[serper3]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

I'd be happier than a pig in mud too drive a Ariel Atom over a GT3. The Ariel is less expensive, but a lot, and it's way better to drive than a GT3.

So the statement that a more expensive car is more fun and enjoyable to drive over a less expensive car is only true...10% of the time.

You would basically be literally the only person to think the atom is better than a gt3 and would rather drive/own the atom over a gt3. also the atom isnt even a car really.

but in general, as you go up in trim.. 911 to a gt3, 4 series to an m4, etc its more enjoyable of an experience.

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

A more expensive car being more fun and enjoyable is definitely not universally true. Miata's are a riot, and they are cheap.

It mostly comes down to the fundamentals of why Chevy and other makes do Nurburgring times: to show off potential, and sell cars. So MOST (but not all) owners can buy them, debate about which PPF or ceramic coating is best, complain about brake dust buildup, and take it to car shows...while simultaneously being able to say they "own a car that COULD do 7:xx:xx on the 'ring". Sure, if they knew how to do it, maybe.

Miatas are fun. i had one for a long time, i ended up turboing it. they are also slow and that gets boring. its not universally true, but is usually true going up in trims, or comparing different classes of cars.

people buy these cars for fun. very few people are trying to race competitively and really improve their driving and that is okay. there is no trophy or prize for fastest person in your hpde group. what people do like though, is having a better tool for the job.

[Big Swole]

Agreed!

[TXCSSU]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

And how am I saying anything different than you?

I said a Camaro is a Camaro. Each has their own unique trims and packages.

You said technically their all Camaros but not built the same and priced accordingly.

And yes, technically a ZL1 is a more capable car vs a SS. An SS is a more capable car than the LT. An LT V6 is a more capable car than the LS 4 cylinder.

The ZL1 1LE is more capable than the SS 1LE as it is more capable than the V6 1LE as it's more capable than the 4 cylinder 1LE.

And yes, the non 1LE ZL1 is more capable than the SS 1LE. Not by with the suspension or brakes since the SS takes that from the ZL1 but in the aspect that is easier to add more power to the ZL1 over the SS.

And that's all that anyone is saying. The SS 1LE is a great track car, but it's not a ZL1, just as an LT V6 isn't an SS. They're priced differently for a reason, and everyone is going to try to justify their purchase. I'm sure the 4-banger guys will insist that their purchase is the best based on MPG.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by Big Swole

How is that exactly??

Because 90% of them think their crap doesn't stink. Porsche themselves are glad dealers are making their customers pay $50k over msrp for their cars. Because they know their customers WILL gladly pay that.

I mean, you really shouldn't take offense to it as I'm sure there are people who will say Camaro drivers think their crap doesn't stink or charger drivers or Silverado or RAM drivers, etc.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by serper3

You would basically be literally the only person to think the atom is better than a gt3 and would rather drive/own the atom over a gt3. also the atom isnt even a car really.

Really? Wouldn't someone who owns a GT3 would think an Ariel Atom is more or equal fun to drive?

I mean, a GT3 is a track car, right? The Ariel is a track car....so.....

Earlier this year I met a person who owned an Ariel and a newer Cayman GT4 at a road course. The guy said he enjoys driving his Atom over the GT4.

I'm sorry I'm not one of those that does like everyone else with cars. The Ariel is a better driver's car than a GT3 but the GT3 is more practical daily car than the Ariel.

[L78toLT1]

Originally Posted by dfxrte

did you watch the video btw? OP has no clue about the cars it seems either, claiming the chassis, sway bars, suspension differ LOL. My god, 1le guys have to do anything to justify their purchase lmao.


Great track video otherwise though, really shows how much better the zl1 is

I've just got to say, dude, that I would absolutely LOVE to run across you at virtually any track in my standard, non-1LE SS.

[zxspeedspec]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

I've just got to say, dude, that I would absolutely LOVE to run across you at virtually any track in my standard, non-1LE SS.

Brags about not having a 1LE. Does everything possible to throw ZL1 parts on his SS...

[CW3SF]

I’m just happy to see any Camaro owner tracking their cars. I’ll be out there tracking all summer with my 700whp non-1LE ZL1 and I’d be happy to log a few laps with any of you, 4 banger, V6, SS….whatever. And I won’t give 2 shits if any of you are faster than me, lol.

[SFV1LE]

Originally Posted by CW3SF

I’m just happy to see any Camaro owner tracking their cars. I’ll be out there tracking all summer with my 700whp non-1LE ZL1 and I’d be happy to log a few laps with any of you, 4 banger, V6, SS….whatever. And I won’t give 2 shits if any of you are faster than me, lol.

How does your 700 WHP ZL1 do on track in terms of heat management on those hot summer days?

The 2nd reason I wont touch my ZLE tune, pulley, etc is heat management, the stock car is still faster than me and if I had to worry about overheating it would ruin the experience for me. Stock tune I know I can hammer it all day in 100 F with no issues, and if anything happens my warranty will cover it.

Jannetty seems to have a good power adder solution with E85 and no pulley, I'd consider that first and then maybe a 2560 with a track-focused tune. But with 2650 fueling is an issue and I dont want to worry about going below 1/2 tank with a second pump tapped into the fuel tank, that's not a feasible solution for track IMO

[CW3SF]

Originally Posted by SFV1LE

How does your 700 WHP ZL1 do on track in terms of heat management on those hot summer days?

The 2nd reason I wont touch my ZLE tune, pulley, etc is heat management, the stock car is still faster than me and if I had to worry about overheating it would ruin the experience for me. Stock tune I know I can hammer it all day in 100 F with no issues, and if anything happens my warranty will cover it.

Jannetty seems to have a good power adder solution with E85 and no pulley, I'd consider that first and then maybe a 2560 with a track-focused tune. But with 2650 fueling is an issue and I dont want to worry about going below 1/2 tank with a second pump tapped into the fuel tank, that's not a feasible solution for track IMO

It was at 650whp on stock blower and stock pulleys last season and no heat soak issues whatsoever (mods in sig). Doing bigger throttle body, Big Gulp, Kong X porting, injectors and HPFP this winter but keeping stock pulleys. Should run even a little bit cooler next summer with increased intake airflow and with the stage x porting. The key is stock pulleys on the stock blower. GM did a nice job designing the cooling system for stock pulleys.

[Big Swole]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Because 90% of them think their crap doesn't stink. Porsche themselves are glad dealers are making their customers pay $50k over msrp for their cars. Because they know their customers WILL gladly pay that.

I mean, you really shouldn't take offense to it as I'm sure there are people who will say Camaro drivers think their crap doesn't stink or charger drivers or Silverado or RAM drivers, etc.

lol. OH make no mistake.. I didn't take offense at all. In fact I thought it was funny.

Yes, everything in life has stereotypes and rightly so due to a few / some / a lot / etc.

However, I'm about as blue collar as it gets and I've owned 5 Porsches over the years. I'm not some rich guy like what you're describing. I work TONS of OT to afford my toys. With what I do for a living, I'm VERY well aware of stereotypes and people's reactions to them lol

I will say this though. I've gotten to know a LOT of Porsche people, and there are many that fit the description you gave, however I don't think it's anywhere near 90%. Tons a great down to either people. One of my best friends had a Porsche when we met (that was the reason we met in fact) but he also had / has a 2015 Z28 and and 2004 Honda S2K and a Chevy Cruze.


Anyway...No harm no foul...Just remember though..The more we feed the "Stereotype" monsters, the worse this country becomes (I'm talking far bigger than a car owner here). Stereotyping is nothing short of and just as bad as straight up Racism IMO. We have to judge EACH and EVERY person on How THEY act and nothing else. What they drive can have ZERO to do with how they are as a person. This I can guarantee !!!! You'd never think I owned a Porsche. I'm just a guy finally getting a chance to realize some child hood dream cars of mine. I'm 50 BTW... No spring chicken here.

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by CW3SF

I’m just happy to see any Camaro owner tracking their cars. I’ll be out there tracking all summer with my 700whp non-1LE ZL1 and I’d be happy to log a few laps with any of you, 4 banger, V6, SS….whatever. And I won’t give 2 shits if any of you are faster than me, lol.

What, you wouldn't just point me by because you don't want me to be around you? (sarcasm, and a reference to an earlier comment to be clear)

I like you. You're exactly what it's like to be at the track: nobody gives a shit if you've got an R8 or a Miata - everyone's SUPER helpful and has a riot. I've shared some amazing nights w/ fellow racers around a campfire w/ some beers at the track, and everyone is just happy to be there.

[CW3SF]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

What, you wouldn't just point me by because you don't want me to be around you? (sarcasm, and a reference to an earlier comment to be clear)

I like you. You're exactly what it's like to be at the track: nobody gives a shit if you've got an R8 or a Miata - everyone's SUPER helpful and has a riot. I've shared some amazing nights w/ fellow racers around a campfire w/ some beers at the track, and everyone is just happy to be there.

Exactly. I have seen import cars making 1/3 of what our cars make run better lap times than anyone else on track.

[Big Swole]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Really? Wouldn't someone who owns a GT3 would think an Ariel Atom is more or equal fun to drive?

I mean, a GT3 is a track car, right? The Ariel is a track car....so.....

Earlier this year I met a person who owned an Ariel and a newer Cayman GT4 at a road course. The guy said he enjoys driving his Atom over the GT4.

I'm sorry I'm not one of those that does like everyone else with cars. The Ariel is a better driver's car than a GT3 but the GT3 is more practical daily car than the Ariel.

Just remember, that's your totally SUBJECTIVE opinion and not "Fact".

We all have those.

Really rich buddy (since the 6th grade) has many cars and had an Adam and a GT3 (now has a GT2RS). He like the Adam and sold it though. He much prefers the GT cars for track and mountains.

His opinion was totally Subjective also.

Only when you talk about actually performance stats and Nordschiefe times or Lightning Laps times, would you be talking about something that's Almost completely OBJECTIVE....

This is the beauty of our world... Everyone can like something different and be happy.