[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

So now every single one of my friend's experience with their own cars is irrelevant because I don't race for trophies or money?

Yea, I don't really care bro.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

2 of them specifically own other brands - and both loved their C7Zs as far as handling and capability were concerned. But both overheated forcing 1 to sell and move back to Porsche and Viper ACRs, his Ariel Atom, or even his C5Zs. The other modded his C7Z06 extensively with every cooling mod available, and it wasn't until he removed the 1.74 blower and went Procharger, than he finally solved the cooling issues. Either way, he sold it for a Porsche 911 Turbo S, his daily is an M5 Comp.

Wow, so they did all that and "loved" their C7s...but it was a miserable failure. Sure...

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Anyway, if you are after trophies for racing and money - why don't you start by sharing your own?

I never said I was. And if I did, then it wouldn't be the kind of racing that we can discuss here.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Good grief Blaq your logic is illogical.

I'll let you know when your opinion of me means something.

There have been tons of problems when these manufacturers try to push these engines as far as they have in the past decade. If anyone can't see that then you're not smart. Ford had tons of issues with the Voodoo engine. Despite people trying to make it out to be some kind of work of art. That thing drank a quart of oil every 500 miles, have NVH issues up it's butt, many of those engines had to be replaced and in several examples 2 times, and it was soo limited that even a car costing less than half the price gave it a run. And then the SLE straight up matched it. What does that tell you? GM tried pushing the envelope with engines being maxed out in the past and they had tons of issues. The C7 Z06 in it's first 2 years of production had issues because GM tried to push that engine farther than what it could handle. They had to revise the car after 2 years. So instead of learning their lesson, no they're gonna try to push a 5.5 DOHC FPC engine as far as they can. And it is going to have issues. When all along they could just make it a moderately high revving turbo V8. But, "track-oriented". So because for the past few decades a bunch of old guys decided that "track oriented" means an engine revving to 9000 RPMs is the only way to go, that is what we're stuck at here in 2020 when there are literally tons of ways to make a car much faster and more reliable. Yea sure. Meanwhile all the fastest "track oriented" cars out there are using forced induction and have tons of potential.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

It will be very interesting to see how GM does it. Even though GM has some of the best people working in the business, FPCs aren't that large for a reason. It its going to be very interesting to see how they handle the inherent problems of the design.

This is what I'm talking about. We just saw Ford struggle with this design and the car was an utter failure. So why is GM even trying to go this route when they can easily do it several different ways? It makes no sense. Unless this just happened to be the most cost efficient way to go. Maybe the design of the car isn't optimal for forced induction or something. I don't know. It just baffles me. Any NA engine from the factory pushing that kind of HP is going to have troubles I think. Now if it is in the 550s then I'd like to see how it turns out. If it really is over 600 then I think GM is in for a rough time.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

He's never been to the track so that's a forgone conclusion.

I wouldn't say it's a failed track car, but it does have a lot of overheating issues. Are you guys referring to something else besides overheating?

I would agree with this. Was it a disappointment to some? sure.. a total failure I don't agree with, look at the track times it's capable of posting. 7:13 Ring time with an m7. Maybe the auto was a flop with the overheating in early models but m7 didn't really suffer from that.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I didn't "claim" that you did anything. I called you out for something you actually did. Get it right. And you grossly overestimate the amount of people who have successfully boosted the Voodoo engine. Most of them failed and those engines ended up blowing the hell up. The ones who were successful were a handful of people and they spent well over $20K trying to do so. And in most cases it took months and involved rebuilding the bottom end to lower the CR and they ended up having to decrease the rev limit in the tune. So you spend all that money and time and basically destroy the engine just to get to what a GT with a blower and suspension mods could do for much less the half the total cost. If you think that is something to brag about then you don't know too much. Those Voodoo engines, even bone stock were a miserable nightmare with oil consumption issues, NVH issues, and everything else. A LOT of them, even bone stock, went thru 1 and 2 engine replacements. And they were not making "big power". Not even close.

And there is no way you're gonna be able to boost those Z06 engines safely and reliably and without spending like $20K or more. Look at all the problems people are having trying to boost the Base and Z51 C8. Most likely GM is gonna lock the ECUs like they did on the C8s and there won't even be room to fit anything in the engine bay. Not without cramping it to the point that you have overheating and rubbing issues.

Oh, I thought this was discussion where we can talk about what we would particularly like in these cars. Look bud, I can talk about whatever I want. And I can express my disapproval of this engine design if I want. And I don't plan to buy one as a matter of fact. Not when I can buy any number of cars out there that will do well on the track and not have the inherent issues of a (relatively) big displacement DOHC FPC engine and will have much more modding potential. The minute the conversation started going towards "track focused" and "NA" and everything else which basically means the car will be severely limited to what the factory puts out, that was the minute I decided against it. And that is the funniest thing these days. Because all these so-called "track focused" cars out there have the least mod-ability. In fact that phrase is becoming synonymous with "you're stuck with what you get". I would never buy a "track focused" anything. So yea I'll wait for the ZR1 to see what they offer in that car and what it costs and if it is mod friendly.

And since GM failed soo miserably with the C7 Z06 as a track car, tell me one car costing the same price that actually did better than it did at anything. You'd have to buy the ZR1 or spend over $150K to get a car that can beat a Z06. So where exactly did it fail at? Or are you just exaggerating?

Agreed on the c7 Z. As far as the voodoo goes, while it's overall been a huge disappointment and many of them blow up stock but to be fair it's worth mentioning that there are some big power voodoos running around just fine.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Funny, you just did what you claimed I did. I was simply responding to the fact you think the 5.5 will be tapped from the factory. People have boosted the Voodoo and made big power, despite that engine being built for high RPM. Nothing says the 5.5 liter won't be able to do the same. You are assuming it won't hold up.



The Z06 is supposed to be a track car. The C7 Z06 failed miserably as a track car. Why should GM repeat what failed? They offer other products that can do what you want, so why demand every version of the car cater to you? Why not let GM build a Z06 that caters to the people that actually want a Z06?

The Z06 will be built for a specific purpose. If that doesn't fit what you want for the car, then don't buy it.

Yea if the 5.5 is built forged and stout it should be able to make power provided tuning is available for it and there are fueling options.

I think you're being a little harsh on the z, sure it was heavy and the automatic overheated but an m7 c7 z was a capable car in the hands of someone who could handle it.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

The sad part for me is I am to this point with my Callaway and it has a 2.3L blower. I have already done a few cooling mods, but it continues to not be enough, so I wonder whether i go further with cooling or get back to NA life with a C6Z.

And yeah on Mr. Whole...

c6Z would be sweet, also an fbo or heads cam ss 1le if you like the alpha platform enough to want to stick with it.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Yea if the 5.5 is built forged and stout it should be able to make power provided tuning is available for it and there are fueling options.

I think you're being a little harsh on the z, sure it was heavy and the automatic overheated but an m7 c7 z was a capable car in the hands of someone who could handle it.

The car is far from a 'failure' in itself, I think it just should not have been called a Z06.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

It's tough as Callaway is twin screw only, and if you were to switch to a PC, it would no longer be a Callaway. I wish you all the best with yours, they are gorgeous cars.

Rotor - screw, close enough haha. I'm pretty sure the Maggie and Edelbrock use the same Eaton Rotor pack.

I've always wondered how much better (cooler) a Procharged car would stay on the track?

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I would agree with this. Was it a disappointment to some? sure.. a total failure I don't agree with, look at the track times it's capable of posting. 7:13 Ring time with an m7. Maybe the auto was a flop with the overheating in early models but m7 didn't really suffer from that.

I've been at the track when 1 or 2 early M7s overheated and went into limp mode. At least that's what the owners said.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

c6Z would be sweet, also an fbo or heads cam ss 1le if you like the alpha platform enough to want to stick with it.

It's either C6Z or sticking with my car and continuing to increase the cooling capacity....... or a ZLE, but i really don't want to spend that much money

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Rotor - screw, close enough haha. I'm pretty sure the Maggie and Edelbrock use the same Eaton Rotor pack.

I've always wondered how much better (cooler) a Procharged car would stay on the track?


I've been at the track when 1 or 2 early M7s overheated and went into limp mode. At least that's what the owners said.


It's either C6Z or sticking with my car and continuing to increase the cooling capacity....... or a ZLE, but i really don't want to spend that much money

I've also witnessed both M7s and Autos overheat at the track. I would point out how the M7 owners avoided it, but certain people here have no desire to learn the reality of these cars and powertrains, or admit that someone can love the way a car drives and handles and still sell it because it overheats where they intend to use it...SMH

For you Real - the owner I spent the most time with, and discussing this issue, went Procharger and never overheated again, road course or drag strip. The 1.74 is the heat soak point. A centri isn't nearly as susceptible, plus the PC intake is "air gapped" to allow heat dissipation off the top of the engine. That said, this particular scenario also included all of the extra coolers and radiators available to the C7 at the time (~2-3 years ago). This was an M7 Z07 car for reference.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

I've also witnessed both M7s and Autos overheat at the track. I would point out how the M7 owners avoided it, but certain people here have no desire to learn the reality of these cars and powertrains, or admit that someone can love the way a car drives and handles and still sell it because it overheats where they intend to use it...SMH

For you Real - the owner I spent the most time with, and discussing this issue, went Procharger and never overheated again, road course or drag strip. The 1.74 is the heat soak point. A centri isn't nearly as susceptible, plus the PC intake is "air gapped" to allow heat dissipation off the top of the engine. That said, this particular scenario also included all of the extra coolers and radiators available to the C7 at the time (~2-3 years ago). This was an M7 Z07 car for reference.

Man you are describing my feelings to a T right now with the bolded part, but certain people in this thread know everything, race everywhere, have so much money they can buy whatever they want, and they will for sure tell you all about it and how wrong you are about everything.

So what you're saying is i can buy a procharged C6Z that i found a good deal on haha.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Man you are describing my feelings to a T right now with the bolded part, but certain people in this thread know everything, race everywhere, have so much money they can buy whatever they want, and they will for sure tell you all about it and how wrong you are about everything.

So what you're saying is i can buy a procharged C6Z that i found a good deal on haha.

I have to wait on them to tell me when my "opinion" means anything, while accepting his...so that's fun

I would love a PC C6Z, but I'm not a fan of LS7s on boost - I LOVE their NA capabilities with a great set of heads and proper cam though!

For PC - C7Z is amazing...again, I know your Callaway shouldn't remove it's supercharger, but the PC offers more than just solving the overheating issue. As I discussed with my good friend as we worked through his C7Z build, the PC also offers better traction at low RPM as it doesn't bring the torque hit the 1.74s or 2.3s do. Then it moves up in the RPM to produce better power. Of course this is obvious to most who are familiar with any FI system from a centrifugal system, whether belt driven or exhaust. Anyway - he could control the car much better through an Apex which he loved nearly as much as not having to cut sessions short due to heat soak.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

This is what I'm talking about. We just saw Ford struggle with this design and the car was an utter failure. So why is GM even trying to go this route when they can easily do it several different ways? It makes no sense. Unless this just happened to be the most cost efficient way to go. Maybe the design of the car isn't optimal for forced induction or something. I don't know. It just baffles me. Any NA engine from the factory pushing that kind of HP is going to have troubles I think. Now if it is in the 550s then I'd like to see how it turns out. If it really is over 600 then I think GM is in for a rough time.

That's why I still want clarification on the racing aspect of it. If it can't be a variant of the engine I understand why.

I think the C8Z06 regardless will still be an insane performer.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

I have to wait on them to tell me when my "opinion" means anything, while accepting his...so that's fun

I would love a PC C6Z, but I'm not a fan of LS7s on boost - I LOVE their NA capabilities with a great set of heads and proper cam though!

For PC - C7Z is amazing...again, I know your Callaway shouldn't remove it's supercharger, but the PC offers more than just solving the overheating issue. As I discussed with my good friend as we worked through his C7Z build, the PC also offers better traction at low RPM as it doesn't bring the torque hit the 1.74s or 2.3s do. Then it moves up in the RPM to produce better power. Of course this is obvious to most who are familiar with any FI system from a centrifugal system, whether belt driven or exhaust. Anyway - he could control the car much better through an Apex which he loved nearly as much as not having to cut sessions short due to heat soak.

I'm just waiting for him to call us Mustang Fanboiz again because we agree with each other and not his delusional thoughts.

Yeah I've been avoiding the procharged C6Zs, I definitely want an NA one.

I figured that is how a centrifugal would act on track, much better setup all around.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

I'm just waiting for him to call us Mustang Fanboiz again because we agree with each other and not his delusional thoughts.

Yeah I've been avoiding the procharged C6Zs, I definitely want an NA one.

I figured that is how a centrifugal would act on track, much better setup all around.

Lol and good plan! It's amazing how much more usable the LT4 power became with the PC setup. That said, I wouldn't buy any FI car for road course use...prefer NA for linear power delivery...but a ZL1 1LE PC equipped might win me over one day!