[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Not from my experience. I have had both manual and automatic Coyotes, the manual easily trapped higher. Same goes for the new SS Camaros. It's just that we have seen many more automatics hit the track. My friend constantly traps in the high 116 range in crap 3000 DA in his stock manual, and Car and Driver hit 118 in their manual tester. Takes good drivers...

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-driver-page-2



Be prepared to be disappointed if that is what you think. Once the Motor Trend Laguna Seca times are officially released, there is going to be lots of butt hurt going around...and not just from GT350 owners...


Not really, as the base GT suspension/wheel/tire package is terrible. .83g skidpad, braking from 70 mph, 175'. Those are pretty bad numbers for a performance car.

"The basic Mustang GT is a floater. Ford has chosen a relatively mushy suspension tune that makes the GT a serene choice for long highway trips but a slightly squishier steed on the twisty sections. At times, such as when crossing onto the varied surfaces of bridge overpasses at 70 mph, the nose develops a distinctly vintage circular bob as the circa-3800-pound car does a slight shimmy and porpoise at the same time. Undulations can really work over the base GT’s springs, while the all-season tires can ruin a good switchback with some squealing understeer."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ic-test-review

who says they don't build them like the use to?

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by hotlap

who says they don't build them like the use to?

Very boat-like, no?

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

You totally missed the point. He was talking about Mustang to Mustang in relation to trap speeds...nothing to due with GM transmissions, or cars for that matter.




Yes, good running. You contradicted your own question with a statement. Do you have much experience running at the track? Autos are not just about putting it in D and mashing the throttle all the time. Track prep, and yes the drivers foot control can make a big difference too. I mean you keep bringing up this forums fast list, go look at it for the autos...there is a SEVEN tenths of a second spread. Some owners are just better at reading track conditions (better drivers), and some cars just hook better, some don't...all of that equals a "good running" car. That's what the term is at the track when someones car is putting down better times then an equal one, it's "good running", or "runs good". It's not just about DA to get a huge spread like that...

I didn't miss anything. You said that the camaro was just like the mustang as far as auto and manual trap speed. And was part of your basis for argument initially. Getting hard to keep track of them all now. I agree the mustang manuals trap higher. I just chose to not comment on his post.

Keep diverting... I'm talking about trap speeds. Not nearly as affected by driver error. And we even had a professional make 100 passes in a day and could not trap higher than the auto... I'm sure you will be the exception. Fraxum has been racing for years and has a 114 trap which is just as high anyone else on the list so far.

So far I'm just not seeing that the manual is trapping higher. It could change. That is all.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

I didn't miss anything.

And we even had a professional make 100 passes in a day and could not trap higher than the auto...

Sure you did...I clearly posted how the professional Jeff Lutz, stated in the video interview posted months ago that he was very green driving manuals at the track. As his current race cars are all transbrake cars. Just because you race one type of car doesn't make you the greatest at them all. A few on this forum have beat his time as well. There are so many variables....

But if you want to get technical, the Hot Rod story you keep talking about, I just went and looked it up again, seems you're incorrect, as the manual did have the highest trap speed with it's best slip of the day, when compared to the autos best slip...

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Sure you did...I clearly posted how the professional Jeff Lutz, stated in the video interview posted months ago that he was very green driving manuals at the track. As his current race cars are all transbrake cars. Just because you race one type of car doesn't make you the greatest at them all. A few on this forum have beat his time as well. There are so many variables....

But if you want to get technical, the Hot Rod story you keep talking about, I just went and looked it up again, seems you're incorrect, as the manual did have the highest trap speed of the day...

That's no different. Less than half mph could be from anything. And still proves you wrong lmao. And it showed best et. They did not say that was the fastest trap. You are assuming. Nice try though.

He couldn't get the hang of it after all day? I know you are smarter than that. I think you just like to argue for the fun of it. And the trap speed is not as affected which you keep missing. And surely not by 2-3 mph.

Again... You only have assumptions and what ifs. So far all the evidence is showing no trap advantage for the m6.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Look out! Mutiny!

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

That's no different. Less than half mph could be from anything. And still proves you wrong lmao. And it showed best et. They did not say that was the fastest trap. You are assuming. Nice try though.

He couldn't get the hang of it after all day? I know you are smarter than that. I think you just like to argue for the fun of it. And the trap speed is not as affected which you keep missing. And surely not by 2-3 mph.

Again... You only have assumptions and what ifs. So far all the evidence is showing no trap advantage for the m6.

You don't even know what you say man, and you keep back peddling. You said (screenshot attached) that after 100 passes a pro couldn't match the autos trap speed, when he clearly did. When someone wants to see your best pass, it's ET based no? No argument that the auto ran quicker that day, but that wasn't your point you kept bringing up. The two cars best slips show the manual with a better trap speed. Could have been one hundredth, point was you made like it didn't, when in fact it did. You can't even admit that?

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

You don't even know what you say man, and you keep back peddling. You said (screenshot attached) that after 100 passes a pro couldn't match the autos trap speed, when he clearly did. When someone wants to see your best pass, it's ET based no? No argument that the auto ran quicker that day, but that wasn't your point you kept bringing up. The two cars best slips show the manual with a better trap speed. Could have been one hundredth, point was you made like it didn't, when in fact it did. You can't even admit that?

That was the best ET for both. We don't know the highest traps for the cars that day. On those two passes obviously yes. But im not sure what that really proves.

Youd think they would mention it in the article if it had a 2-3 mph advantage like you are trying to say from the beginning. That's all I was getting at. Don't you think we would have found out after 100s of passes and running them all day if the manual had a higher average trap? They would have mentioned it trust me.

Funny you jumping all over this but GM numbers, the fast list and fraxum and snowblind same night mean nothing. It was just one of 4 gigantic pieces of evidence I have against the 2-3 mph trap advantage you think it somehow has that no one has discovered or been able to replicate yet.

So in another year you are saying that the m6 fast list will be averaging 117-119 mph? You insist it has a trap advantage. That is what will be needed at minimum to average 2-3 mph more than the auto. We will see. And trust me I wont forget.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

That was the best ET for both. We don't know the highest traps for the cars that day. On those two passes obviously yes. But im not sure what that really proves.

I got it, it doesn't fit what you want to hear, so it doesn't matter...

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Youd think they would mention it in the article if it had a 2-3 mph advantage like you are trying to say from the beginning. That's all I was getting at. Don't you think we would have found out after 100s of passes and running them all day if the manual had a higher average trap? They would have mentioned it trust me.

Say what? I never said the manual SS had a 2-3 mph advantage, not sure where you pulled that out of. I said I had a friend close to 117 in crap air, and that C&D hit 118 in their test. Just to show they are very capable. No where did I state manuals have a 2-3 mph trap advantage, as they don't.

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Funny you jumping all over this but GM numbers, the fast list and fraxum and snowblind same night mean nothing.

Different drivers, so it's pretty meaningless.

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

So in another year you are saying that the m6 fast list will be averaging 117-119 mph? You insist it has a trap advantage. that is what will be needed if not more to average 2-3 mph more than the auto. We will see. And trust me I wont forget.

Again, I never said this. You like to put words in peoples mouths to try to prove your point?

So when are you getting yours?

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

I got it, it doesn't fit what you want to hear, so it doesn't matter...



Say what? I never said the manual had a 2-3 mph advantage, not sure where you pulled that out of. I said I had a friend close to 117 in crap air, and that C&D hit 118 in their test. No where did I state manuals have a 2-3 mph trap advantage, as they don't.


Different drivers, so it's pretty meaningless.



Again, I never said this.

So when are you getting yours?

You said it earlier. That it was just like the mustangs you had. So if its not at least 2 mph why are we even having this discussion? trying to prove 1 mph is kinda hard and not enough difference to matter anyways. And no matter what with a manual you can always lean on the driver excuse in light of any data we shall receive. Which you have done.

Trap speeds on the same night even with different drivers isn't meaningless. He's no rookie either. Hes never been able to trap as high as him on any night ever. Nor has anyone else on the list for that matter.

Doesn't fit what I want to hear so I ignore? Kind of like you looking really foolish by totally disregarding the fact that the people who made the car say it traps 116 compared to the manual at 115.

I had a 16 on order but had to sell my truck to get it. Thought better of the decision and am hoping to find a used 1ss a8 next summer for 30k. Hope I don't regret it but I want to frequent the strip a lot with these cars and manuals have always held me back. Only took my 4th and 5th gen to the track once each. Fear of breakage. With the 4th gen it was the 10 bolt and with the 5th gen and now 6th gen you cant make a hard run on slicks with a manual without constant fear of breakage. So as you were asking earlier I do have some track experience.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

You said it earlier. That it was just like the mustangs you had. So if its not at least 2 mph why are we even having this discussion? trying to prove 1 mph is kinda hard and not enough difference to matter anyways.

Never said it in relation to Camaros. Go read my posts again...my Coyotes were what I was talking about as the manual trapping 2-3 mph more with the same mods. I never started this 2-3 mph thing in relation to Camaros dude, you did lol. I know there isn't a 2-3 mph gap, come on now. My point was simply a well driven manual can trap higher than an auto, that's all.

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Trap speeds on the same night even with different drivers isn't meaningless. He's no rookie either. Hes never been able to trap as high as him on any night ever. Nor has anyone else on the list for that matter.

Still not a good comparison when snows car is one of the top cars ET wise, and fraxs isn't. Too many variables.

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Doesn't fit what I want to hear so I ignore? Kind of like you looking really foolish by totally disregarding the fact that the people who made the car say it traps 116 compared to the manual at 115.

Stop going by what car makers say as estimates lol. GM's have been proven wrong with the manual in many cases already. It's called marketing...

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

I had a 16 on order but had to sell my truck to get it. Though better of the decision and am hoping to find a 1ss a8 next summer for 30k. Hope I don't regret it but I want to frequent the strip a lot with these cars and manuals have always held me back. Only took my 4th and 5th gen to the track once each. Fear of breakage. With the 4th gen it was the 10 bolt and with the 5th gen and now 6th gen you cant make a hard run on slicks with a manual without constant fear of breakage. So as you were asking earlier I do have some track experience.

Well good luck with your search next year. Been in the same boat with my 4th gen, ended up doing a Strange 12-bolt. 5000 rpm clutch drops and not one issue after two blown up 10-bolts. A 6th gen on drag radials is the best bet, my buddy has over 100 passes on his, no issues. Slicks, just do an axle upgrade. This car will be more of an autocross and road course car for me, hense my wait for an 1LE. It will see some passes though. But I have another car primarily for that. But for just drag racing, these new autos are great. Just not sure I would want to loose the fun factor on the street?

Bottom line, no ill will from me, just friendly internet banter.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Never said it in relation to Camaros. Go read my posts again...my Coyotes were what I was talking about as the manual trapping 2-3 mph more with the same mods. I never started this 2-3 mph thing in relation to Camaros dude, you did lol. I know there isn't a 2-3 mph gap, come on now. My point was simply a well driven manual can trap higher than an auto, that's all.

Still not a good comparison when snows car is one of the top cars ET wise, and fraxs isn't. Too many variables.



Stop going by what car makers say as estimates lol. GM's have been proven wrong with the manual in many cases already. It's called marketing...


Well good luck with your search next year. Been in the same boat with my 4th gen, ended up doing a Strange 12-bolt. 5000 rpm clutch drops and not one issue after two blown up 10-bolts. A 6th gen on drag radials is the best bet, my buddy has over 100 passes on his, no issues. Slicks, just do an axle upgrade. This car will be more of an autocross and road course car for me, hense my wait for an 1LE. It will see some passes though. But I have another car primarily for that. But for just drag racing, these new autos are great. Just not sure I would want to loose the fun factor on the street?

Bottom line, no ill will from me, just friendly internet banter.

Easily and then very next sentence same goes for the new Camaro. Post 36. Not sure why we wasted all this time over 1 mph but ok. Your post fooled me that's for sure.

thanks and same here.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Easily and then very next sentence same goes for the new Camaro. Post 36. Not sure why we wasted all this time over 1 mph but ok. Your post fooled me that's for sure.

thanks and same here.

Yup, and I said nothing in relation to the manual Camaros trapping 2-3 mph more lol...guess if you read it fast it may have been misleading somewhat.

Either way, no harm done. Have a good evening.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Yup, and I said nothing in relation to the manual Camaros trapping 2-3 mph more lol...guess if you read it fast it may have been misleading somewhat.

Either way, no harm done. Have a good evening.

u 2

Sure helped kill some time at work...long shift 1130am-1am today...so thanks for that lol