[OddJack]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Tesla is in no way competing with Camaro for sales. Or was that a joke?

No it's not a joke, I say it does. Want to know why?

I myself considered both as my next car. Why is it so hard to imagine?

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by OddJack

No it's not a joke, I say it does. Want to know why?

I myself considered both as my next car. Why is it so hard to imagine?

Ok you can say it does but I think the amount of people that cross shopped those cars is probably statistically close to zero. I believe you did. I'm just saying it's not enough to make any significant sales difference.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by OddJack

No it's not a joke, I say it does. Want to know why?

I myself considered both as my next car. Why is it so hard to imagine?

Because they're not in the same segment or price range.

If you compare a $15,000 Focus and a $110,000 Z06 as your next car...does that mean they're competing?

[OddJack]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Ok you can say it does but I think the amount of people that cross shopped those cars is probably statistically close to zero. I believe you did. I'm just saying it's not enough to make any significant sales difference.

Probably statistically zero? Where did you get that statistics?

Sales of electrics are up over 40% since last year. Camaro, Mustang, Dodge, etc..are down. Those 40% has to come from somewhere. I am not saying all of them are coming from GM cars, but some of them are and it's not zero.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Because they're not in the same segment or price range.

If you compare a $15,000 Focus and a $110,000 Z06 as your next car...does that mean they're competing?

Who talked about Focus? I put Tesla as an example and it's very comparable.
Even 50K models, considering the fuel cost.


Having all of this said, you guys need to understand for any new product in the market there is a rise, a peak and a slump. This is true for every Product no matter how good. From iPad to scooters to Camaros. They all slump eventually. This is how the consumer market works. The dynamics of the slump, however, are not the same. For electronics it could be market saturation. For cars economic factors play a bigger role.

Demographics are another factor. As baby boomers have started to retire, they are more prone to buy a less noisy, more luxurious and comfortable car like Tesla. So, to understand the reasons, you guys need to look beyond your own circle of interests and age group. Hopefully this helps.

[Red Chief]

There's a million possibilities leading to why tastes have changed and much fewer people are buying sports cars these days.

I think the biggest factors are wages and culture. People are making less money in proportion to the cost of sports cars compared to past decades and cars are much less of a social tool in today's world. People use their smartphones to hook up instead of cruising down the main drag.

The upshot is it makes these cars all that more special. And women most definitely DO still like them.

[raptor5244]

The cost of cars has gone up a lot. The average price of a new car is like $33k now. Also, cars tend to last longer than ever before. Folks are hanging onto them for 10+ years now. However, I think the big change is that a majority of the younger generation just doesn't appreciate driving like the older generation does. Many young folks just view cars as appliances to get from a to b. Heavily congested roads sap all the fun out of driving and lot of folks just resort to Uber rather than enduring the cost of a car, insurance, gas, maintenance payments, etc. Back in the day, a car represented that awesome feeling of freedom and independence but with so much social networking and everything else to keep folks entertained nobody even needs to leave the house anymore. :-)

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

The cost of cars has gone up a lot. The average price of a new car is like $33k now. Also, cars tend to last longer than ever before. Folks are hanging onto them for 10+ years now. However, I think the big change is that a majority of the younger generation just doesn't appreciate driving like the older generation does. Many young folks just view cars as appliances to get from a to b. Heavily congested roads sap all the fun out of driving and lot of folks just resort to Uber rather than enduring the cost of a car, insurance, gas, maintenance payments, etc. Back in the day, a car represented that awesome feeling of freedom and independence but with so much social networking and everything else to keep folks entertained nobody even needs to leave the house anymore. :-)

I think you're right on the money.

[Fred25]

I believe it is a mistake to put younger folks in a box. They have the same costs we had when we were young they seam larger if it makes you feel special. Things cost more now and folks make more now simple inflation. What makes life more fun gets the money then and now. Certainly there are differences in technology preference but frankly I know I benefit from that, too. A Camaro today craps on yesterday Ferraris. I have bought Mustangs, Camaros, and Challangers the last 20 years because those were the cars I couldn't afford growing up. The car market will never be the same again. It will chronically change. Gas costs/ ecology vs Low Gas costs and independent performance fun is just changing naturally. Muscle cars are not the future. Manufacturers prove a couple of other issues that young consumers run from. To come out with a new car and then discount it 20 percent in 1 year tells even a dumb ass the cars are over priced and one shouldn't buy into such a situation. Us older folks who have saved their money to out live such crap. We do things out of choice and necessity is secondary. We need to enjoy great engineering achievements like todays Camaros. Hybrids are the near future and electrics/hydrogen cars are the future. Don't buy a Camaro today planning on driving it 30 years from now aint going to work. Some young folks are going to buy muscle cars, too which are on this forum. Most are not.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Fred25

I believe it is a mistake to put younger folks in a box. They have the same costs we had when we were young they seam larger if it makes you feel special. Things cost more now and folks make more now simple inflation. What makes life more fun gets the money then and now. Certainly there are differences in technology preference but frankly I know I benefit from that, too. A Camaro today craps on yesterday Ferraris. I have bought Mustangs, Camaros, and Challangers the last 20 years because those were the cars I couldn't afford growing up. The car market will never be the same again. It will chronically change. Gas costs/ ecology vs Low Gas costs and independent performance fun is just changing naturally. Muscle cars are not the future. Manufacturers prove a couple of other issues that young consumers run from. To come out with a new car and then discount it 20 percent in 1 year tells even a dumb ass the cars are over priced and one shouldn't buy into such a situation. Us older folks who have saved their money to out live such crap. We do things out of choice and necessity is secondary. We need to enjoy great engineering achievements like todays Camaros. Hybrids are the near future and electrics/hydrogen cars are the future. Don't buy a Camaro today planning on driving it 30 years from now aint going to work. Some young folks are going to buy muscle cars, too which are on this forum. Most are not.

30 years ago I put myself through college. My total tuition was about 7 or 8,000. That same college today, that gets you half of one semester. Many millennials are graduating college with debt equaling a Camaro or two.

Millennials are also much less interested in owning things like homes and cars. Not all, but enough that it is probably impacting sales of cars that 30 years ago had a plant in Norwood Ohio (now a mall) and Van Nuys California. Now that same car is built with 2 other cars in one plant.

[Bhobbs]

I'm 26 years old and I love nothing more than starting my 1LE every morning and backing out of the garage. I can't wait to do the same with my Chevelle, when I get it back on the road.

I think the cost of living and the cost of the vehicle itself are prohibitive to many people my age.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Fred25

I believe it is a mistake to put younger folks in a box. They have the same costs we had when we were young they seam larger if it makes you feel special. Things cost more now and folks make more now simple inflation. What makes life more fun gets the money then and now. Certainly there are differences in technology preference but frankly I know I benefit from that, too. A Camaro today craps on yesterday Ferraris. I have bought Mustangs, Camaros, and Challangers the last 20 years because those were the cars I couldn't afford growing up. The car market will never be the same again. It will chronically change. Gas costs/ ecology vs Low Gas costs and independent performance fun is just changing naturally. Muscle cars are not the future. Manufacturers prove a couple of other issues that young consumers run from. To come out with a new car and then discount it 20 percent in 1 year tells even a dumb ass the cars are over priced and one shouldn't buy into such a situation. Us older folks who have saved their money to out live such crap. We do things out of choice and necessity is secondary. We need to enjoy great engineering achievements like todays Camaros. Hybrids are the near future and electrics/hydrogen cars are the future. Don't buy a Camaro today planning on driving it 30 years from now aint going to work. Some young folks are going to buy muscle cars, too which are on this forum. Most are not.

I'm in the 20s.....and I've got to say...a lot of my peers are far more interested in the latest iGadget or something else electronic and fancy than they are in buying the bestest-model car.

Those that do seem to want to get into cars...aren't financially ready, yet...and it gets put off, and put off....until eventually, it's not a desire anymore.

Yet...I also teach High School....and I am pleased to report that lots of kids still take notice of cool cars. One kid, just today, was looking up the Cadillac CTS-V. And I regularly find a group of them huddled around my car when I leave the building, if i park it near the exit door...

So.......I think the interest among younger people is diminished, but still very strong. However, they are financially burdened more than young people of two and three decades ago. Admittedly...I find a lot of them just are clueless when it comes to managing money...but that's a different discussion.


On another note...if the Porsche 918, McClaren P1, LaFerarri, and cheaper things like the Acura NSX are any indication of what a manufacturer can do with a hybrid sports car? ....I think we'll be fine, for a while.

[backeddy]

Where are you guys getting these sky high prices from? I have received emails from dealers near by that are offering $12k off of a $42K MSRP 16SS's? You guys need to shop around! There are 150+ days of inventory and we are at the end of the year.....YUUUUGE! deals are available all over.

[SpookShow'84]

1991

Z/28 = $15.4k, average household income = $29k. 53% of the h.i.

2016

1SS = $36.3k, average household income = $56.5k. 55% of h.i.

I wonder if this is the price model they're using? Cost is about the same as it was 25 years ago. I'll talk myself into buying one yet!

[c4racer]

Not sure a z28 was $14.5K in 1991

I bought an iroc 305/5spd with a few performance options but basically a stripper otherwise. Pretty sure it was $18-19K range.