07-26-2023, 10:13 AM | #57 |
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I still maintain the advertising or lack thereof, is partly, directly due to the sales slide of the Camaro.
What happened starting around the mid-90s, as sales started to skid toward first production halt in 2002? Well, for one thing I know, Chevy abandoned the "Heartbeat of America" campaign. That ended by around 1994-95. People can ignore it all they want but I'm telling you, it was one of THE greatest ad campaigns for a car division EVER. That combined with Bob Seager's "Like A Rock" for the Silverados, and Chevy was THE advertising powerhouse in the automobile business.
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07-26-2023, 10:40 AM | #58 | |
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2018 2SS M6 Hot Wheels Camaro loaded (Moonroof, Magnetic Ride Control, NPP, etc…)
Previous cars: 2017 1SS Nightfall Gray Metallic w/A8 and NPP 1988 IROC-Z (tons of mods), 1995 Z28, 1998 Z28, 2006 GTO, 2010 Camaro 1SS, 2015 Subaru STI, a couple Acuras and multiple Jeeps. |
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07-26-2023, 06:38 PM | #59 | |
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You know full well how untrue that is, people buy absolute pieces of garbage every day simply because of the perception expertly woven for them and echoed by the "influencers" these people listen to, often subconsciously. The Camaro has a ton of advantages, so it isn't even a difficult product to highlight the qualities of. It's quite a surprise how you of all people in the forums can so severely underestimate the power of the lumascape.
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735 rwhp | 665 rwtq Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune 1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18 3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18 3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18 4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18 4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18 5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18 |
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07-26-2023, 06:57 PM | #60 | |
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
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07-26-2023, 07:41 PM | #61 | |
Hail to the King baby!
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07-26-2023, 08:37 PM | #62 | |
Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Jul 2017
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I don't think anybody suggesting more advertising would also advocate for standing still and just trying to sell the same product with more and more aggressive marketing/ad campaigns and nothing else. The lack of advertising certainly hurt this car, and I know you hate sounding like a broken record, but you keep referencing this one data point from a decade ago as if that was an immutable conclusion that shall never be changed or challenged. One more small thing: you are still "in the system", ie your mindset is heavily influenced by your in-depth involvement with GM, but we "critics" exist outside this corporation. Never hurts to ditch some basic assumptions, sometimes even data, to avoid getting stuck in an echo chamber and a specific corporate culture. I fell into the same trap over and over again, so please don't take it as preaching, this applies to all of us.
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2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6
735 rwhp | 665 rwtq Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune 1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18 3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18 3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18 4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18 4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18 5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18 |
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07-26-2023, 09:12 PM | #63 | |
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For the second time in a generation this company has decided it can't be bothered to compete with Ford in this market segment. Tragic. |
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07-27-2023, 12:06 AM | #64 | |
Drives: People crazy with my sexiness Join Date: Jun 2023
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You put any Camaro against the same model year Mustang head to head with equivalent trim, options, engines, and transmissions, and the Camaro is the better car. GM’s engineers got it. The upper level management never did. If they did, they’d have put Zora Arkus Duntov and John DeLorean together to develop anything that was in their minds, then build it for huge profit because rich people would pay for a car the two of them combined would have come up with. Then you advertise the hell out of it to promote it while linking said Supercar to being from the same company that brings you the Chevelle and Impala. The Ford GT 40 would have been child’s play.
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07-27-2023, 08:19 PM | #65 | |
Hail to the King baby!
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You are correct, much of the Gen6 was determined around 2011 or 12. I actually got to see the first early clays for the Gen6 and I swear to god it was a 7/8 scale Gen5. And this was before I left in 2011. Those decisions, however, were architectural. So like your house, you can change cabinets or counter tops but changing the layout is very expensive. So changing the car to have more trunk space, better rear seat room and better visibility was hugely expensive and something TV ads would never fix. Now at the point GM realized it had failed, there was no business case to redo the car, e.g. a CT5 coupe rather than a CT5 front for the V8 and a CT4 rear for size and weight. So we were left to watch our beloved Camaro waste away to the end. Now what comes next is actually exciting for me. I just hope the Camaro name stays on a coupe.
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07-28-2023, 09:00 AM | #66 |
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I take issue with the argument that the Camaro was a design "failure". We have all suffered through this so-called argument as if it's an accepted fact that must be agreed to simply because it's been non-stop repeated by a few, or maybe just one, actually...lol...Someone with a grudge against Ed Welburn is not the last word on how the Camaro should have been built.
Take it or leave it. The Camaro stood on it's own. It never had to be a car for everyone. It outsold Challenger for many years even with the so-called design flaws. The Challenger advertised the crap out of their car, and sales took off for them. GM ads are the most cringe-worthy ever made (Remember "Real People" ads?...lol) Thank goodness the Camaro was not showcased in those. Sales might have gotten worse...lol... IMO Camaro tried to distance itself from the retro-vibe (which made it a success and sales leader) whereas Dodge and Mustang did not. All moot now. GM will kill anything they make with no logical reasoning. And they will advertise needlessly on losers like Cadillac. Advertising is a waste of money these days. Others do it for them for free. |
07-28-2023, 09:45 AM | #67 |
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God those stupid JD Power ads were so vanilla it made vanilla look flamboyant.
Failure from a sales/market share perspective I suppose, but not a fail in the performance category which is where we generally live. I think marketing may have brought more attention in the front door but the compromises for the buyer are still there, which are primarily visibility and practicality so I get what 3 is saying in that respect. As far as retro... I'm tired of it. I was tired of it at the end of the 5. I was bummed when the 6 looked very much like the 5. I was hoping for something new while still having the traceable heritage in the lines. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the 6 and I've owned 2 so far. But still would have liked something new & different. Curious to see what comes down the tube.
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07-28-2023, 06:45 PM | #68 |
Hail to the King baby!
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Ok, one last try.
First, GM has so much data on this that they know advertising won’t help. The “Internet collective intelligence” knows better than alllllll of that data. I LOVE MY CAMARO, ITS THE BEST CAR EVER” is the Camaro buyer GM designed the car for. It’s just not the car for someone who wanted an “expressive coupe”. Many are probably too young for this but when the Camaro died in the very early 2000s, V8 sales were on par with Mustang. What was way off was non V8 sales. My guess is today it’s about the same. To be profitable, you need volume and having not seen the real numbers, I’ll bet GM planned on 80,000 units, similar to the Gen5. That never happened. So from a GM perspective the Gen6 was not only a failure it was a catastrophe that killed any chance of a an ICE Gen7. If you believe the same Chevy exec that approved ads for the Silverado mindlessly rejected commercials for the Camaro knowing his or her bonus depended on it, well that’s just the internet arm chair quarterbacks that are CERTAIN they are smarter than GM. I get that but it’s sadly just not true. Stallantis advertised Charger and Challenger simply because it’s all they had. An outdated minivan, Journey SUV and a very old Durango that’s only claim to fame is also powertrain. None of which sold. Dodge by all business measures is dead but continues somehow. Believe if you want, but GM has data that would suggest advertising the Camaro is fruitless. The “murican muscle” crowd knows or has one. But GM knows who they designed the car for AND they know that the people they DID NOT design the car for aren’t open to a “expressive sporty coupe” that is hard to see out of (sorry guys glad you love yours, it’s just true) limited trunk space (sorry but a standard length driver won’t fit in the trunk, gen5 was easy for two sets of clubs) and rear seat room (at launch GM admitted they gave up on his as Consumer Reports made no differentiation for coupes). For years now so many have tried to say they are smarter than GM and even smarter than my wife who undergrad and masters is in marketing AND she worked at Chevy on Corvette with the Camaro team, and the internet allllll knows better. Sorry, I’m an executive in the industry and I have experience and knowledge that would suggest different. So to state the Camaro demise is due to GM advertising is just silly. Listen to this, “I know more than GM and alll of the customer data they have and years of experience they have and because Dodge did cool ads with Vin Diesel they must be wrong and I’m right” Sorry, I just know better. But you armchair ad execs keep blasting away.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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07-28-2023, 07:26 PM | #69 |
Drives: 2018 ss Join Date: May 2018
Location: Tampa
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Am i missing something on this thread. It seems like
People believe its GM's fault or their design team For the demise of the camaro. Someone on this Site already showed the government mandate To terminate all muscle cars by 2024. I read it Straight from uncle sam. Not a coincidence They all ceased together. Imports too. Like digital tv, it just happened and there waa Nothing we could do about it. |
07-28-2023, 07:35 PM | #70 | |
Drives: 2023 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
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