[Adios]

Originally Posted by NZ ZL1

No

[keep_hope_alive]

Originally Posted by 1fastz28

I really think that until the grid is updated which is needed regardless of the expansion of electric vehicles, that the best way to lower pollution and increase range is plug-in hybrids. For most short drives which makes up the majority of driving you can just drive on electric power. And when you want to go on longer trips you gas up instead of spending 30-60 mins at a charger. The volt was REALLY ahead of its time.

Agreed. As an Electrical Engineer who designs large building power systems and works with utilities for load profiles, I can confirm that the grid is incapable of handling an in-rush (nerd pun intended) of EV charging. PHEV should be the push, and I don't understand why it's not, I just assume there is money to be made by legislatures and politicians and thus the push.

[CCG Garnet Red]

No.

[Panda1SS]

No chance. I'm already pissed enough people trying to make it so I can't even drive my car. I want no part in this souless market. No sound no rumble no control of gears no buy.

[len_eng]

No Thank You. The electrics currently are bursting into flames while charging (Bolts) , giving crappy range especially in cold and very hot weather. The grid is unable to keep up as has been seen in recent days by California and Texas asking people not to charge during peak hours. The infrastructure is simply not there to recharge the vehicles. Recharge versus refuel time of several hours versus 5 minutes. I would rather not have to take a valuable day of vacation because I cannot charge my car. With Gas I can run for three days (400-500 mile range) 110 mile daily commute. Finally there are a lot of reasons why they are not as "green" as the ICE variants 1) line losses in the power lines 2) electricity is mainly generated in this country by fossil fuels 3) mining to retrieve the rare earths for the batteries 4) safely recycling the batteries Finally electric car ranges should have a dis-qualifier next to them for example Your Mileage will be reduced by hot days cold days excessive use of accessories such as heat and air conditioning. Also there is the cost of replacement batteries and the increased depreciation due to the battery wear out phenomenon. Replacing the batteries is currently far more expensive than any minor engine repair at 100k, or even 15ok miles.

[90503]

Originally Posted by len_eng

No Thank You. The electrics currently are bursting into flames while charging (Bolts) , giving crappy range especially in cold and very hot weather. The grid is unable to keep up as has been seen in recent days by California and Texas asking people not to charge during peak hours. The infrastructure is simply not there to recharge the vehicles. Recharge versus refuel time of several hours versus 5 minutes. I would rather not have to take a valuable day of vacation because I cannot charge my car. With Gas I can run for three days (400-500 mile range) 110 mile daily commute. Finally there are a lot of reasons why they are not as "green" as the ICE variants 1) line losses in the power lines 2) electricity is mainly generated in this country by fossil fuels 3) mining to retrieve the rare earths for the batteries 4) safely recycling the batteries Finally electric car ranges should have a dis-qualifier next to them for example Your Mileage will be reduced by hot days cold days excessive use of accessories such as heat and air conditioning. Also there is the cost of replacement batteries and the increased depreciation due to the battery wear out phenomenon. Replacing the batteries is currently far more expensive than any minor engine repair at 100k, or even 15ok miles.

Not to mention recommended charging for best battery life and reasonable quick charge time is between 20% and 80% of battery charge capacity. (Basically useful range is 40% less than advertised range), and that's under "ideal" conditions....To charge to 100% capacity for full range takes considerably longer charge time and electricity use, as well as not recommended for the life of the battery itself.

[LStick]

No.
One of my sons was on a research group that is into Hydrogen fuel.
I view electric vehicles as a stopgap.

[SomeGeoffGuy]

Tough crowd!

[LT4Greg]

No way unless you can’t buy or too expensive for gasoline!

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by LT4Greg

No way unless you can’t buy or too expensive for gasoline!

Speaking of which, gas prices have dropped almost 50c here since a week ago. Hope this trend continues, marching on back to $2.60-2.70 for 93 (I know, I know, just trying to lighten the mood a bit).

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by LStick

No.
One of my sons was on a research group that is into Hydrogen fuel.
I view electric vehicles as a stopgap.

Agreed

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive

Agreed. As an Electrical Engineer who designs large building power systems and works with utilities for load profiles, I can confirm that the grid is incapable of handling an in-rush (nerd pun intended) of EV charging. PHEV should be the push, and I don't understand why it's not, I just assume there is money to be made by legislatures and politicians and thus the push.

We are still years from that many EVs on the road. Even when the market is 80% EV around 2030 if Ford, GM and others meet their commitments we will still have 200 million ICE vehicles on the road so 2050 before we would be all EV.

Does anyone on this site actually believe nothing will change in 30 years? No better batteries, charging or infrastructure?

I remember working at the proving grounds one February day when an engineer rolled up in the bay next to me in EV1. I asked what was the range on a cold day like today. “About 15 miles” he said.

Originally Posted by Panda1SS

No chance. I'm already pissed enough people trying to make it so I can't even drive my car. I want no part in this souless market. No sound no rumble no control of gears no buy.

Not clear, who is trying to make it so you can’t drive your car. I’ve experienced nothing like this.

Originally Posted by len_eng

No Thank You. The electrics currently are bursting into flames while charging (Bolts) , giving crappy range especially in cold and very hot weather. The grid is unable to keep up as has been seen in recent days by California and Texas asking people not to charge during peak hours. The infrastructure is simply not there to recharge the vehicles. Recharge versus refuel time of several hours versus 5 minutes. I would rather not have to take a valuable day of vacation because I cannot charge my car. With Gas I can run for three days (400-500 mile range) 110 mile daily commute. Finally there are a lot of reasons why they are not as "green" as the ICE variants 1) line losses in the power lines 2) electricity is mainly generated in this country by fossil fuels 3) mining to retrieve the rare earths for the batteries 4) safely recycling the batteries Finally electric car ranges should have a dis-qualifier next to them for example Your Mileage will be reduced by hot days cold days excessive use of accessories such as heat and air conditioning. Also there is the cost of replacement batteries and the increased depreciation due to the battery wear out phenomenon. Replacing the batteries is currently far more expensive than any minor engine repair at 100k, or even 15ok miles.

I won’t pick to bad but you do know your gas mileage in your ICE is also affected by temperature and accessory use right?

And batteries are lasting much longer than you think. Federal emissions requires OEMs to cover the battery for 70,000 miles and Tesla for one is even higher. And in the end, you have an electric motor and a battery. No engine, no transmission, both if replaced new will run you close to a battery. But you unfairly compare a new battery to a “minor repair” on the ICE.

My LaCrosse for reference had the range of a Bolt with its 11 gallon tank so there is that.

Originally Posted by 90503

Not to mention recommended charging for best battery life and reasonable quick charge time is between 20% and 80% of battery charge capacity. (Basically useful range is 40% less than advertised range), and that's under "ideal" conditions....To charge to 100% capacity for full range takes considerably longer charge time and electricity use, as well as not recommended for the life of the battery itself.

In the Volt GM actually included the 20/80 in the software so the 50 miles was 50 miles.

Originally Posted by LStick

No.
One of my sons was on a research group that is into Hydrogen fuel.
I view electric vehicles as a stopgap.

Green steel could make hydrogen cheaper and plentiful. But otherwise the industry is still heavily leanining on EVs. Oh and hydrogen doesn’t address the refueling/recharging time. With the in your driveway program, the GM Equinox in the program were 30 minutes. But that was 15 years ago so likely better.

Also, hydrogen storage requires a VERY special and expensive tank to store the hydrogen at 10,000 psi.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Number 3

We are still years from that many EVs on the road. Even when the market is 80% EV around 2030 if Ford, GM and others meet their commitments we will still have 200 million ICE vehicles on the road so 2050 before we would be all EV.

Does anyone on this site actually believe nothing will change in 30 years? No better batteries, charging or infrastructure?

I remember working at the proving grounds one February day when an engineer rolled up in the bay next to me in EV1. I asked what was the range on a cold day like today. “About 15 miles” he said.

Not clear, who is trying to make it so you can’t drive your car. I’ve experienced nothing like this.

I think the concern here is that GM has stated that they are going all EV, which means certain death of the ICE based Camaro and a Corvette that is now out of reach for many due to pricing. Dodge has stated the future of their brand is emuscle, Ford may have one more ICE based Mustang. Sure there will be used examples of performance based ICE cars but they will probably climb in cost and then the fear of not being able to get parts, etc.

It would be one thing if this push for EVs was on typical commuter cars or even the luxury segment but to abandon performance based ICE based vehicles when there is still a large enthusiast market seems extreme.

I own both a Tesla and ZL1. There is an emotional connection and deeper level of driving engagement that you get from a performance based ICE vehicle. I have more fun driving my ZL1 and Miata than the Tesla.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Number 3

We are still years from that many EVs on the road. Even when the market is 80% EV around 2030 if Ford, GM and others meet their commitments we will still have 200 million ICE vehicles on the road so 2050 before we would be all EV.

Does anyone on this site actually believe nothing will change in 30 years? No better batteries, charging or infrastructure?

The point was being made that even now with the relatively small number of EVs on the road, the infrastructure is such that EVs are being told, required, whatever, not to charge during certain times, normal times can't handle what's out there now...

Imagining what may be changed 30 years from now does nothing for today's EV owners....Discouraging fossil fuel use, ending ICE vehicle production in a few more years, doesn't help current vehicle owners, either EV or ICE.

No doubt batteries may get better, charging may get better....Infrastructure may get better (but not if fossil fuels are go unused to make electricity).... Early EV adopters are already being treated as obsolete in a few years time...lol...Buying now with the "promise" or hope of better conditions for EVs thirty years from now is a red-herring and a phantom pipe dream.