every time) my buddy in his Hellcat (non wide body) by a wide margin. Him, with the stock 275 Pirellis and me with the stock 305 Goodyear. What if we both strap 315 Mickey Thomason's on the back? I guess i can see his times improving, but wouldn't mine also?

I will stick to my guns on Power to weight ratio.

no because the hellcat has a pretty narrow contact patch on the factory tires. good friend of mine put some good tires on his hellcat, 17" rears and skinnies up front and he is running 10.8X's in 5k DA. I have MT S/S on a set of MRR 19" wheels and I cans still only muster up 11.3X's in the same DA

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by shaffe

You also have to shell out 60K more for said option. You could almost buy 2 ZL1's at MSRP for the entry price of a ZR-1. I also don't think people would cross shop a ZL-1 and a ZR-1, how many people cross shopped a Hellcat with an ACR?

But it is an option. When people say, "why doesn't GM answer to the challenge from Dodge". Well, the ZR1 is your answer.

Regarding vehicle "type" and demographics, claiming that the Corvette is not in the same category as the Dodge Challenger and Charger. The answer is clearly that the Camaro ZL1 is in a different category and demographic from the Challenger and Charger. It would be like comparing a NASCAR vehicle to a NHRA vehicle.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Mister Will

But it is an option. When people say, "why doesn't GM answer to the challenge from Dodge". Well, the ZR1 is your answer.

Regarding vehicle "type" and demographics, claiming that the Corvette is not in the same category as the Dodge Challenger and Charger. The answer is clearly that the Camaro ZL1 is in a different category and demographic from the Challenger and Charger. It would be like comparing a NASCAR vehicle to a NHRA vehicle.

We might have to just agree to disagree. I see the ZL1 and Hellcat as about as direct comparable vehicles as you can get, and the entry price of the ZR-1 does not make it a viable option.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by Mcardenal

Wouldn't that apply to both?
I have been to the local drag strip and have personally beat (every time) my buddy in his Hellcat (non wide body) by a wide margin. Him, with the stock 275 Pirellis and me with the stock 305 Goodyear. What if we both strap 315 Mickey Thomason's on the back? I guess i can see his times improving, but wouldn't mine also?

I will stick to my guns on Power to weight ratio.

The OEM tire on the Camaro is a better tire than the tire on the Fiat thus giving the edge to the Camaro. With a sticky tire on both cars the Fiat will improve as the Nannies on the Camaro are crippling where traction is a concern. If you are racing against a manual trans car the game changes quickly as the Fiat A8 is a stellar transmission. The manual on either car is a severe handicap on a drag strip. I visit the drag strip about 48 times a year and it is rare to see a Camaro run a number anywhere near a 10. It may happen but is much more prevalent with the Fiat. That said, there are usually more Fiats at the track. Nothing I'd like to see more than a Camaro handing the Fiat it's ass regularly but it just isn't happening. One friend I have drives a Demon which appears temperamental but I've seen that car run several high 6.30's@108 mph in the 1/8th mile. That car is near 4200 lbs. He does run on a Mickey sticky radial.

[harrist5683]

Can't believe no one has mentioned mods. $6,000 for a 900WHP hellcat. $6,000 minimum - $10,000 for a 700WHP ZL1. The LT4 doesn't make additional power particularly well. Also you lose a lot more at the crank in an A10 ZL1, as compared to an A8 Hellcat.

Stock-for-stock (and same driver skill), a ZL1 with DR's stands no chance vs a Hellcat with DR's. Just is what it is.

Of course, if you're looking at tracks and road courses, you're fairly competitive. However I would assume those cross shopping ZL1 <-> Hellcat <-> GT500 are more concerned with roll racing / straight line over anything to do with a track.