[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Umbriel

I guess that's why they make different cars, I feel completely the opposite when it comes to the interior of rhe car. As far as engine issues I researched and didn't really see anything out of the ordinary so I'm not worried about it at all.

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In which case, I think you are looking more at a GT car than a sports car if your emphasis is more on the interior over raw track performance. A GT car still has good performance, but the emphasis will be more on comfort.

Nothing wrong with that, but you gotta be a little more clear with what you want to have. Camaro is definitely more of a sports car than a GT car. M240i will lean more towards the GT car on that spectrum.

Originally Posted by LA_LT1

Today I drove the new G80 M3 at a BMW event... wow what a machine if you can get past the looks of the front end. If you need a 4 door with smoking performance, and a warranty- its the one to get.
BMW has come a long way with their EPS.

As an E92 M3 owner for 5 years.. I can tell you the S65 engine is special, but can't touch the LT1 when it comes to performance. The S65 does not have much torque, but revving it to 8400 RPM never gets old. If you like a 'honda' style power delivery you would love the S65 as it comes 'on cam' at 6,000 RPM and screams like a race engine with 8 ITBs. However, parts are expensive and the rod bearings will be need to be replaced. Over 50,000 miles I have spent close to $8K on maintenance, not including oil changes..with heavy 10W-60. Above 100 mph the BMW feels more stable than the Camaro.. maybe it has better aero and autobahn development.

The Camaro LT1 handles better than the E92 M3 did stock (below 100 mph), gets better fuel economy and feels much faster. I would rather have a Camaro than the new M4.

The E92 M3 is a special car but if you are used to LT1 torque you will likely be disappointed

I mean, I owned an RX-8 before, so your S65's torque is fine compared to the Renesis. Fuel-economy-wise, the RX-8 gets around the same gas mileage as my Camaro despite being lighter, making 1/2 of the peak power and 1/3 of the peak torque. Yet it was a very fun car that's nimble with the 9000 RPM redline and the unique rotary scream. There is nothing like VTEC, it just revs and revs smoothly until the shift beeper goes off.

S65 also sounds so good with the right exhaust. There was an E92 M3 that drove past me once and I just had to tell the owner how good the engine sounds. Much better than the weed whacker that is the S55.

And that's the thing, these cars don't have to beat the Camaro SS 1LE at the track to make you appreciate them, especially with the EV trend now, you will never see something like E9x M3 or Mazda rotary sports cars again. Yeah, these engines are more dramatic than an LT1, but I'd be willing to put up with the drama just because they are special. I would love to just keep an FD RX-7 around even though 70% of the time, it starts every time, LOL.

[Umbriel]

Originally Posted by LA_LT1

Today I drove the new G80 M3 at a BMW event... wow what a machine if you can get past the looks of the front end. If you need a 4 door with smoking performance, and a warranty- its the one to get.

BMW has come a long way with their EPS.



As an E92 M3 owner for 5 years.. I can tell you the S65 engine is special, but can't touch the LT1 when it comes to performance. The S65 does not have much torque, but revving it to 8400 RPM never gets old. If you like a 'honda' style power delivery you would love the S65 as it comes 'on cam' at 6,000 RPM and screams like a race engine with 8 ITBs. However, parts are expensive and the rod bearings will be need to be replaced. Over 50,000 miles I have spent close to $8K on maintenance, not including oil changes..with heavy 10W-60. Above 100 mph the BMW feels more stable than the Camaro.. maybe it has better aero and autobahn development.



The Camaro LT1 handles better than the E92 M3 did stock (below 100 mph), gets better fuel economy and feels much faster. I would rather have a Camaro than the new M4.



The E92 M3 is a special car but if you are used to LT1 torque you will likely be disappointed

The S65 is pretty old technology in the BMW world, the new M3s and M4s are both faster than any LT1 powered vehicle.

https://youtu.be/OG9GGu1jIQU

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[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Umbriel

The S65 is pretty old technology in the BMW world, the new M3s and M4s are both faster than any LT1 powered vehicle.

https://youtu.be/OG9GGu1jIQU

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It's not about being fast, it's about being special. There is a huge difference.

Want to be fast in a straight line? EV. Done. Yet there are no shortage of people here that will tell you why they wouldn't pick an EV, and a lot of those reasons aren't necessarily related to practicality.

Also for the video, there are some comments about the altitude affecting the performance of the C8 since NA engines are much more sensitive to air density than turbocharged engines.

[Umbriel]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

It's not about being fast, it's about being special. There is a huge difference.

Want to be fast in a straight line? EV. Done. Yet there are no shortage of people here that will tell you why they wouldn't pick an EV, and a lot of those reasons aren't necessarily related to practicality.

Also for the video, there are some comments about the altitude affecting the performance of the C8 since NA engines are much more sensitive to air density than turbocharged engines.

I was just talking about his comment about the older M3 engine. M4s not as much but M8s are very rare to see, the beer M4s are as well. C8s do nothing for me.
And I just read the track is at 2600 ft, that isn't bad and I thought you meant like 5500 or something.
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[sactownbwoy]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

In which case, I think you are looking more at a GT car than a sports car if your emphasis is more on the interior over raw track performance. A GT car still has good performance, but the emphasis will be more on comfort.

Nothing wrong with that, but you gotta be a little more clear with what you want to have. Camaro is definitely more of a sports car than a GT car. M240i will lean more towards the GT car on that spectrum.



I mean, I owned an RX-8 before, so your S65's torque is fine compared to the Renesis. Fuel-economy-wise, the RX-8 gets around the same gas mileage as my Camaro despite being lighter, making 1/2 of the peak power and 1/3 of the peak torque. Yet it was a very fun car that's nimble with the 9000 RPM redline and the unique rotary scream. There is nothing like VTEC, it just revs and revs smoothly until the shift beeper goes off.

S65 also sounds so good with the right exhaust. There was an E92 M3 that drove past me once and I just had to tell the owner how good the engine sounds. Much better than the weed whacker that is the S55.

And that's the thing, these cars don't have to beat the Camaro SS 1LE at the track to make you appreciate them, especially with the EV trend now, you will never see something like E9x M3 or Mazda rotary sports cars again. Yeah, these engines are more dramatic than an LT1, but I'd be willing to put up with the drama just because they are special. I would love to just keep an FD RX-7 around even though 70% of the time, it starts every time, LOL.

I miss my '94 FD I had in Japan. I need to get stationed over there again so I can bring one back. Nothing like a rotary.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

BMW just doesn't have a good track record with their V8s. S65 had a lot of issues with the main bearings as well. I don't think that will be changing.

It’s not just their v8’s. The straight 6 in the e46 m3 had rod bearing issues as well. The v10 in the I believe e60 m5 and m6 had the worst rod bearing issues. I will give them credit though for the e39 m5 v8 engine. That engine was very good. I actually have one in my living room as a coffee table haha.

Another epic German engine that has unfortunate issues was the 6.2 liter v8 in the 08-12ish c63 amg. That had head bolt issues and the camshafts could also run into problems.

It sucks that those companies make cool engines but unfortunately they cost an arm and a leg to maintain.

[Camaro fanboy]

ask scotty kilmer what he thinks lol

[Camaro fanboy]

look at old s class mercedes..back in the day many said the greatest car made. can pick them up for 800 usd once 15 years old..
german cars go out of date real quick. one to two years after you have bought it it'll be replaced and updated.
i've been around a long time and seen 100k cars worth almost scrap value in no time.
any 2 door coupe will hold it's value more though

[Umbriel]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Good video on the interior.

IMO, it is MUCH more exotic than an M4 and looks like it over an M8 as well.



We start to get into the huge bias situations where BMW owners excuse "miles of plastic" in their own cars, somehow thinking their interiors are chiseled from solid gold, inlaid with diamonds and goat-balls leather.

Ok so after watching it I still like the M cars interior better and he said the perfect thing when he said the car looks like it's wearing a super car body kit, it's just an awkward looking car. I will say I like the C63 AMG interior better than the M cars.

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[Nilly Welson]

BMW... a Camaro SS Alternative???

[Nilly Welson]

The majority of BMW drivers are women. What does that tell you.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Fak_Ork

I post this as a serious shopper of both of these cars, Camaro 1SS or the Bmw M240i. The Camaro warranty is 1 year longer but goes out of bumper to bumper 1 year earlier. I've read that these cars if maintained diligently can give reliable service, but repairs won't be cheap.

Anyone else cross shop these automotive birds of a feather?

I went from a 2015 M235i 6-speed to a 2018 2SS 1LE and now am back in a BMW 2 Series, but this time it's the M2 Competition.

The M235i was a nice blend of luxury and sporty performance. It handled great, had decent straight line performance, and had adjustable suspension that rode more like a luxury car than a sports car. The overall quality and fit and finish were better than any car I had ever owned. I loved it at first. But after a couple years I wanted more. Something that stood out more looks-wise. Something more explosive and raw.

Onto the 2SS 1LE. Can't complain about the Camaro at all. Had it for 3 years, did three HPDE track days, and it never gave me one lick of trouble. Looked great, sounded great, and was the closest thing to a race car that I had ever owned. It was menacing and badass. I loved it more than the M235i. Easily.

I owned a 2015 Mini 6-speed at the same time. Fun car and much more practical and convenient as a daily driver than the Camaro. Easier to get in and out of, smaller and easier to drive and park, and the hatch offered much more storage.

But then came the pandemic, working from home, and a lot less driving. Also, I'm nearing retirement, and I decided to downsize to a single car that could double as a daily driver and once-a-year track car.

Came back to a BMW and am really happy with the M2. The M235i wasn't quite enough. The Camaro was too much. The M2 is just right. It's Goldilocks. It's just the right size. Has plenty of power. Looks plenty aggressive with the fender bulges and stance, without being over the top or gaudy.

I do miss the sound and fury of the Camaro, but the M2 is just much better as a daily driver, and is very close to the Camaro in performance.

[Fak_Ork]

Originally Posted by wjones14

I went from a 2015 M235i 6-speed to a 2018 2SS 1LE and now am back in a BMW 2 Series, but this time it's the M2 Competition.

The M235i was a nice blend of luxury and sporty performance. It handled great, had decent straight line performance, and had adjustable suspension that rode more like a luxury car than a sports car. The overall quality and fit and finish were better than any car I had ever owned. I loved it at first. But after a couple years I wanted more. Something that stood out more looks-wise. Something more explosive and raw.

Onto the 2SS 1LE. Can't complain about the Camaro at all. Had it for 3 years, did three HPDE track days, and it never gave me one lick of trouble. Looked great, sounded great, and was the closest thing to a race car that I had ever owned. It was menacing and badass. I loved it more than the M235i. Easily.

I owned a 2015 Mini 6-speed at the same time. Fun car and much more practical and convenient as a daily driver than the Camaro. Easier to get in and out of, smaller and easier to drive and park, and the hatch offered much more storage.

But then came the pandemic, working from home, and a lot less driving. Also, I'm nearing retirement, and I decided to downsize to a single car that could double as a daily driver and once-a-year track car.

Came back to a BMW and am really happy with the M2. The M235i wasn't quite enough. The Camaro was too much. The M2 is just right. It's Goldilocks. It's just the right size. Has plenty of power. Looks plenty aggressive with the fender bulges and stance, without being over the top or gaudy.

I do miss the sound and fury of the Camaro, but the M2 is just much better as a daily driver, and is very close to the Camaro in performance.

Appreciate this post and others, we're really getting to the heart of the matter, nice looking car, BTW!

I have a Silverado diesel that I'm not planning on selling or trading so I will always have a solid daily driving choice for all seasons which may lean me towards the Camaro 1SS, especially since I think the reliability is likely to be solid as you and others have noted.

Would love the M2 or M3 but price and value lean me towards the Camaro. I was actually planning on renting ANY C6 Camaro- regardless of drivetrain- for a day or two and seeing if I can use it. It's really a hell of a bang-for-buck car and I think the SS Trim with it's track cooling hardware, better styling, fatter rear tires, better dash and electronics (but without going all the way to 1LE crazy level) is a good balance.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

The new 2 series has gained weight. A 240i x-drive is crazy heavy, as in 3871. 3871. Let that sink in. That is embarrassingly heavy for the size of the car. For this I wouldn't consider it. If I'm buying a car that SIZE, I want the WEIGHT to be lower. If I'm buying a bigger car, I'm willing to sacrifice some weight to have a bigger car. It should be the same going smaller.

An M2C would be a different matter. It's got the weight to HP ratio that kind of makes up for this. Would be nice to be a little lighter, but it's turning out to be a monster on the track. Still, with BMW costs and dealer markups, this ends up being at least 70K, 80+ at my dealership.

Yes, that's freakin' heavy. Car and Driver listed the 2019 A10 Camaro SS as 3788, but word is that the M240i will be released in a RWD trim so time will tell. For a 4 year 'own it and return it' experience, I think I'd still lean towards the BMW. For something to leave in the garage for some time as a swan song to ICE and V8 power, it's hard to beat the Camaro SS and it's legit but still high-value sports car config.

Like the weird new Coke Zero commercials are fond of saying 'You have to try it". Going to try to rent a Camaro with any of the 3 motors to see if I can actually get in and out and enjoy the driving experience.

Originally Posted by Nilly Welson

The majority of BMW drivers are women. What does that tell you.

That men need to step it up and get earning.

[Cocopuf]

Originally Posted by EV2DEMON

You could not be more incorrect. I say that as the owner of a 1LE and an M40i. Are all BMWs exciting? No, but neither is the Malibu.

FYI, the B58 is an inline 6, not a V6.

I agree with you, my 2020 x3m comp is far from boring, and just as fun as my 2ss 1le