[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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Like you mentioned I wonder if the reliability and durability are the main reasons. Look how Chevy had to add heavy TM to the manual 650-hp ZL1 likely due to this reason. Ford will be coming in even harder with 700+hp.

This is a solid theory.

I would add that a manual transmission, at this power to weight ratio, is damn near useless if the goal isn't solely the road course. You don't need +700 HP in a manual shift, fun street or drag car because its not usable.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by hotlap

This is a solid theory.

I would add that a manual transmission, at this power to weight ratio, is damn near useless if the goal isn't solely the road course. You don't need +700 HP in a manual shift, fun street or drag car because its not usable.

HAHAHAHA...neither is 600+ usable on the street, but I am very glad Chevy gave it a 3rd pedal.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

This is what I'm wondering. The previous GT500 was manual trans only. Hellcats have 707 and now 717 HP and a manual option. ZLE was manual only up until now. Vipers were manual only. So all these high HP and high performance cars with the option for a manual trans and Ford decides not to include it in the lineup? I wonder if it does come down to reliability and durability. Because looking at it, the Demon and RE are auto only as well. So perhaps the autos cannot reliable and safely handle much more than what the Hellcats put out. Or maybe it's a safety thing...like they're worried about someone losing control in one of these cars.

It doesn't seem to me that Ford has everything ironed out just yet with this car. Might it have been better for them to skip this Gen and put it out early in the S650 with everything worked out? Either way the more I see from them the more I'm shying away from potentially buying one.

Hmm, I don't know bout all that. The manual trans would have made it a bit cheaper and more appealing to a lot of diehards. I can't see them deciding that it isn't a good financial decision especially when they're all gonna sell anyway. Remember, this is a car that will command markups. So I doubt this is the reason.

This will upset some people, but what do they have to lose by releasing the GT500 even if it isn't ready? They did that to the GT350. Had to refresh in 2017, giving all cars coolers etc.....that should not have been something that showed itself in consumer's cars, it should have been caught in R&D and addressed prior to releasing even 1 car. Unacceptable.....but did it matter? People, some not knowing better and others not being able to help themselves, gobble them up as if they're performance matches their price and like they are not going to grenade or catch fire.

This car will sell regardless, and those that love Ford wont demand any better no matter how bad it is.

For the record, I fully expect this car to be fully sorted and ready for battle, but if not...the above will be repeated anyway.

[brap999]

Originally Posted by oldman

I think we can all say we don't live like Ghandi, and if we did, well.. at least for me I'd be a whole lot skinnier..

As stated 3 pages ago, IMO the GT500 is good looking and the new "auto" is going to put this into the win. No way I'm buying a new one... 10 years from now a 40K mile version sounds affordable. I'll note the 350s and other Shelby cars seem to selling for pennies on the dollar vs my son is looking for a low mile Lightning...

I had a 2000 lightning back in the day. It was plagued with engine problems, just FYI. If I recall one issue was spark plugs blowing out of the head. With that said I do miss it everytime I see another one on the road, it was a fun truck

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by brap999

I had a 2000 lightning back in the day. It was plagued with engine problems, just FYI. If I recall one issue was spark plugs blowing out of the head. With that said I do miss it everytime I see another one on the road, it was a fun truck

Funny you say that, out of the few Lightnings I have seen lately, none had running engines.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

That pretty red biotch. Is a keeper. If you get bored . You can always change the blower to a big centri or turbos and rule lanes 9 & 10.

This! ^ What I was thinking this also. Does what a "stock" car can do really matter anymore?

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

More likely a bean counter decided it wasn’t worth the expense. Of having both transmissions in a car that will see limited sales.

And the manual is dying out. You can't even buy a manual in the new BMW 3 series any more. I was manual only since my teenage years until last year. And in the past manuals on the street were the fastest cars. Now they live in the internet "slow" lane.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I would not be surprised to see LT5 in a Camaro, but I wouldn’t expect it in Gen 6. It’s okay for Camaro to share an engine with Z06. Not so much ZR1. When ZR1 finishes its run, LT5 becomes a “free agent” and can land in a number of places. A Cadillac? Like CT5-V? Or Escalade-V? Or a Cadillac sports car? Definitely a Camaro. But ZR1 has to be dormant for that to happen. We’re talking 2021-22. And that would be likely timing for CA7.

That is along the lines of what I have been saying the threads where people want the LT5 in the camaro. My view has been its going to be a ZR-1 Exclusive

Originally Posted by hotlap

I looked up the 2018 volume for Aplha (Camaro/CTS/ATS) and it was ~800 units less than Mustang.

GM needs Camaro as long as they want to be in the high end coupe/sedan segment with Cadillac. Mustang is rumored to share a SUV chassis (right?). Mustang could very well de-emphasis performance. Ala Mustang II.

This is why I smh with all the Camaro will be discontinued celebrations. This whole segment is underperforming and none will survive to see 2028 at 2018 volumes.

Someone much smarter than me chimed in on this move. But either way with CTS and ATS going away, I don't think you could argue that Camaro volume will become more important for now for Alpha-II

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Actually, this will be a good move for Ford. There will likely be no compromise at all sharing the platform with utilities. More modern body frame integral architectures are very adaptable to different "top hats". Think Audi A7 / A8 (including S7 and RS7) and Audi Q7. Same platform. No compromises.

Much smarter than me lol

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Things just got very interesting. It looks like GM added the A10 trans as an available option on the ZLE!!!

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...L3SFBXVATu8IUM

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/20...3SVu-bJSdeLn7Y

Saw that. Makes me wonder if the GT500 carbon is going to be close or faster than the ZLE and GM actually responded. they have been adamant in the past that the 1LE is a manual trans only option. Something obviously forced them to change their stance.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

FWIW, the 10AT in the ZL1 / ZLE is different than the 10AT in the Mustang and Camaro SS. Same basic design, but heavier duty. And ironically, it was the first 10AT to make it to market. I was guiding Al O.'s team through the NAIAS in 2016 and was showing them the Ford F150. I told them that the F150 was going to be the first vehicle to get the new GM / Ford 10 speed. Al pulled me off to the side and said "No they won't. We'll get there first with the ZL1". I asked him how that was the case when Ford was lead on the RWD design (GM was lead on the FWD 9-spd). He explained that both companies were manufacturing their own and that gave GM the leeway to develop a heavier duty version of the trans that did not need to be shared with Ford. That's what launched in the ZL1. A few months before the 10AT launched in F150. Of course, he told me to keep that quiet. This is actually the first time I've ever mentioned it.

Martin I am not one to question you as you were there and I wasn't LOL. But IIRC Didn't the Raptor actually get released before the ZL1 though?

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I wonder the reason Ford chose not to give the GT500 a manual option.

hotlap said it best IMO

Originally Posted by hotlap

This is a solid theory.

I would add that a manual transmission, at this power to weight ratio, is damn near useless if the goal isn't solely the road course. You don't need +700 HP in a manual shift, fun street or drag car because its not usable.

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That is along the lines of what I have been saying the threads where people want the LT5 in the camaro. My view has been its going to be a ZR-1 Exclusive



Someone much smarter than me chimed in on this move. But either way with CTS and ATS going away, I don't think you could argue that Camaro volume will become more important for now for Alpha-II



Much smarter than me lol



Saw that. Makes me wonder if the GT500 carbon is going to be close or faster than the ZLE and GM actually responded. they have been adamant in the past that the 1LE is a manual trans only option. Something obviously forced them to change their stance.



Martin I am not one to question you as you were there and I wasn't LOL. But IIRC Didn't the Raptor actually get released before the ZL1 though?



hotlap said it best IMO

I'm not Martin, But I thought that being released to the media and launched/released to the market it's not the same lol

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

I'm not Martin, But I thought that being released to the media and launched/released to the market it's not the same lol

I believe the zl1 came out first, but the a10 came after Raptor for consumers. The a10 was a few months behind the m6.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by shaffe

.....Martin I am not one to question you as you were there and I wasn't LOL. But IIRC Didn't the Raptor actually get released before the ZL1 though?



.......

You recall correctly

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

I'm not Martin, But I thought that being released to the media and launched/released to the market it's not the same lol

That is true, but I believe the Raptor was available with A10 before the ZL1 was available with A10

Originally Posted by 13vertss

I believe the zl1 came out first, but the a10 came after Raptor for consumers. The a10 was a few months behind the m6.

^^ This

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

This! ^ What I was thinking this also. Does what a "stock" car can do really matter anymore?

To guys like me and you? Not one bit. The magazine racers however live for that sh!t.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

To guys like me and you? Not one bit. The magazine racers however live for that sh!t.

But, there are probably 100 times more people who keep there cars stock, then do what you do.

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

But, there are probably 100 times more people who keep there cars stock, then do what you do.

Your absolutely right. And 99% of those people dont have any idea what the car they own will do. With them behind the wheel. Just easier to say. My car runs 11s because one dude on the forum claimed he did. Or Car & Driver lapped Virginia international in under 3 minutes in a car just like mine. What Randy Posbt does. And what I would do on a road course. Would be wildly different.