[zipline]

I can tell you all from personal experience and that of many friends and relatives that it is German car "SUCKER" and not German car "snob". They got me twice, never, ever again. Sky high, unjustifiable, MSRPs, insane depreciation, ludicrous maintenance costs, poor reliability, and on.

[kwav8r]

Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt

If I had the money to burn, I'd just get a 911 Turbo S and be done with it.

However, to get something in the ballpark performance-wise at 1/3 of the cost? That's hard to pass up.

Genau.

Now, just need to blare "Country Roads" by John Denver with a good Pils.

[kwav8r]

Originally Posted by zipline

I can tell you all from personal experience and that of many friends and relatives that it is German car "SUCKER" and not German car "snob". They got me twice, never, ever again. Sky high, unjustifiable, MSRPs, insane depreciation, ludicrous maintenance costs, poor reliability, and on.

BMW or Audi??

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by trackrat70

I am considering the ZL1 for its performance, value and visceral experience. Since you mentioned the TTS here is my perspective. I ordered a '15 991 Turbo S, tracked it a couple of weeks after delivery, which was three months from order date, and drove it over 11,000 miles. Unbelievable speed, comfort and exquisite build quality. The best value for basically supercar performance that can be driven year round, but it is a very different experience from say the GT3, which is lighter and not as fast on a track, but the GT3 is a lot more fun. Fact is that the TTS just did not have enough soul. it does everything extremely well with no drama. Still the best value on the aftermarket, but you could get the Audi RS3 and a ZL1 for about the same money as a '14 or '15 991 TTS today. Moreover, the ZL1 will definitely run with or maybe ahead of the 991 TTS on a track, even if it would be several car lengths behind in a 0-60 sprint.

For sure, if you're going to track it all the time, the GT3 would be a better choice than the Turbo S. The couple times a year I'd make it to the track wouldn't really justify giving up the all-around ability of the Turbo S.

You may have just solved my conundrum though . . . just get the ZL1 and the Audi.

I wish.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by zipline

I can tell you all from personal experience and that of many friends and relatives that it is German car "SUCKER" and not German car "snob". They got me twice, never, ever again. Sky high, unjustifiable, MSRPs, insane depreciation, ludicrous maintenance costs, poor reliability, and on.

I haven't really had that experience. Before this car, I always bought CPO, and wound up with several thousand in my pocket when I wanted to trade it in for something else.

I bought this one new for about the same price as a ZL1, and I'm currently not upside down on it.

I had one of the CPO cars out of warranty for a bit, and maintenance costs are definitely a bit on the high side. However, I totally expect that, especially since that car was decently modded.

Reliability hasn't been that bad either. Yes, some models are certainly worse than others (E60 M5, heh), but I do a lot of research before I buy them, and typically know ahead of time what's going to break, about when it will break, and how much it will cost to fix.

[zipline]

Originally Posted by kwav8r

BMW or Audi??

BMW and Porsche.

[SliChillax]

Who the hell downgrades from a 2015 M3 to an Audi RS3? Anyway, to stay on topic. I found the Gen 6 Camaro interior much better than my M235i. There is real leather, none of that sensatec crap whatever it's called like in my BMW and there is leather in the dash, doors and the touch points are more pleasant overall. It's no comparison to an M3 with the full leather interior, but it's right there with an M3 with the normal interior.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by SliChillax

Who the hell downgrades from a 2015 M3 to an Audi RS3? Anyway, to stay on topic. I found the Gen 6 Camaro interior much better than my M235i. There is real leather, none of that sensatec crap whatever it's called like in my BMW and there is leather in the dash, doors and the touch points are more pleasant overall. It's no comparison to an M3 with the full leather interior, but it's right there with an M3 with the normal interior.

The only downgrade would be the interior as far as I'm concerned, which would be the case with the ZL1 as well.

The new RS3 has a better sounding motor with just as much hp/tq as the M3, and it can actually get all that power down. Tech is better, and it's a smaller package (size and weight) than the M3.

All in all, more of a sideways move, but something different than what I have, which is the only reason I'd get rid of the M3 in the first place.

I do agree about the 2 (and 3/4) series interiors. I don't even like the Dakota leather in those. The Merino leather in my M3 is great though.

[mr965]

I currently have an E92 M3 that I track exclusively. Coilovers and BBK. I love it on the track but miss having lowend torque. I got a ZL1 to alleviate the absence of torque. I really look forward to taking it on the track after breakin miles and fluid flushes. I can't wait to compare lap times to the M3.

The one thing I miss when driving the ZL1 is the lack of outward visibility. I read a good analogy that compares it to wearing a baseball cap low down to eyebrow level. Another is judging where the front wheels are. I've curbed a wheel already.

[MoreSpeed]

Originally Posted by zipline

I can tell you all from personal experience and that of many friends and relatives that it is German car "SUCKER" and not German car "snob". They got me twice, never, ever again. Sky high, unjustifiable, MSRPs, insane depreciation, ludicrous maintenance costs, poor reliability, and on.

I have had good luck with Porsche. My GT3 has hardly depreciated at all in 7 years. Maintenance hasn't been bad. Great reliability. The car is bullet proof. My earlier Porsche's depreciated more, but still not bad compared to most cars.

They are way more expensive, which gets hard to justify when there are cars like the ZL1 on the market.

[docw]

Originally Posted by MoreSpeed

I have had good luck with Porsche. My GT3 has hardly depreciated at all in 7 years. Maintenance hasn't been bad. Great reliability. The car is bullet proof. My earlier Porsche's depreciated more, but still not bad compared to most cars.

They are way more expensive, which gets hard to justify when there are cars like the ZL1 on the market.

I've had the same experience with my Porsches. My turbo s seems indestructible, maintenance hasn't been much of an issue, and I've found the service departments of the various Porsche dealers around here to be far better than that of BMW/merc when there is an issue. That being said... I agree they are getting too expensive. A base 911 carrera is now pushing $100k . IMO, the ZL1 is epic performance for the price.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Update:

You guys may have convinced me. I'm going Monday to pick one up, with any luck.

If it sucks, I'm blaming all of you.

Just kidding, thanks for the opinions.

[Artos]

I'm not worried...you will be thanking us soon enough.

German crow is tolerable with lots of sauerkraut & ketchup...it covers up the snob taste.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by Artos

German crow is tolerable with lots of sauerkraut & ketchup...it covers up the snob taste.

Hah!

I really have no issues with the M3 other than the way it sounds. The new motor is better in every way, but the old V8 sounded incredible. The V8 in the ZL1 with the SC, even better!

I'm sure I'll enjoy it.