[lowke]

5'-7" and 210 lbs. To me 21 Camaro best seating position ever.

[ariZona28]

I still think one of the contributing factors to the Camaro's sales decline was Chevrolet was a victim of their own success. Why should I buy a new '18 when my '15 was paid for and still running/looking like new? If an individual had a nice, clean '18 why roll the dice on a new '23. Etc, etc. Combine that with a wide selection of reasonable milage used 5th and 6th Gens why buy new when someone else has already eaten the depreciation? Glad I have my two '15s and I may add a 6th Gen someday but I'm not too optimistic about what gm will be rolling out in the future.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by ariZona28

I still think one of the contributing factors to the Camaro's sales decline was Chevrolet was a victim of their own success. Why should I buy a new '18 when my '15 was paid for and still running/looking like new? If an individual had a nice, clean '18 why roll the dice on a new '23. Etc, etc. Combine that with a wide selection of reasonable milage used 5th and 6th Gens why buy new when someone else has already eaten the depreciation? Glad I have my two '15s and I may add a 6th Gen someday but I'm not too optimistic about what gm will be rolling out in the future.

I'm the guy with the (then) new 2018 and indeed GM gave me zero reasons to buy another 6th gen; in fact, most of their changes made the new models less desirable, with the single exception of the rear camera mirror (and that I could easily retrofit, thanks to Gen5DIY).

At this point, with my mods and the Camaro no longer being made, the whole question is moot of course, but I decided to go down the modding path in the first place when I saw what they did to the 2019. Now that my car is almost perfect, even a potential 7th gen would have to be much better for rme to consider.

[CHASLT1]

The seating in a C8 felt too wrapped in when i drove one.

[JT6Speed]

There should have been a Z/28 to compete with the Mach 1, period.

Not everyone wants or needs a 650hp boosted ZL1, that can be for the guys who hunt Shelby's maybe. The 6th gen needed a higher output N/A track weapon. IMO they already had half the recipe with the 1LE, it just should have been badged as a Z/28 from the start with a beefed up LT1, maybe putting out 530hp or so. They could have still had a 1LE nameplate, but it would be more of what a PP2 Mustang was (same hp, better/bigger tires, aero, and some suspension).

1LE is a package, Z/28 is heritage.

[bishopts]

Originally Posted by JT6Speed

There should have been a Z/28 to compete with the Mach 1, period.

Not everyone wants or needs a 650hp boosted ZL1, that can be for the guys who hunt Shelby's maybe. The 6th gen needed a higher output N/A track weapon. IMO they already had half the recipe with the 1LE, it just should have been badged as a Z/28 from the start with a beefed up LT1, maybe putting out 530hp or so. They could have still had a 1LE nameplate, but it would be more of what a PP2 Mustang was (same hp, better/bigger tires, aero, and some suspension).

1LE is a package, Z/28 is heritage.

Or a higher rpm 6.6 for the z28

The racing version of the L8T. We could call it the L8T-R aka Later! ��

[LT14EVA]

Originally Posted by bishopts

Or a higher rpm 6.6 for the z28

The racing version of the L8T. We could call it the L8T-R aka Later! ��

A new 6.6 is coming. Probably for trucks and suv.

[AZCamaroFan]

because pony car sales started falling off in the late 80s and there's fewer people each year that want to buy them. the mustang is alone in the market now and not selling well.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by bishopts

What are you even talking about? Since i like my car i can see out of it just fine but people that don't like them or own them can't see out?
Try and make that make sense.

Like i said dumb kids that just came from a sedan have problems, no one that knows how to adjust a seat and use mirrors will have problems any more than any other coupe.

You’re wrong and just biased because you like the car. Not saying that to be a d*** but as the poster noted fans of the car just can’t see it (pun intended). I thought about getting rid of my Camaro multiple times and test drove a bunch of other cars. As soon as I get in them I am shocked at the amount of extra visibility. What’s even more confusing is the Mustang is literally the same kind of car and it has significantly more visibility. Same with the M2.

Same with the C6/7 which I considered switching too. EVERY sports car I test drove instead of my Camaro had significantly more visibility. The Camaro is that bad and first impressions matter a ton in life. It’s not about adjusting mirrors. It’s about how much compromise you make with the visibility situation AFTER adjusting your mirrors. We owners deal with it so we don’t notice how bad it is. I on the other hand have gotten board a few times of my Camaro so I’ve test driven other sports cars while owning it and every time I jump into something else, it’s a bit of a shock how much easier it is to see. I am still in my Camaro so obviously I am okay with it but I completely understand why the average person isn’t. The visibility is trash.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by JT6Speed

There should have been a Z/28 to compete with the Mach 1, period.

Not everyone wants or needs a 650hp boosted ZL1, that can be for the guys who hunt Shelby's maybe. The 6th gen needed a higher output N/A track weapon. IMO they already had half the recipe with the 1LE, it just should have been badged as a Z/28 from the start with a beefed up LT1, maybe putting out 530hp or so. They could have still had a 1LE nameplate, but it would be more of what a PP2 Mustang was (same hp, better/bigger tires, aero, and some suspension).

1LE is a package, Z/28 is heritage.

You described my literal dream car haha. I feel my SS 1LE is very underpowered for the amount of grip it came with from the factory. An NA 500-535 hp would have made the car perfection from a sports car perspective. Still would have a lot of compromises as a car but I am fortunate enough to have my truck for daily driver duties.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

You’re wrong and just biased because you like the car. Not saying that to be a d*** but as the poster noted fans of the car just can’t see it (pun intended). I thought about getting rid of my Camaro multiple times and test drove a bunch of other cars. As soon as I get in them I am shocked at the amount of extra visibility. What’s even more confusing is the Mustang is literally the same kind of car and it has significantly more visibility. Same with the M2.

Same with the C6/7 which I considered switching too. EVERY sports car I test drove instead of my Camaro had significantly more visibility. The Camaro is that bad and first impressions matter a ton in life. It’s not about adjusting mirrors. It’s about how much compromise you make with the visibility situation AFTER adjusting your mirrors. We owners deal with it so we don’t notice how bad it is. I on the other hand have gotten board a few times of my Camaro so I’ve test driven other sports cars while owning it and every time I jump into something else, it’s a bit of a shock how much easier it is to see. I am still in my Camaro so obviously I am okay with it but I completely understand why the average person isn’t. The visibility is trash.

Can you elaborate a bit on which aspects of visibility you're talking about? I drive 3 different cars/trucks on a regular basis and still don't see the issue with the Camaro.

- Is it the narrow rear windshield and the high rear end? The rear view camera is a 100% solution to whoever is bothered by this, so not even worth a mention. Also, many sedans have 3 giant headrests sticking up above the rear seat, which annoys me to no end, but interestingly nobody talks about those.

- Is it the tiny quarter windows? This is problematic indeed, but (assuming side mirrors are set up correctly and the car has blind spot monitoring, ie it's a 3LT, 2SS or ZL1) only in ~1% of driving situations, which we gladly overlook. Also, this is just as bad in other comparable coupes.

- Is it the side windows? They're actually much better than on any other vehicle I drive, because the doors are very long and I get a ton of rearward visibility where normally the B pillar blocks my view on other cars.

- Is it the A pillars? They're actually better than 2 of the 3 cars I drive regularly, so I don't think it's a problem with the Camaro per se.

- Is it the "widescreen format" windshield? This is absolutely a matter of perception, I see everything related to traffic, and the fact that I see half as much of the sky as in other cars feels totally irrelevant. Then again, I can kind of understand how this may look like a "slit" to people and bother them, psychologically speaking.
So I'd appreciate your thoughts here, honestly

[Martinjlm]

So, after summarizing 5 pages of input it seems to be any combination of

• Reduced overall market for muscle cars
• High price
• Poor visibilty, trunk access and rear seat accomodation
• Lack of advertising
• GM didn't do enough to refresh it
• Youth today are idiots and don't recognize a great car when they see one

Did I miss anything?

[bishopts]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

So, after summarizing 5 pages of input it seems to be any combination of

• Reduced overall market for muscle cars
• High price
• Poor visibilty, trunk access and rear seat accomodation
• Lack of advertising
• GM didn't do enough to refresh it
• Youth today are idiots and don't recognize a great car when they see one

Did I miss anything?

Nailed it

[Devstrike]

I am with arpad_m on this one could not have said it better myself. I have driven many vehicles etc through my near forty years of life and I have to say I do not agree with every other sports car having a significantly better visibility advantage.