[Posaune]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Huh?

I don't, I just know that when what GM has stated that their plan was, and a logical example is given explaining why the sales may not be a "failure", most of those people that are screaming that the sky is falling don't want to even consider it.

If it wasn't a 40% drop from the previous year and 37% off the six year May average, I wouldn't be questioning it nearly as much. Those percentages say there is more to the story than GM shifting the sales strategy.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Raven87

After I saw the new Camaro in person and sat in it, I would have bet my next paycheck that it would kill the Mustang and Challenger in sales. I was sure of it.

The quality, the LT1 drive train, the A8 trans, the interior and instrumentation - all of it - I was 100% certain the G6 Camaro would retake the sales race just as the 5th Gen did in 2010.

It is a great car.

Yeah, it is a really strange "new car" release, there isn't a sole that I work with or even in my family that knew that it was a whole different car.

Literally no one.

But think about it, if you were the average Joe car guy and not an enthusiast, how would you know about it? If you didn't read reviews, car magazines or come to site's like this?

Just more of a reason that it seems like GM doesn't think they have to. They sure don't seem desperate about it.

Maybe with the 50 year anniversary celebration coming up they will start promoting the heck out of it?

Regardless, they just don't seem to be worried about it, so I am not going to sweat it.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Posaune

If it wasn't a 40% drop from the previous year and 37% off the six year May average, I wouldn't be questioning it nearly as much. Those percentages say there is more to the story than GM shifting the sales strategy.

Again, those percentages tell the story about a large drop in cars sold, not necessarily a large drop in profit.

I honestly couldn't care less if they sell half the Camaro's of past years or half the Mustangs.

I don't care about water cooler talk or perceptions, I just want the best car I can afford and for GM to be profitable providing it.

Look, I am not saying that they are jumping in celebration of the sales numbers or that they are even happy with them, but I just don't believe it is the disaster that some would have you believe and GM's response (or lack of one) to the sales numbers seem to indicate as much.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Yeah, it is a really strange "new car" release, there isn't a sole that I work with or even in my family that knew that it was a whole different car.

Literally no one.

But think about it, if you were the average Joe car guy and not an enthusiast, how would you know about it? If you didn't read reviews, car magazines or come to site's like this?

Just more of a reason that it seems like GM doesn't think they have to. They sure don't seem desperate about it.

Maybe with the 50 year anniversary celebration coming up they will start promoting the heck out of it?

Regardless, they just don't seem to be worried about it, so I am not going to sweat it.

It is a broader issue. Only enthusiasts know about this stuff and the car enthusiast is a small population nowadays. If you ask most people what type of engine is under their hood they wont know or care. A large percentage of teenagers don't even care about driving. It is just point a to point b with them, They have many other technology based stuff to keep them satisfied. When we we younger a car represented freedom and an opportunity to go do stuff and hang out with friends. Now a lot of kids just log into Facebook and play X-Box to pass the time. :-)

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by andrec10

Problem these days is most people look at price first, everything else later. But if you do the math, the Camaro is better buy. I mean hell, it beat the 81k BMW M4. What else do you want. But again, people see price first, and thats their mistake!

That is how most people buy cars. It starts with price and looks.
I highly doubt the large majority of 5th gen buyers (most of your LS/LT and a few SS) knew the capabilities of the 5th gen, which wasn't a slouch. The same group won't know the 6th gen can fight two or three times its price tag. They bought the hot looking car they saw in Transformers that was fun to drive, felt fast and was reasonably priced.

[clanky]

Originally Posted by Raven87

After I saw the new Camaro in person and sat in it, I would have bet my next paycheck that it would kill the Mustang and Challenger in sales. I was sure of it.

The quality, the LT1 drive train, the A8 trans, the interior and instrumentation - all of it - I was 100% certain the G6 Camaro would retake the sales race just as the 5th Gen did in 2010.

It is a great car.

I think this is where the problem lies though. I am willing to bet that most people don't know this car has been upgraded so much. The average person just looks at value for the most part. I agree though put somebody in a 6th gen camaro SS then pick em up and put em in a mustang or challenger... My money says they'll pick the camaro over the competition.

I think more advertising needs to get out for the new camaro.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

My point is that if GM was upset about the sales numbers, they can do things to increase that number (such as incentives). The fact that nothing has been done at this point only shows GM is not concerned like most of the people posting these figures. If the person selling/manufacturing the product is ok with the sales number, why should it bother us?

Right, and was only 1 month of what I would say poor sales. We will have to see what June brings, If June's numbers decline from June of 15 or decline from May of this year, then I would say GM might have a problem.

Originally Posted by merlin803

They may have been a bit disappointed, for that matter I think the last month was probably a disappointment for the auto industry in general but the real question is how disappointed, if at all?

If the 5th Gen's had say $1000 of profit per sale and the 6th Gen has $1500 profit per sale, doesn't than mean that 6000 6th Gens sold, profit wise, really equals 9000 5th Gens sold?

Theoretically, if this scenario is truly what they are doing, then they would be doing pretty well profit wise with spending very little (almost nothing) on advertisement .

I have no idea what the real profit numbers per car is for either the 5th Gen or the 6th Gen, we only know that GM has said they built more profits per sale on the 6th Gen but it is an interesting topic.

Everyone is giving their reasons for the "failure" but what if it isn't failing?

Not calling it a failure, just saying that a car that used to sell in fairly decent volume, that is now 100X better than the year before it, that is better than every car in it's class and is the car of the year should not have had its worst May ever. Yes may was a bad month for auto sales, but the Camaro should have maintained at least and average month or slightly below avg month with all things considered. It did not. It had it's worth May since it came back.

Originally Posted by merlin803

Low sales volume only indicate that "something is wrong somewhere" if your only measuring stick is how many cars are sold.

The measuring stick should be determined by the amount of profits.

Correct if they are making money all that matters, like mentioned above though, a car this good should have at least maintained similar or maybe slightly less volume than the 5th gen. Instead it had a 40% decrease from May of 15, and a 20% decrease from last month. Now if June goes back to april volume or right around there or better, then we can just chalk this up to a bad May.

Maybe it's just I expected the 6th gen to jump start the sales a bit more

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Again, those percentages tell the story about a large drop in cars sold, not necessarily a large drop in profit.

I honestly couldn't care less if they sell half the Camaro's of past years or half the Mustangs.

I don't care about water cooler talk or perceptions, I just want the best car I can afford and for GM to be profitable providing it.

Look, I am not saying that they are jumping in celebration of the sales numbers or that they are even happy with them, but I just don't believe it is the disaster that some would have you believe and GM's response (or lack of one) to the sales numbers seem to indicate as much.

Depends on how much more profit is in each car. If I did my math right, that 37% drop from average may comes out 3145 less cars. If we used your 1,000 per car in the 5th vs 1500 per car in the 6th, that is lost profit of $468,00

[Speedy1975]

It is strange. I will say I'm a huge car enthusiast and like all brands. I have a Dodge Challenger, had a 370Z that I traded for the 2016 Camaro 2SS. I was literally out driving around on a Sunday afternoon in the Challenger like I often do, and saw this bad ass looking car sitting at a new Chevy dealer. I pulled in the parking lot grumbling that it would end up being the new Cruze or some new hybrid 4 cyl POS that I wouldn't even consider owning. My jaw literally dropped when I saw the word "Camaro" on the window sticker. That was in February. I immediately started reading up on the car and the following weekend went for a test drive. The price is likely higher than what a lot of people would drop on a car like this, but for me it's a bargain. However, being a car enthusiast I understand the performance and what it costs. Most people don't.

I've had the car 8 days and absolutely LOVE it. I suspect lack of advertising is the issue, and GM was hoping to lean on past success and save the advertising dollars. Everywhere I go people just stare. They likely have no idea what kind of car it is.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Depends on how much more profit is in each car. If I did my math right, that 37% drop from average may comes out 3145 less cars. If we used your 1,000 per car in the 5th vs 1500 per car in the 6th, that is lost profit of $468,00

Yep, only GM knows what the profit per car is, could be worse or could be better.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Yep, only GM knows what the profit per car is, could be worse or could be better.

Yep, this was just an example using numbers thrown out there

[SS376]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

I've only ever seen 2 lamborghini's, one Bugatti Veyron, rarely see any Porsche 911 Turbos...

those cars must suck.

sorry, what are we talking about here? sales are the only true critic of the car, and low sales = shitty car? Maybe I've missed the point about the sales numbers.

Sophistry.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Well um ....yeah. If you had someone chomping at the bit to have a gen 6 Camaro and in the end they backed out and bought something else that could be a contributing factor to low sales numbers could it not? See, I didn't shop around for a car and pick something else. I WANTED a gen 6. The price turned me away. If I bought a Kia and Camaro was never even in my sights you would have a point. That's not the case.

Let me put in another way. You picked a track oriented performance model. Which is low volume and even among enthusiasts is considered a niche car (with the majority in the SS, GT, RT crowd). We know the majority of sales of all three cars are in the base and mid tier models by a wide margin. So right there, you're not the typical buyer. So using your example really doesn't speak to why the Mustang is so far ahead or even worse, why the Challenger is now really battling for 2nd. But let's talk about why you made your choice anyway.

So was there something in particular that you didn't like about the 6th gen or did it come down to price alone? Why didn't you choose the Mustang or Challenger over your 1LE, considering comparable prices?

[triggerjerk]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Yep, only GM knows what the profit per car is, could be worse or could be better.

Exactly.

Who knows what the break-even on this car line is.

If you want to argue "profit per vehicle" as some insist on, we also
do not know the fixed costs for the Camaro line or each car's individual variable costs. The only way this sales trend could be acceptable is if the car was so overpriced to begin with that all fixed costs were recouped in 9 months of sales. Who wants to take that bet? Way, way too much speculation on zero fact.

But generally speaking for consumer goods, poor sales= poor profit= eventual cancellation.