[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Not sure Fiat fiudging sales make the Camaro sales less bad.

But it is becoming clear GM is focused on maximum profit. Not per sale, but oevrall OPTIIMIZING volume AND profits.

But as I've said all along unless someone spills the planning volumes for the car we just won't know.

This should make you happy no? You have GM pension or something right, stock maybe?

Anyway, they did raise the price on Camaro $500 for MY 17...if sales were way lower than forecasted would they do such a thing? Of course they also started with some discounts, but they and everyone else usually do that I think.

[SuperSound]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fiat-chr...ons-1469552654

"Before the disclosure, the Italian-U.S. auto maker’s U.S. win streak was believed to have stood at 75 months as of June, dating back to 2010. The company now says the streak ended at 40 months in September of 2013; it also restated sales for a handful of other months."

"The company said the inaccuracies in its reporting have inflated U.S. retail sales by a net figure of approximately 4,500 vehicles in the period spanning 2011 to 2016, a relatively small portion of the 7.7 million cars it sold during that time."

How the hell does being short 4500 vehicles over that period mean their monthly sales streak ended 40 months ago. Maybe if they misreported that many one month. Something fishy about this whole thing.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fiat-chr...ons-1469552654

"Before the disclosure, the Italian-U.S. auto maker’s U.S. win streak was believed to have stood at 75 months as of June, dating back to 2010. The company now says the streak ended at 40 months in September of 2013; it also restated sales for a handful of other months."

"The company said the inaccuracies in its reporting have inflated U.S. retail sales by a net figure of approximately 4,500 vehicles in the period spanning 2011 to 2016, a relatively small portion of the 7.7 million cars it sold during that time."

How the hell does being short 4500 vehicles over that period mean their monthly sales streak ended 40 months ago. Maybe if they misreported that many one month. Something fishy about this whole thing.

Maybe they under reported on other better months to even it out best they could, and in the 4500 is the final unaccounted for number

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Maybe they under reported on other better months to even it out best they could, and in the 4500 is the final unaccounted for number

Wouldn't think that would be enough for a group of dealers to open a lawsuit and Feds to get involved. But who knows. Guess we will wait and see what else turns up.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Need vs. want. LOL

Knowing either way would end this monthly thread...................speaking of which only another week to go.

The profits are there and GM is happy. The number of sales do not determine the success of the Gen6, so the monthly sales thread is pointless. It's the same group of non owners that try and bash the car in hopes the price will come down. I'm so happy with my car and so glad it's not a dime a dozen Mustang. Since your family pension is GM and the profits are up on the Camaro, maybe you can find another model forum that needs help, the Gen6 is fine. Maybe go help the Spark sales?

[Zeke.Malvo]

As a consumer, I would not take pride about being bent over a rail so that big business can continue to rake in big $$. Good for big business, bad for consumers.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

As a consumer, I would not take pride about being bent over a rail so that big business can continue to rake in big $$. Good for big business, bad for consumers.

None of the owners feel bent over a rail. The Gen6 is a performance car built with performance parts and well worth the price. No one is forcing anyone to buy the car. If it's not the car for you, find the car that is.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

As a consumer, I would not take pride about being bent over a rail so that big business can continue to rake in big $$. Good for big business, bad for consumers.

I think most here would say they are paying more and getting value. The gen6 Camaro is very good and distinguishes itself from the competition. My car was worth every penny I paid for it

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I think most here would say they are paying more and getting value. The gen6 Camaro is very good and distinguishes itself from the competition. My car was worth every penny I paid for it

+1

Paid more? Yes. Best car I have ever had and also a great value for everything I got? Yep

[Mikey LikesIt]

Originally Posted by merlin803

+1

Paid more? Yes. Best car I have ever had and also a great value for everything I got? Yep

+1 Well worth the price and a good VALUE.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

The profits are there and GM is happy. The number of sales do not determine the success of the Gen6, so the monthly sales thread is pointless. It's the same group of non owners that try and bash the car in hopes the price will come down. I'm so happy with my car and so glad it's not a dime a dozen Mustang. Since your family pension is GM and the profits are up on the Camaro, maybe you can find another model forum that needs help, the Gen6 is fine. Maybe go help the Spark sales?

Not sure what your issue with me is.

Love this car. It's underperforming. That's pretty obvious compared to the other two benchmarks and the beloved 5th gen.

If you want to pick nits, you probably have less concern about this thread than I do. I personally want the car to be a screaming success. And by that I mean LGR can't make enough of them. By that I mean EXCEEDS business plan targets. By that I mean GM trying to figure out how to make enough Camaros and ATS and CTS to satisfy demand. Yes, I'm concerned about those sales as well. Ultimately the fate of GM rests more on Cadillac selling ATS and CTS in volume than the Camaro.

Still not clear on what your issue with me is, you keep poking me. Or your issue with this thread, you too keep coming back.

But I do enjoy discussing Camaro on this and Camaro5. I've told my story enough times on what Camaro means to me and the linkage to my life.

So I guess if you think poking me changes this sales thread, keep going. I'm going to keep discussing Camaros, owning one or not I've driven far too many to count and enjoyed thousands of miles in Gen4 and Gen5s.

Having "been there" the biggest issue isn't why people buy your car. That's easy. This website and others are full of people that love their car, just like you, maybe even more than you. The issue is why people reject your car. Now that's a big deal if you want high volumes like Cruze or Malibu. And the more specific and low volume you make your car, it really does only matter that the people you designed it for are buying.

It's very possible that GM's longer term plans are simply to take a mid-engine Corvette up market and leave that "affordable" sport car to Camaro. And if GM takes the Corvette higher, then maybe more people will want a ZL1, which if the base Camaro is profitable, should be hugely profitable at $60,000 plus. But again, you'd need to see their plan. You don't seem to car much for that, but there are also websites devoted to GM's future products and plans. So at least a few other people have that interest.

GM is very clearly holding pat to whatever play they are running. And if it makes you even happier that fewer are on the road great. I actually secretly love the fact that I RARELY see an SS on the road. When I do, it's actually a treat. But the fact is the car is a sales disaster. But it's also likely GM is actually making money on the car. Not much mind you.

I seem to be in the minority hoping the car sells. I really wish it outsold the Mustang. Anyone trying ignore sales as a key barometer of the goodness of a car is kidding themselves. It's important. And if you invest a lot of money in developing a car and it's variants, you need to at least hit your planning volumes or you are eating into the profitability of the car. That is also pretty straight forward.

So I'll keep coming to this thread as long as their is one that discusses sales. You can keep coming in and telling everyone sales don't matter.

My biggest fear, and I've said it many times, is we are losing our car culture. We have millennials that in droves don't even want to own a car. We have others that can't wait for self driving pods without driver controls to convey them at their command. And I guess my secret hope is that Camaro will sell STRONG and prove my fears to be misguided. But I believe CAFE pressures, the fact everyone is buying SUVs, and the march toward self driving cars (and seriously, who the F*CK wants a self driving Camaro?) will end our passion in the not too distant future. Am I clinging to the past? Maybe. Am I putting too much hope in the Camaro selling in droves? Maybe that too.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Not sure what your issue with me is.

Love this car. It's underperforming. That's pretty obvious compared to the other two benchmarks and the beloved 5th gen.

If you want to pick nits, you probably have less concern about this thread than I do. I personally want the car to be a screaming success. And by that I mean LGR can't make enough of them. By that I mean EXCEEDS business plan targets. By that I mean GM trying to figure out how to make enough Camaros and ATS and CTS to satisfy demand. Yes, I'm concerned about those sales as well. Ultimately the fate of GM rests more on Cadillac selling ATS and CTS in volume than the Camaro.

Still not clear on what your issue with me is, you keep poking me. Or your issue with this thread, you too keep coming back.

But I do enjoy discussing Camaro on this and Camaro5. I've told my story enough times on what Camaro means to me and the linkage to my life.

So I guess if you think poking me changes this sales thread, keep going. I'm going to keep discussing Camaros, owning one or not I've driven far too many to count and enjoyed thousands of miles in Gen4 and Gen5s.

Having "been there" the biggest issue isn't why people buy your car. That's easy. This website and others are full of people that love their car, just like you, maybe even more than you. The issue is why people reject your car. Now that's a big deal if you want high volumes like Cruze or Malibu. And the more specific and low volume you make your car, it really does only matter that the people you designed it for are buying.

It's very possible that GM's longer term plans are simply to take a mid-engine Corvette up market and leave that "affordable" sport car to Camaro. And if GM takes the Corvette higher, then maybe more people will want a ZL1, which if the base Camaro is profitable, should be hugely profitable at $60,000 plus. But again, you'd need to see their plan. You don't seem to car much for that, but there are also websites devoted to GM's future products and plans. So at least a few other people have that interest.

GM is very clearly holding pat to whatever play they are running. And if it makes you even happier that fewer are on the road great. I actually secretly love the fact that I RARELY see an SS on the road. When I do, it's actually a treat. But the fact is the car is a sales disaster. But it's also likely GM is actually making money on the car. Not much mind you.

I seem to be in the minority hoping the car sells. I really wish it outsold the Mustang. Anyone trying ignore sales as a key barometer of the goodness of a car is kidding themselves. It's important. And if you invest a lot of money in developing a car and it's variants, you need to at least hit your planning volumes or you are eating into the profitability of the car. That is also pretty straight forward.

So I'll keep coming to this thread as long as their is one that discusses sales. You can keep coming in and telling everyone sales don't matter.

My biggest fear, and I've said it many times, is we are losing our car culture. We have millennials that in droves don't even want to own a car. We have others that can't wait for self driving pods without driver controls to convey them at their command. And I guess my secret hope is that Camaro will sell STRONG and prove my fears to be misguided. But I believe CAFE pressures, the fact everyone is buying SUVs, and the march toward self driving cars (and seriously, who the F*CK wants a self driving Camaro?) will end our passion in the not too distant future. Am I clinging to the past? Maybe. Am I putting too much hope in the Camaro selling in droves? Maybe that too.

Poking at you? Seriously? You and your group of monthly sales monitors come on this forum and talk down this car every month. You actually drool for this thread where you can chime in and act like the Canaro is in danger. Each time you do, I will comment and remind you that this a great car and worth every penny. Me and other owners will enjoy our cars on a daily basis, while you post negative comments about a car that you don't own. Your statement that the Camaro is underperforming is a joke, Since you do not know what the goal is for this car. I hope others continue to post positive comments about their cars and maybe you'll realize your comments are pointless

[Mikey LikesIt]

A significant factor for why I went with l the Camaro instead of the Mustang was because of rarity. Yea if everyone thought like me it would eventually limit sales. But the SS owns the GT enough that I couldn't resist.

Yea the GT is nothing special but I always wanted to try out a Mustang. I just don't like the GT350 or the Voodoo. We'll see how the new GT500 is. The day after the ZL1 official info is released Ford will release GT500 specs. Then I will have decisions...

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

Poking at you? Seriously? You and your group of monthly sales monitors come on this forum and talk down this car every month. You actually drool for this thread where you can chime in and act like the Canaro is in danger. Each time you do, I will comment and remind you that this a great car and worth every penny. Me and other owners will enjoy our cars on a daily basis, while you post negative comments about a car that you don't own. Your statement that the Camaro is underperforming is a joke, Since you do not know what the goal is for this car. I hope others continue to post positive comments about their cars and maybe you'll realize your comments are pointless

It's great that you love your car. That doesn't change the facts that this new car is slumping in sales. It is a fact. There have been a lot of great things that have failed for whatever reason. Is this new car a failure? We don't know yet, but the consumer ultimately decides what is a winner and what isn't. Why does it hurt you so bad when some post anything but lollipops and sunshine about this new car? News flash! The car isn't perfect. No car is. There is a reason why it's tanking in sales and there is nothing wrong about discusing it in a thread about sales.
None of us really know if GM is happy with how this car is performing. My guess would be that they aren't. This car has never been intended to be an ultra low volume car. If it was they wouldn't build V6s, 4 bangers, and low option models. I would be willing to bet that if it was kicking the Mustang's butt in sales you would be on here blowing off about that. Get out and enjoy your car. Don't worry about us folks that would like to know what's going on without having to sugar coat everything. We are concerned because we don't want to see the demise of the Camaro again. We probably care about the car more than you. That's why we are questioning what is going on. Sales is a big deal these days. Think about all the money that GM has to make back before one dollar in profit is made one any new model launch. That number is huge. They need sales to profit.