[2SS Capt]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

You're setting it wrong. Set e-brake first, let off brake (car may roll an inch before brake catches) then shift into park. That will avoid damage to the parking pawl in the tranny.

Also the sound is the servo from the brake activating. It's normal.

THIS!

Set e-brake, put car in neutral, release foot brake, put car in park...

Works fine, lasts a long time...

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

If your parking brake fails just put it in first or reverse gear. You can park it on an 80 deg. incline and it still ain't going anyhere. I put mine is first gear each time I park it anyway. I always have trust the trans to hold it more than a parking brake.

[Val Walkinshaw]

Honest question:
Why do people with an automatic trans use an epb?


Seems unnecessary once the vehicle is in park. I'm 40. In all my auto trans vehicles I've never used the parking break. Going down a hill in snow...that's what neutral is for. Much better than ABS for my driving style.

I use the epb sometimes with my manual but not always. Neutral, ignition off, shifter in first gear, done.

[3.8TransAM]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Actually costs more.

And not sure why you think an old school hand lever makes you feel better about parking your car down hill and really not clear how snow impacts it any more. Do you just pull even harder on your hand brake if there is snow?

The e-park brake simply locks the rear brakes. No cable to stretch or worry about. Just done. I think you guys just need to build your confidence with it.

But you bring up the only real point. If you aren't used to it, it can seem strange. An awful lot of new cars now come with an e-park brake. It enables a better package for the occupant. Also consider many cars had the old foot park brake and it saves that space as well.

There are so few people that actually need a hand brake for turns that OEMs are simply making use of the space in the console.

Also enables e-shift transmissions which the Camaro may get someday.

And that Hill Hold feature? I think that is the e-brake as well.

But no, OP, GM did not make a huge mistake. They just did something you don't like or more specifically, aren't used to yet. I suspect you will in time if this is your first car with the feature.

I agree with the OP, electronic parking brakes sucked. I was working on them long before most here. Amazingly out of a run with a bad batch of motors once upon a time they are pretty reliable. Just not a fan of more electronic crap to fail, because it will.


I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts its cheaper than manual parking brakes at this point. You're thinking in our cost, not in GMs cost. Same reason cars have power windows almost standard. 90k power is cheaper than making the other 10k manual due to the volume.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by WVaSS

Agree! HATE electronic parking brakes. Especially on a performance car like the Camaro. I'm sure it was a cost saving measure. Obviously it wasn't a deal breaker for me. But if my car were a daily driver that was going to see winter use it might have been. I can't imagine facing a long, steep, snow covered, downhill road without a proper handbrake. Plus for me it's just an ingrained part of parking a car. Pulling up on that handbrake lever, is just how it is done. Not to mention HANDBRAKE TURNS!

Originally Posted by WVaSS

Apologies. But that is exactly what I'm referring to. Descending a snow covered slick slope and depending on ABS to provide any useful assistance is, IMHO completely optimistic. Using a mechanical hand brake is a far safer and superior method of controlling your rate of descent and vehicle attitude. Again apologies for condescension. Also there are situations where a driver may need the handbrake for either stopping, or again adjusting the attitude or direction of the car. I don't like the electronic parking brake as it takes those tools out of my hands. It may well function to slow the car in a emergency but no way will it offer any useful control. Hey I bought the car knowing it and accepting that limitation. I still wouldn't want to drive it down a snowy hill relying on engine braking and ABS. Not knocking ABS, it's excellent and mostly does a far superior job at braking than I'm capable of. This is not true under snow and ice conditions.

An e-brake / parking brake operates only the rear brakes. Since far more than half of the stopping power for a vehicle comes from the front brakes, you get pretty much no help from the rears when they're used along. Do that on a slippery surface, and you're asking to lock them up and create a situation where you will have LESS control, not more.

As you mentioned, the controllers in cars can pulse a brake far more quickly than most people (race drivers have been shown to have better braking abilities than at least some of the ABS systems), but keep in mind that ABS isn't just a modulated application - there are sensors that are detecting lock-up at each wheel. No matter how good you are with an e-brake handle, you can't detect and respond to each rear wheel's specific condition individually.

Originally Posted by MovieGuy

What I don't like about it is you can't use it as a backup if your brakes ever go out like you could with the manual style.

I don't like that I don't have a way to teach tailgaters that they're following too closely without lighting up the brake lights. A quick, but firm, pull on a manual brake and they get real alert real quick, and you're gone once you hit the gas.

Originally Posted by irobles3680

Hi,

My e brake actually failed today, was literally driving when I got an alert on dash that my electronic e brake needed maintanance, I stop and tried to use e brake and nothing car kept moving forward, I drive a manual trans so I was scared as I was at work and couldn’t park car anywhere. After a few restarts car alert went off and enrage worked again, should I be concerned? Thinking about taking to dealer but I have a lot of aftermarket engine parts but nothing on brakes

If you're pointing uphill, first gear. Downhill, reverse.

Originally Posted by Silverado57

Motorcycles park in gear all the time without any kind of brake. Your car will be fine parked in gear.

I have no issues with the E Brake. In fact, I prefer it to using a pedal or lever. Welcome to the 21st century.

Motorcycles aren't a good comparison here. They are far lighter than a car or truck, which gives them far less mass to potentially be able to turn the engine over and move. Additionally, they have a "stick on the ground" in the case of the kickstand that can and does offer some additonal resistance to movement, especially in the forward direction.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

The owner's manual is not clear on this point - it only mentions
which could be either mechanical pressure via the e-Pbrake or hydraulic pressure in the service brake system (via the ABS system).

Your comment is in reference to the Hill Start Assist feature and whether it's done via the e-brake or something else (I added this because the comment you quoted didn't also come through). My guess is that it's done via the e-brake and not the hydraulic system for the following reasons:

- In my truck, the Hill Start Assist feature will -also- engage the brakes on my equipment trailer and those are electronically / electrically controlled.

- The hydraulic system would seemingly have to also apply brake pressure to the front brakes and that would likely be far more pressure than necessary to hold the vehicle until drivetrain movement is detected to be coming from the engine. You want "just enough" braking pressure to keep the car from rolling from this feature, and rear only (applied via e-brake) would seem to be more than enough.

Originally Posted by Val Walkinshaw

Honest question:
Why do people with an automatic trans use an epb?


Seems unnecessary once the vehicle is in park. I'm 40. In all my auto trans vehicles I've never used the parking break. Going down a hill in snow...that's what neutral is for. Much better than ABS for my driving style.

I use the epb sometimes with my manual but not always. Neutral, ignition off, shifter in first gear, done.

Have you ever parked on a steep incline, parked WITHOUT the use of a parking brake, and then tried to shift OUT of Park? The pressure on the transmission is significant when you have almost two tons of mass being held back by the parking pawl... Set the e-brake, shift to Park, release the brake pedal. On significant inclines, turn the wheels (uphill, left and downhill, right - reverse for the UK), let the car settle against the curb, set the e-brake, shift to park, release the brake pedal.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Val Walkinshaw

Honest question:

Why do people with an automatic trans use an epb?





Seems unnecessary once the vehicle is in park. I'm 40. In all my auto trans vehicles I've never used the parking break. Going down a hill in snow...that's what neutral is for. Much better than ABS for my driving style.



I use the epb sometimes with my manual but not always. Neutral, ignition off, shifter in first gear, done.

Two reasons:

- For a manual parking brake, if you don't use it for a long while, components may get stuck when you do need it. I can imagine something similar for electronic parking brakes.

- On a manual trans, turbocharged car, sometimes putting the car in a gear on an incline isn't enough due to the fact that turbocharged engines have lower compression ratio than NA engines, and that compression is what holds the car in place without a parking brake. I have seen on the Accord forum that some people had their manual 1.5T/2.0T Accord roll on an incline in gear.

Personally, I just wish there is a way to disengage the parking brake when the battery dies. Otherwise, a tow can be a pain if you battery is dead and you have your parking brake set.

Sent from toaster or something

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Personally, I just wish there is a way to disengage the parking brake when the battery dies. Otherwise, a tow can be a pain if you battery is dead and you have your parking brake set.

In thinking about this, I'm wondering why the tow operator couldn't connect a jumpstart pack or something to allow the system to disengage the brake and THEN tow it?

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Val Walkinshaw

Honest question:
Why do people with an automatic trans use an epb?

Because at least for the times when you're parked on a slope, the park sprag is put under load by the car wanting to roll down the slope. It's extra friction that needs to be physically overcome when shifting out of park, and unlike with a MT where you could nudge the car back up the slope you have no way of unloading the sprag.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Your comment is in reference to the Hill Start Assist feature and whether it's done via the e-brake or something else (I added this because the comment you quoted didn't also come through). My guess is that it's done via the e-brake and not the hydraulic system for the following reasons:

- In my truck, the Hill Start Assist feature will -also- engage the brakes on my equipment trailer and those are electronically / electrically controlled.

Do you know what the trailer brakes tie in to for their signal to actuate?

Use of the hydraulic system for hill start would not need to apply full hydraulic system design pressure. Simply maintaining the same line pressure that the driver was applying when he stopped would normally be sufficient.


Norm

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Do you know what the trailer brakes tie in to for their signal to actuate?

Use of the hydraulic system for hill start would not need to apply full hydraulic system design pressure. Simply maintaining the same line pressure that the driver was applying when he stopped would normally be sufficient.


Norm

The brakes are electric on the trailer, and the truck uses the OEM brake controller. I know that there is communication within the vehicle that allows the truck to know to apply braking voltage for the trailer at the same time as for the vehicle brakes, but I do not know if it's a pure electrical signal driven by the computer engaging Hill Start Assist or if there's some physical tie into the hydraulic braking system for the vehicle.

I agree that it doesn't have to apply any more than a basic amount of pressure to hold the vehicle as it's static and not moving. But, applying brake hold on only two wheels would seem to allow a smoother overall release once either "enough" drive power is sense to hold on its own or the slightest bit of forward movement is detected. If the latter, holding the front brakes AND the rear brakes might make that slight motion less possible to be created...

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by ember1205

In thinking about this, I'm wondering why the tow operator couldn't connect a jumpstart pack or something to allow the system to disengage the brake and THEN tow it?

That makes sense. I guess this is just me being paranoid.

To give the EPB some credit, it saves some interior space(which the Camaro needs) and it's great for brainfart moments when you forgot to release it before you get going.

[Alpha1BC]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Do you know what the trailer brakes tie in to for their signal to actuate?

Use of the hydraulic system for hill start would not need to apply full hydraulic system design pressure. Simply maintaining the same line pressure that the driver was applying when he stopped would normally be sufficient.


Norm

That's precisely how hill start assist works; holding the driver applied hydraulic pressure. Done that way because the park brake doesn't react fast enough to allow smooth transitions as most seem to have noticed if they try driving away with the park brake still applied. You also won't hear the park brake motors turning when you get into hill start assist.

Originally Posted by ember1205

In thinking about this, I'm wondering why the tow operator couldn't connect a jumpstart pack or something to allow the system to disengage the brake and THEN tow it?

If you have the right wires/connectors to hook up to the park brake motors you can absolutely do this with a jump pack or other battery, just make sure the polarity is correct before holding it on the terminals. The other option would be to take the motor off and manually release the park brake with the appropriate torx bit.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Alpha1BC

If you have the right wires/connectors to hook up to the park brake motors you can absolutely do this with a jump pack or other battery, just make sure the polarity is correct before holding it on the terminals. The other option would be to take the motor off and manually release the park brake with the appropriate torx bit.

That wasn't what I was suggesting...

I was specifically suggesting to hook up a jumpstart pack as if you were going to jump start the car. Once connected, and able to supply power to the vehicle, it would -seem- that would enable the electronic controls to be able to release the brake.

I would NEVER allow anyone to do what you are suggesting as it isn't something the motors were designed for and they could be damaged far too easily.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by HyperspaceTurd

I hate it because it's slow. For many, many years Ive been used to hopping in a car, start it, drop the parking brake and boogey on down the road. Cant do that with this car and it pisses me right off.

Actually the PB button does not need to be pushed to release. It will release automatically when you put in gear and hit the throttle. So you can still get in a boogey down the road.