[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It is, but a 11.25 1/4 is slow for a GT500. Just like a 13s 1/4 is slow for a ScatPack.

I don't really think that is slow for a bone stock GT500 under normal/average conditions. Magazine best times for a ZL1 are 11.4 while I would say the average for most users is about mid to high 11s. So if a regular driver can get am 11.25 out of a stock GT500 then that is pretty good. I would expect to see them running low to mid 11s bone stock which would put them just slower than a Hellcat on a tire.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Probably driver related, those GT500s have fat 315 tires do they not, and he got a 2 second short time. The fact that you got a 1.8 short time, assuming that you had street tires not drag tires, points to the track itself not being so bad.

It's alot harder to launch a 760hp car than a 480hp car on street tires.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

For me at least, lowering tire pressure has no effect. Run-flats have very stiff sidewalls. A couple years ago I was lowering my pressures after every run, wondering why I wasn’t getting improvement in 60’. Then it hit me like a freight train.

I am very impressed you can get a 1.8 60 foot on runflats though

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

It's alot harder to launch a 760hp car than a 480hp car on street tires.

Well, ZL1 has 305 street tires and 650 hp, and guys are reporting 1.7 short times for them. So the GT500 with 315 street tires and 760 hp should be able to run better than 2 second short times.

[s346k]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

It's alot harder to launch a 760hp car than a 380hp car on street tires.

corrected for accuracy.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by s346k

i believe most people:

a) don't know what their car should run
b) can't drive the car to its potential

neither of those mean just because everyone else was slow, you should be too

example: when i raced by car bone stock, here was the scenario

street night
bone stock 18 1LE
3940 lb raceweight (3720 car + 220 lb driver) i weighed the car (and myself)
da 2500'

car went 12.6 @ 115

there was a pray ported im/tb + rotofab a8 1ss car there,
it went 12.4 @ 114

also an a8 convertible with bolt ons/tune, made "470 whp". it went 12.2 @ 116

ive been drag racing various cars (and locations) for a long time. about the only time a car should be down 7+ mph is when the da is astronomical. otherwise there is a problem

maybe that track is uphill or something. i see a lot of underperforming cars come out of MI. maybe all you guys are going to the same tuner, idk.

I agree with this, a few nights ago at Bradenton it was hot and DA was around 2500. I was running consistent 12.5-12.6s full weight at 112-115 in an m6 1le. Slower than my best runs (deff not my slowest either lol) but most were slow that night, however the trap speed was mostly still there.

112 on a bolt on car is a little suspect imo.

Having said that I did have an arbitrary 110 trap speed on one of the 12.6 runs, so sometimes shit happens lol. You also see a ton of our muscle cars that should be low to mid 12 second cars not get out of the 13s, especially stick cars.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It is, but a 11.25 1/4 is slow for a GT500. Just like a 13s 1/4 is slow for a ScatPack.

13s is slow for an auto Scat.. I wouldn't say 11.25 is slow for a 500, just not the fastest or a sketchy hero time. Seems par with mag times if we use those as references.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Well, ZL1 has 305 street tires and 650 hp, and guys are reporting 1.7 short times for them. So the GT500 with 315 street tires and 760 hp should be able to run better than 2 second short times.

Yes the classic let's compare the hero times of one car to the random dudes times of another car.
Go find the GT500 hero times

Plus the Camaro is a better car so it hooks up better and a 650hp car is easier to get traction than a 760hp car. See how that works

Originally Posted by s346k

corrected for accuracy.

HUH? if you were trying to change my crank numbers to wheel numbers you kinda forgot about the Mustang

[s346k]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

HUH? if you were trying to change my crank numbers to wheel numbers you kinda forgot about the Mustang

i was being sarcastic. although i think even 480 crank is generous for the camaro at this point.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Yes the classic let's compare the hero times of one car to the random dudes times of another car.
Go find the GT500 hero times

Plus the Camaro is a better car so it hooks up better and a 650hp car is easier to get traction than a 760hp car. See how that works

Hero? Wrong on your part, because the hero short times for the ZL1 are actually the guys that have ran some 1.6 sec, as we did have 2 or 3 such reports on the forum. The specific reason that I said 1.7 short time is because 10 of the 17 owners visible in the bone stock ZL1 list with an A10 trans had 1.7 short times on their runs. Meaning, the majority did them.

Agree with the Camaro being a better car. However I don't think that the 650hp vs 760hp means as much with these 2 cars when launching as you are implying. I think if we examined how much torque each car is making at the launch rpm, we'd find the GT500 is not making more torque than the ZL1. I checked and in fact, the GT500 is making less torque at 4000rpm than the ZL1 is making at 3000rpm, according to rear wheel dynos that I've seen. Much less torque at 3000rpm for the Ford. Conclusion, the GT500 should probably be able to walk out of the hole (less brutal torque hitting the street tires at a standstill), and then as it really revs up, it should start pulling hard. Opposite situation of what you implied with your get traction with 760 hp comment, since it was specifically the short time that I was talking about with these cars being on street tires.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Hero? Wrong on your part, because the hero short times for the ZL1 are actually the guys that have ran some 1.6 sec, as we did have 2 or 3 such reports on the forum. The specific reason that I said 1.7 short time is because 10 of the 17 owners visible in the bone stock ZL1 list with an A10 trans had 1.7 short times on their runs. Meaning, the majority did them.

Agree with the Camaro being a better car. However I don't think that the 650hp vs 760hp means as much with these 2 cars when launching as you are implying. I think if we examined how much torque each car is making at the launch rpm, we'd find the GT500 is not making more torque than the ZL1. I checked and in fact, the GT500 is making less torque at 4000rpm than the ZL1 is making at 3000rpm, according to rear wheel dynos that I've seen. Much less torque at 3000rpm for the Ford. Conclusion, the GT500 should probably be able to walk out of the hole (less brutal torque hitting the street tires at a standstill), and then as it really revs up, it should start pulling hard. Opposite situation of what you implied with your get traction with 760 hp comment, since it was specifically the short time that I was talking about with these cars being on street tires.

While I agree with your torque points, there is a lot more to it. A big difference is the transmission, one being a torque converter, the other a DCT.

Anyway, drag racing 400HP+ cars on street tires is silly, at minimum, a second set of rear wheels with proper DRs, or slick is the only way to get a decent launch on cars at these power levels.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Yes the classic let's compare the hero times of one car to the random dudes times of another car.
Go find the GT500 hero times

Plus the Camaro is a better car so it hooks up better and a 650hp car is easier to get traction than a 760hp car. See how that works

The launch is a lot more than just peak hp ratings. The Camaro ZL1 has more torque, but less rear end multiplication than the GT500 (2.85 vs 3.73). However, 1st gear is so low in the ZL1 that the ZL1 sends more torque to the rear wheels than the GT500 in first gear which could technically make it harder to launch the ZL1:

1st gear peak torque delivered to the rear wheels (not taking into account drivetrain losses) for the ZL1 and GT500:

ZL1: 4.7 (1st gear ratio) x 2.85 x 650 ft-lbs = 8,707 ft-lbs
GT500: 3.14 (1st gear) x 3.73 x 625 ft-lbs = 7,320 ft-lbs

So, technically, the ZL1 is putting more torque to the rear wheels at peak torque ratings for both cars in 1st gear than the GT500, which could be argued that it makes it harder to get traction.

That said, the ZL1 has a better front/rear weight distribution (54/46, rounded), compared to the GT500 (56/44, rounded), and is lighter, thus, tilting the traction advantage to the ZL1 from a chassis standpoint. This is one reason why the Hellcats are so hard to get traction, since they have skinnier tires, much heavier, AND an even worse 57/43 weight distribution.

Originally Posted by s346k

i was being sarcastic. although i think even 480 crank is generous for the camaro at this point.

JMartin has bolt ons, so it's not unrealistic that he has 480 crank hp in this vert. SS.

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Hero? Wrong on your part, because the hero short times for the ZL1 are actually the guys that have ran some 1.6 sec, as we did have 2 or 3 such reports on the forum. The specific reason that I said 1.7 short time is because 10 of the 17 owners visible in the bone stock ZL1 list with an A10 trans had 1.7 short times on their runs. Meaning, the majority did them.

Agree with the Camaro being a better car. However I don't think that the 650hp vs 760hp means as much with these 2 cars when launching as you are implying. I think if we examined how much torque each car is making at the launch rpm, we'd find the GT500 is not making more torque than the ZL1. I checked and in fact, the GT500 is making less torque at 4000rpm than the ZL1 is making at 3000rpm, according to rear wheel dynos that I've seen. Much less torque at 3000rpm for the Ford. Conclusion, the GT500 should probably be able to walk out of the hole (less brutal torque hitting the street tires at a standstill), and then as it really revs up, it should start pulling hard. Opposite situation of what you implied with your get traction with 760 hp comment, since it was specifically the short time that I was talking about with these cars being on street tires.

Correct, the ZL1 is sending more torque to the rear tires than the GT500 in 1st gear at low and mid rpm ranges due to making slightly more torque (650 vs 625 ft-lbs) and a lower overall geared 1st gear. I don't know if the GT500 catches up at higher engine speeds or not...quick math to check:

Torque to rear tires at peak power in 1st gear:

ZL1: 4.7 (1st gear) x 2.85 x 533 ft-lbs (650 hp at 6,400 rpm) = 7,139 ft-lbs
GT500: 3.14 (1st gear) x 3.73 x 547 (760 hp at 7,300 rpm) = 6,406 ft-lbs

So the answer is...No, the GT500 never sends as much torque in 1st gear to the rear tires as the ZL1 (assuming similar drivetrain efficiency). Do the ZL1's chassis and weight distribution advantages offset the extra torque and make hooking up easier in the ZL1? I'm not sure.

Interesting thing to note is from peak torque to peak hp, the ZL1 drops by 18%, while the GT500 drops by only 12.5% - meaning a flatter high rpm torque curve with the Predator vs the LT4.

Anyway, that's some torque analysis for y'all.

[Martinjlm]

^^^

Forum needs a “like” button.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Hero? Wrong on your part, because the hero short times for the ZL1 are actually the guys that have ran some 1.6 sec, as we did have 2 or 3 such reports on the forum. The specific reason that I said 1.7 short time is because 10 of the 17 owners visible in the bone stock ZL1 list with an A10 trans had 1.7 short times on their runs. Meaning, the majority did them.

Agree with the Camaro being a better car. However I don't think that the 650hp vs 760hp means as much with these 2 cars when launching as you are implying. I think if we examined how much torque each car is making at the launch rpm, we'd find the GT500 is not making more torque than the ZL1. I checked and in fact, the GT500 is making less torque at 4000rpm than the ZL1 is making at 3000rpm, according to rear wheel dynos that I've seen. Much less torque at 3000rpm for the Ford. Conclusion, the GT500 should probably be able to walk out of the hole (less brutal torque hitting the street tires at a standstill), and then as it really revs up, it should start pulling hard. Opposite situation of what you implied with your get traction with 760 hp comment, since it was specifically the short time that I was talking about with these cars being on street tires.

That kid wouldn't know the first thing about launching a "760" HP car be it 760 crank or 760 to the wheels. The only thing he knows how to launch is his mouth. Which is why I blocked his ass over a year ago. It's easier to fight this Pandemic than it is trying to reason with him.

Looking at numbers alone (like he tried to do) is silly at best. It is an entire car with different engine styles that apply power in much different ways, different programming, trans and rear ratios, etc.

[s346k]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

JMartin has bolt ons, so it's not unrealistic that he has 480 crank hp in this vert. SS.

the cars make almost 480 crank from the factory.

and as much as i like the ZL1, i dont think there is much in comparison with a gt500. if i recall correctly, you were also the one comparing your bolt on gt mustang to ZL1s from 40-70 or whatever. my car ran 40-70 in <3 seconds and that included a shift (m6)