[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by oldman

Supra gets 60 more hp this year

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Haha, or maybe they are just correcting their previous lie about how much power it makes.

This!

[oldman]

last year was a 2 yes two exhaust port head, this year it is all 6 exhaust ports.
On dyno HP, these mag clowns use STD on hub dynos and wonder why it makes so much HP, FI should use no correction factor on a wheel dyno.

https://www.enginelabs.com/news/tear...linder-engine/

It is interesting that BMW still uses VTEC and Honda does not!

[DaveC113]

Now they have no credibility so we can't believe it when they say it'll have +60 hp.

And for a car they claim is "ready to be modded" apparently what they had in mind is removal of the OEM drivetrain, as that does NOT look mod friendly to me.

[rocket403]

Originally Posted by oldman

Cool, never seen an R/T ever tested that light, but will take your word for it. Anybody with an Olds V8 gets street creds IMO.

Oh heck yea, DD especially if you need to put old kids into the back seat, it is Challenger all the way. Looks better than the 5th gen IMO too.

This is my Olds built it when 400 plus hp was more than what was coming out of the Factory

[oldman]

Now they have no credibility so we can't believe it when they say it'll have +60 hp.

I don't know how you come to that conclusion, the 6 port head has more power than the 2 port head. I believe it is like 480 on the M over 500 HP on the comp package. I think it is very credible that the 2020 Supra will have a significant power jump. Toyota said they would continue to upgrade the Supra.

And for a car they claim is "ready to be modded" apparently what they had in mind is removal of the OEM drivetrain, as that does NOT look mod friendly to me.

The initial Supra looks limited, the 6 port head looks like it will be easy to get 600 stock cid to 700hp big engine HP out of it pump fuel. It is a DI FI BMW engine so it maybe mod friendly, but it ain't gonna be cheap. VTEC BTW takes to FI like a duck to water... Don't know how strong the BMW drivetrain is, in general it ain't as strong as a US Muscle car, when it comes to drag racing (not what it was built for).
Not saying the Supra has the S58, just saying that the BMW inline 6 family has big HP potential (less so for the 2 pot head).
S58 here:


Here they clearly speculate the S58 could make it into the Supra:
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-ne...-ar186001.html
"BMW might want to keep the S58 for itself for a few years, but it could offer this engine to Toyota further down the road"

"But will it be as powerful as the M Competition models? It’s difficult to tell at this point. If Toyota gets approval for the lower power version, which seems likely, it would be more than enough to push the high-performance Supra well above the existing six-cylinder model. At 473 horsepower and 442 pound-feet of torque, the high-performance Supra would deliver an extra 138 horses and 77 pound-feet over the existing model. The extra oomph will also shave at least two tenths off the current 0-to-60 mph time, reducing it from 4.1 to 3.9 seconds. Now that’s a goal we can all root for!"

guess when it comes out somebody has to peak in the hood and count the exhaust ports...

[RageWorx]

Originally Posted by oldman

last year was a 2 yes two exhaust port head, this year it is all 6 exhaust ports.
On dyno HP, these mag clowns use STD on hub dynos and wonder why it makes so much HP, FI should use no correction factor on a wheel dyno.

https://www.enginelabs.com/news/tear...linder-engine/

It is interesting that BMW still uses VTEC and Honda does not!

I'm considering putting in an order for the A91 Edition in the new Fracture Blue (Love the Color been waiting).

BMW Uses what they call Valvetronic (Variable Lift) and Vanos (Variable Timing ... but Valvetronic uses a pivot shaft that changes the ratio of the valve lift and VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control) hydraulically selects between low-lift lobes for when the engine is rotating slowly and high-lift lobes for high performance.

Basically what is happening with the MKV Supra line going forward is that they are replacing the B58C engine (2020 engine with 2 port headafold design) with the B58D variant (2021 engine 6 port dual branch exhaust manifold and slightly larger turbo) already used in the current BMW Z4 M40i.

As far as nothing changing they are now telling the truth now thats not the case .... The B58C dynos around ~330 rwhp and the B58D in the Z4 M40i dynos at ~375 rwhp with the torque and power carrying further in the power-band.

The sacrifice will be that the early B58C MKV Supras will spool a bit quicker on the street and have a bigger torque rush down low rpm but falls off much quicker where as the B58D will seem to have a bit more lag but will carry the power higher up in the rev range where the 2020 MKV would feel like it falls off in power.

as far as tuning the B58D has been out or a bit now so no issues there and we will probably see a increase in delta of around 50 rwhp in comparison to the B58C in the MKV with equal mods on stock turbo so overall not too shabby .... I just feel bad for the early 2020 A90 Launch edition crowd that paid heavy ADMs only to have another limited edition released the next year with an upgraded engine after 1 year ! I would be a bit pissed at Toyota also as 2020 MKV Supras will dive a bit in value now.

Either way I am a fan of the new MKV Supra platform (Great potential and a car/chassis that was designed to only be a sports car from the ground up) and soon when BMW kills off the Z4 again it won't share a platform with any other car will be its own.

-Jon

[oldman]

I don't trust any FI dyno by as they all use sill correction figures that can't be used on FI cars. BMW can call their system whatever they want it is still a VTEC (Variable valve Timing and lift, Electronically Controlled). Shame Honda does not use VTEC anymore pay no attention to the VTEC sticker on the engine. Sure the implementation on the BMW is not as elegant (IMO), but works well, the Oldlady has a Mini S with VTEC, actually GM's version of VTEC may IMO even be more elegant than Honda's VTEC.
https://www.enginelabs.com/news/gm-s...r-2-5l-ecotec/

Good write-up up, I like the blue also, but it still is kinda ugly, not like the old Supra and I go back to the late 70s version of it, my GF at the time had one A40 / A50

[RageWorx]

Originally Posted by oldman

I don't know how you come to that conclusion, the 6 port head has more power than the 2 port head. I believe it is like 480 on the M over 500 HP on the comp package. I think it is very credible that the 2020 Supra will have a significant power jump. Toyota said they would continue to upgrade the Supra.



The initial Supra looks limited, the 6 port head looks like it will be easy to get 600 stock cid to 700hp big engine HP out of it pump fuel. It is a DI FI BMW engine so it maybe mod friendly, but it ain't gonna be cheap. VTEC BTW takes to FI like a duck to water... Don't know how strong the BMW drivetrain is, in general it ain't as strong as a US Muscle car, when it comes to drag racing (not what it was built for).

I think your are thinking of the new S58 M engine (New M3/M4 , X3M)with the 480 / 500 Hp numbers. Different animal but there are rumors the MKV Supra could see the S58 M Engine would be badass and $$$$ probably. Final Edition A95 Mabey LOL ?


Some of the 2020 MKV guys have gotten past the 500 rwhp mark already (520 ish dynojet) on Stock turbo (usually with Tune, Downpipe/Exhaust, Meth or some E85) on stock fuel system.

I would expect with the B58D variant MKV Supra 550-575 rwhp or more will be possible on stock turbo which is perfect because that where the stock 5000psi DI fuel system starts to run out of volume/flow. As far as I know though the B58C and B58D will have the same fuel system so those capabilities haven't changed.

The weakness with the MKV right now is actually tuning the ZF 8HP 8 spd Auto trans (ZF 8HP50).

While it is a great trans it is not the same ZF 8HP90 thats in the Hellcats and etc .. so how much can the 8HP50 take vs the 8HP90 will be the big question since the MKV Supra has already been producing power numbers and some trans slipping has occured with no options to tune the TCU.

Once they can do that we will see car could get faster.

-Jon

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by oldman

I don't know how you come to that conclusion...

Because the claimed 335 hp at the crank is an outright lie.

Germans have been lying about hp for a long time, most times claimed hp is pretty close to wheel hp, but the Supra was an even larger lie.

So when they claim +60 hp we have no idea if that's true anymore. They could change nothing at all and it would probably be fairly accurate.

[RageWorx]

Originally Posted by oldman

Good write-up up, I like the blue also.

Thanks I've been following this car

-Jon

[RageWorx]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Because the claimed 335 hp at the crank is an outright lie.

Germans have been lying about hp for a long time, most times claimed hp is pretty close to wheel hp, but the Supra was an even larger lie.

So when they claim +60 hp we have no idea if that's true anymore. They could change nothing at all and it would probably be fairly accurate.

Just read our posts there are differences. Yes both are underrated is what I think your saying .... ~330 whp - B58C , ~375 rwhp B58D both underrated and make at the wheel what they are rated at the crank not unusual for BMW you are correct.

-Jon

[oldman]

B58M30O1: 285 kW (382 HP)
Applications:

2018-present G29 Z4 M40i (in countries not subject to EU emissions standards)
2019-present G20 M340i
2020-present G01 X3 M40i
2019-present G02 X4 M40i
2021 Toyota Supra

Well looks like it will still be the V58 for now...

[oldman]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Because the claimed 335 hp at the crank is an outright lie.

Germans have been lying about hp for a long time, most times claimed hp is pretty close to wheel hp, but the Supra was an even larger lie.

So when they claim +60 hp we have no idea if that's true anymore. They could change nothing at all and it would probably be fairly accurate.

Agree but note most of dyno test so far are STD HP which comes from Unicorns (which are horses). Still the 1/4 mile calculaters which overestimate FI hp show the car to be in the 380 to 390 (the car is heavier than I thought). So essentially your correct, they could use the exact same engine and change the number on the advertisement.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by RageWorx

Just read our posts there are differences. Yes both are underrated is what I think your saying .... ~330 whp - B58C , ~375 rwhp B58D both underrated and make at the wheel what they are rated at the crank not unusual for BMW you are correct.

-Jon

Better find an uncorrected dyno before you make that statement. The engine probably is underrated, but you can't put a correction factor, especially a ricer correction factor on the dyno, then do a 15% drivetrain loss (probably the new drivetrain is more efficient than that) and come up to what are the magazines claiming 390+. I'm sure it is underrated, I'm also sure that ricers are running the dyno.