[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Your argument fell short so you're resorting to twisting things around. I never said that I knew or that I was going to "school you" or that anyone knew. In fact I said the exact opposite. I said that nobody knows the profit margins of the Camaro OR the Mustang. And I said that to assume that the Mustang is doing good and the Camaro is doing bad based solely off the sales numbers without know the profits is just an assumption with nothing to back it up. You then insisted that the Camaro is doing horrible, the admins on this forum are hiding the sales threads, and that most of our members here are worried. None of this had any backing and was all your delusions. So when I asked you if you knew what those numbers were, your answer was "no". It's just you didn't want to admit that you don't know and that it was all your speculation. That and 2 quarters won't even buy you a candy bar my friend.

Dude stop. I never insisted anything. I said I worried about camaro sales. Because the sales curently suck. You say but profits per units. You ask me to prove they are doing bad. I use rapidly falling sales as my example. And also use worst in class sales as an example of impending trouble. I ask you to prove they are fine. Some how you think your winning this arguement. I even went as far as to offer an olive branch and say I wouldn't talk about it anymore. You dingdongs are keeping it going. My arguement is so simple a child could understand it. 2500 sales a month uquals oh sh!t we could be in trouble. You keep saying profit per unit. When your not selling units. So do you want to show me the profit per unit? Or do you really not want to talk about? Cause I was fine with droppi g it last night.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Remember when the 5th gen camaro was the sales leader. And you guys had graphs and pie charts showing chevy was winning? Sales mattered back then. Didn't they? But now your dead last. So no more pie charts. No more graphs. Sales threads no longer show up in the general section. Like they did when you were winning. I agreed not to talk about sales anymore. But it seams like you guys still want to talk about it? 1&2. So school me on target sales? Please share the insider information you have. so I can understand like you and blaq. School me on profit margins? Show me GMs and Fords sales data proving your point? Apparently ever member on this forum gets business updates directly from GM. 3. Im an enthusiast. Wanna race? Because im the type of enthusiast that cares more about what my car can do. Not what it can do stock. Ill leave that to the magazine racers! This section is loaded with them. 4. Camaros rare. Really? The most rare camaros are the 2003-2009. Those rare Camaros are why I like performance cars to sell. Ok are we done with sales? Are we done with profit? Or are you and blaq going to back up you profit per unit talk with facts? Cause I can easy back up my talk about sales numbers.

And conversely, I seem to recall back then when the Camaro sold more that the Mustang guys didn't care about sales. Remember that? Remember when the Mustang was 2 tenths of a second faster and that was more important than sales? Then all of a sudden it became slower but sold more and you guys flip flopped just like you're saying we did. Except, that was 5th Gen Camaro guys. Most of whom aren't even on here. Those of us here now never made those arguments nor did we even care about sales. So your argument is on Camaro5 homie.

And again, for someone who claims to be a fan of the Camaro, all you have done on here is disrespected the car, made accusations against our admins for how they handle excessive over-themed threads, and consistently made every effort to insult us. So I ask you again, what is your intended purpose here? Shaffe does not behave like you do even tho he prefers the Mustang. Neither does newmoon. You on the other hand have some sort of desire to insult us. Are any of us over on M6G throwing insults and disrespect at the Mustang? No. We're over here, in a Camaro forum, discussing our preference for our favorite car. And all you can do is show up trying to argue and debate and point out to us how much contempt you have for the Camaro. If any of us went over to M6G and pulled this nonsense we wouldn't last a day. They'd ban us faster than you can think. So since you have soo much contempt for us and the Camaro and since you have not said even one positive thing about the Camaro, then what are you here on our site for??

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Touche - I just pulled that info right from the summary screen on Ford's build & Price

Camaro builds include that tax, but don't know why Ford doesn't.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Dude stop. I never insisted anything. I said I worried about camaro sales. Because the sales curently suck. You say but profits per units. You ask me to prove they are doing bad. I use rapidly falling sales as my example. And also use worst in class sales as an example of impending trouble. I ask you to prove they are fine. Some how you think your winning this arguement. I even went as far as to offer an olive branch and say I wouldn't talk about it anymore. You dingdongs are keeping it going. My arguement is so simple a child could understand it. 2500 sales a month uquals oh sh!t we could be in trouble. You keep saying profit per unit. When your not selling units. So do you want to show me the profit per unit? Or do you really not want to talk about? Cause I was fine with droppi g it last night.

And I'll give you the same warning I gave what's his name before he got banned...if I were you, I'd edit that insult you threw before it gets seen by an admin or reported to one. Not that I'd care...just warning you that if you think you're gonna call us names then you've got another thing coming.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think the standard GT500 will beat the standard ZL1 in all metrics due to the power advantage and DCT. But I believe someone else mentioned it, the ZL1 might be easier to do it in. time will tell

I am not expecting the Standard 500 to be cheaper than the ZL1. All I am saying is I think Ford knows and understands where this car needs to MSRP. I personally think the people saying high 70s low 80s for the stand car an over 90 are a little crazy. It may very well end up that high and if it does, then Ford failed IMO. I am going by past history. Ford had a target car in their sights, and undercut the price of it by over 10K. All I am saying as far as MSRP, I have some faith that ford will have priced correctly.



That is true, we will have to see.



Base MSRP: S1
$67,135
+ Options: S4
$0
+ Destination: S17
$1,095
= Total MSRP: S16
$68,230
− Incentives: S3
$0
= Estimated Net Price: S5
$68,230

The base GT350 is 60,235. I think ford knows where the 500 needs to MSRP at to be successful. In the press release they even stated themselves that its" a mustang and the means being attainable." maybe I am to optimistic a base GT500 starting at 79K sounds like a complete failure to me.

I guess I look at it like this, does the GT500 have 30K more in goodies on it than the 350 does?



And the 350R came with Carbon Fiber wheels, and a flat plane crank engine designed from the ground up specifically for one vehicle so what's your point? Both cars had expensive equipment on them in different areas, the Ford undercut the price of teh Z/28 by over 10K still



See above GT350R MSRP with destination is 68,230



If you read the tea leaves, Mustang is moving to a platform shared with Explorer and Aviator. That helps the mustang's case. In the end you are correct the segment is shrinking.

Yes I can agree with a lot of what you said about the performance of the GT500. I do think that Ford KNOWS where the pricing needs to be. But if they can get the pricing there, that is a different question. I'm willing to bet we'll see mid $70K on the base and high $70K to low $80K on the Premium. If they're following along with the pricing of the competitors, then I'm sure they think they can get the pricing that high and it'll sell.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Im Still waiting to be schooled. I was perfectly willing to drop it. You boys wanna keep it going. Then by all means. Im waiting in the profit lesson. If you dont care as much as you claim. I recomend you put me on ignore. So the blue font doesnt bother you anymore.

In short, you have nothing of value with which to reply to my comment.

Carry on...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

Camaro builds include that tax, but don't know why Ford doesn't.

Yeah that is dumb that Ford does not include that on the build n price site.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yes I can agree with a lot of what you said about the performance of the GT500. I do think that Ford KNOWS where the pricing needs to be. But if they can get the pricing there, that is a different question. I'm willing to bet we'll see mid $70K on the base and high $70K to low $80K on the Premium. If they're following along with the pricing of the competitors, then I'm sure they think they can get the pricing that high and it'll sell.

I agree. I am just hopeful/ optimistic that they set the MSRP in that range.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yeah that is dumb that Ford does not include that on the build n price site.



I agree. I am just hopeful/ optimistic that they set the MSRP in that range.

I'll say that is fairly priced even if it doesn't beat the ZLE or the Redeye. It will still be on the same playing field. And either way it will beat both of them at one thing...the ZLE in a straight line and the RE around a track. So given those definites, I'd say $75K for a Base and $80K for a Premium is fair. Go too much over $80K and I think it'll be overpriced. It should not come in at above RE prices...just in range.

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And conversely, I seem to recall back then when the Camaro sold more that the Mustang guys didn't care about sales. Remember that? Remember when the Mustang was 2 tenths of a second faster and that was more important than sales? Then all of a sudden it became slower but sold more and you guys flip flopped just like you're saying we did. Except, that was 5th Gen Camaro guys. Most of whom aren't even on here. Those of us here now never made those arguments nor did we even care about sales. So your argument is on Camaro5 homie.

And again, for someone who claims to be a fan of the Camaro, all you have done on here is disrespected the car, made accusations against our admins for how they handle excessive over-themed threads, and consistently made every effort to insult us. So I ask you again, what is your intended purpose here? Shaffe does not behave like you do even tho he prefers the Mustang. Neither does newmoon. You on the other hand have some sort of desire to insult us. Are any of us over on M6G throwing insults and disrespect at the Mustang? No. We're over here, in a Camaro forum, discussing our preference for our favorite car. And all you can do is show up trying to argue and debate and point out to us how much contempt you have for the Camaro. If any of us went over to M6G and pulled this nonsense we wouldn't last a day. They'd ban us faster than you can think. So since you have soo much contempt for us and the Camaro and since you have not said even one positive thing about the Camaro, then what are you here on our site for??

Ban me for pointing out. I would refrain from talking sales.And pointing out you guys wont let it go? I hope you have more influence with the mods on this sight. Than I do with the mods on mine. Because that weak comment your calling an insult would fall on deaf ears. Sales talk is dead. Lets talk about what a failire the GT500 is going to be.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Ban me for pointing out. I would refrain from talking sales.And pointing out you guys wont let it go? I hope you have more influence with the mods on this sight. Than I do with the mods on mine. Because that weak comment your calling an insult would fall on deaf ears. Sales talk is dead. Lets talk about what a failire the GT500 is going to be.

No. For name calling. So now you think you can call us "ding dongs" just for having an opinion about the Camaro? You are out of line and out of place. Like I said, you're here with your contempt of the Camaro talking down to us on a Camaro forum. And all you've done in your time here is trash talk us, the Camaro, and even the admins. You have not one positive thing to say. So why are you here?

And yet again, if sales are the only thing that matters, then how did the Challenger survive for over a decade while being the most expensive and consistently least selling of the three?

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

No. For name calling. So now you think you can call us "ding dongs" just for having an opinion about the Camaro? You are out of line and out of place. Like I said, you're here with your contempt of the Camaro talking down to us on a Camaro forum. And all you've done in your time here is trash talk us, the Camaro, and even the admins. You have not one positive thing to say. So why are you here?

And yet again, if sales are the only thing that matters, then how did the Challenger survive for over a decade while being the most expensive and consistently least selling of the three?

You disappoint on so many levels. Your feelings are hurt? By the name dingdong????? I guess the only thing worse than your driving. Is your ability to take it as well as you dish it out! I offered a different prospective. When I went by the name Bluebeastsrt and owned a Camaro. Back in the camaro5 day. I got banned back then for not towing the line. I'm still offering a different prospective from this collective in the VS section. I can say ten positive things about Camaros. I've owned several. Love the styling. Love the Engine, Love the fact that it is an American car that can punch above of it's weight class. Like the Mustang does! But anything that goes against "YOUR" narrative. You and one or two others in this section will throw a hissyfit. This is the VS. section. And even if I did have as much contempt for Camaros as you do for Mustangs. The points I make are always in the text of a VS. conversation. So with that said. I reply to comments in the same manner that posts are directed at me. You want to have an intelligent conversation like jim. You'll get nothing but respect. You wanna come at me. I'll hit ya back harder. Notice after all your crying you just did. YOU STILL CAN'T HELP YOUSELF. And you bring up sales again!!!!! After I've said several times. I would give the sales conversation a rest! Since neither your or my point can be readily proven.

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

I'm going to say the GT500 will win against both the Hellcat red eye and the ZLe. I expect the Mustang to run high tens thanks to the DCT transmission and the high sprung engine that will most likely shift at 7500rpms. I expect the Carbon package to outrun the ZLe due to the tire advantage and the DCT. If the GT500 doesn't it will be a disappointment. Simply for the fact that Ford had 3 years to hit their targets.

[ThirteenTwenty]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And again, like I told you before, you have no idea if Ford is actually doing good or bad. Or Chevy for that matter. Mustangs were being heavily discounted. Lots of them selling for even less than MSRP. Camaros were not. In fact, many of your friends over on M6G complained that the dealerships would not budge on Camaro prices so they went to a Ford dealership and got a GT for less than sticker. So if you're selling tons of cars at heavily discounted rates, and I'm selling less cars but with no discounts, all you can do is make assumptions and opinions. And that is all you have done. What makes your opinion and assumption any more valid than mine?

My other example of the Challenger which you chose to ignore. How long did they trail way behind the other two in sales? Years? How bad were their sales from 2007 or 2009 when they hit the scene? They're still lagging behind? Did they get discontinued or are they still being produced? Why do you think that is? Could it be that each unit is selling at a price that they're making enough money to continue production? Please, give me your speculation on how the Challenger survived all these years with the worst sales numbers of the entire segment consistently. Could it be possible that sales numbers alone tell you nothing of how well a car is actually doing? I'm all ears...

Now let me ask you another question...between the Camaro, Mustang, and Chally, which one was the most expensive and sold the least amount of cars?

The Dealer pays invoice Price minus their "hold back" to Ford/GM,It makes no difference to Ford or GM what the dealer sells the car for. Just as Ford/GM make nothing on ADM, they lose nothing if the Dealer sells below invoice.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And yet again, if sales are the only thing that matters, then how did the Challenger survive for over a decade while being the most expensive and consistently least selling of the three?

The difference is that the cost of the platform has to be offset by the margin of the total # of vehicles sold. Dodges LX platforms has sold over 1 million Chrysler 300's alone. That platform was long ago paid for so Dodge can "afford" to make small profits off low volume. Its highly unlikely an advanced platform like Alpha has been paid for with the small unit volume it has seen.

[kttxz06]

smh