[nester7929]

Originally Posted by axis

There's no way it will come in at $50k. A premium GT is near $40k right now. Add in a different engine, carbon ceramic brakes, and better suspension for $10-12k? The brakes alone will cost that much. I'd bet it falls in the $65k range. You can bet they'll price it less than a Z/28. The question is, how much less.

The premium GT has leather seats and a bunch of extras though; if the GT350 is a stripped track car like the outgoing Boss, it's probably more accurate to compare it to a standard GT. These run about 33k, and it's not a stretch to imagine Ford getting good results by adding 17k of powertrain upgrades to a standard GT.

It's also worth noting that the GT350 is probably the third tier of a four tier lineup. If you have a GT for 33k and a GT500 for 60k, a 50k GT350 makes sense. People who just want the power without all the extra crap will be able to have the option. Kind of like the SRT Core.

[axis]

Originally Posted by nester7929

The premium GT has leather seats and a bunch of extras though; if the GT350 is a stripped track car like the outgoing Boss, it's probably more accurate to compare it to a standard GT. These run about 33k, and it's not a stretch to imagine Ford getting good results by adding 17k of powertrain upgrades to a standard GT.

It's also worth noting that the GT350 is probably the third tier of a four tier lineup. If you have a GT for 33k and a GT500 for 60k, a 50k GT350 makes sense. People who just want the power without all the extra crap will be able to have the option. Kind of like the SRT Core.

I might be 50k for a starting point. I could see them going with Ricaro seats or something along that line, which would make it even more expensive. Car companies don't necessarily subtract money for taking stuff off top end specialty cars. Hopefully we'll see just how much it comes to.

[derklug]

I'm still pissed that a new GT is supposed to outperform my Boss. Wife won't be happy when I tell her it is time to upgrade.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by derklug

I'm still pissed that a new GT is supposed to outperform my Boss. Wife won't be happy when I tell her it is time to upgrade.

These things happen. Performance must always increase to allow them to stay alive. Stagnation of the car would be far worse fate I do believe.

Boss302 is still a badass performer if I do say so myself. But that's just this one man's humble opinion.

[01pewterz28]

It's a Mustang YAWN

[joelster]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First of all a Coyote or VooDoo is not a more "high tech" engine than an LS7. DOHC does not make it more high tech. Just allows it to rev higher which is how you get HP out of smaller displacements.

Again, read all the other threads. Take a 1LE, add the hand built LS7, add CC brakes, add the tires, add the one off wheels, add all the very low volume special aero bits and pieces, add the very low volume low weight bits and pieces, add those wonderful F1 developed shock absorbers and you get a $75,000 car. It is really that simple. Unless you want GM to lose crap loads of money on each one. In which case start a thread on why GM is charitable enough to sell the Z/28 for less than a Cruze LT.

Ford will run into the same problem. The Boss was a lot more than a GT as I recall. Take the Boss, add IRS, add CC brakes, add a hand built or low volume engine, add some low weight panels parts and bits and you won't get a $50,000 GT350 any more than you can get a $50,000 Z/28....................unless Ford wants to lose money on every one they sell.

Oh and yes, it is a wonderful time to be an enthusiast. But our clock is ticking. IC engines of large displacement will become very expensive and very rare.

The Coyote engine is much more sophisticated then the LS7. The ability to move the intake/exhaust camshafts independent of each other allows for a staggering powerband (rpm range). Spread them out at low rpm, and it idles like Grandma's Malibu. At high rpm, tighten them up for some overlap to jump start the intake event, and it'll scream to 7500rpm. 4-valves per cylinder allows much more air/fuel in, especially at lower valve lifts. There is really no comparison, the Coyote is simply a better engine. The LS7 is a very powerful engine, no doubt, but its "tech" is simply a set of heads that can flow 350cfm, and 7.0 liters of displacement. Sure you swap a camshaft into it and get crazy power, but then its idle will suffer and low rpm emissions will suffer.

[joelster]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Remember Ford's BOSS program? A Base BOSS, and the hotter-handling LS? They'll likely do something similar, this time...just about the time the lighter Gen-6 Camaro appears with the possibilities of LT1 AND LT4 power.

GT350 for $50-55K, without the C-C brakes and best-handling suspension/rolling stock. The "traditional" Mustang fan will grab it...because it'll be the straight line hero and "who cares about 'Ring times?"

I hope you are right with those numbers, lol. If so, I will take one for a spin. I don't need carbon brakes to drive on the street. I wish Chevy would offer a Z/28 with standard brakes and a pricetag in the $50k range.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by axis

I might be 50k for a starting point. I could see them going with Ricaro seats or something along that line, which would make it even more expensive. Car companies don't necessarily subtract money for taking stuff off top end specialty cars. Hopefully we'll see just how much it comes to.

They might not all take prices down for a stripped down version (ZL1-Z/28 come to mind) but some do to an extent.

If they did, GM would sell 3 Z/28s and a few thousand 1LEs with an LS7...which I must admit would be cool.

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by joelster

The Coyote engine is much more sophisticated then the LS7. The ability to move the intake/exhaust camshafts independent of each other allows for a staggering powerband (rpm range). Spread them out at low rpm, and it idles like Grandma's Malibu. At high rpm, tighten them up for some overlap to jump start the intake event, and it'll scream to 7500rpm. 4-valves per cylinder allows much more air/fuel in, especially at lower valve lifts. There is really no comparison, the Coyote is simply a better engine. The LS7 is a very powerful engine, no doubt, but its "tech" is simply a set of heads that can flow 350cfm, and 7.0 liters of displacement. Sure you swap a camshaft into it and get crazy power, but then its idle will suffer and low rpm emissions will suffer.

It is not really that simple. One measure of engineering is the level of complexity required to achieve a certain goal. What you call sophistication, most engineers consider complexity. Sometimes it is a necessary evil, but, as an engineer I can tell you that the reason other engineers love/admire/rave about the LS7 (and LS family in general) is its combination of size, weight, brake specific fuel consumption, power output, and simplicity. I'm not trashing Ford motors, or DOHC motors, or complex motors. They are made in large numbers, and are commonly reliable, but the complexity is an order of magnitude above a pushrod motor. They also produce more power for a given displacement, and, for some reason, that matters to a lot of people. They are also typically easier to market as "advanced" or "sophisticated", because they have more moving parts.

[87GNX]

Originally Posted by joelster

The Coyote engine is much more sophisticated then the LS7. The ability to move the intake/exhaust camshafts independent of each other allows for a staggering powerband (rpm range). Spread them out at low rpm, and it idles like Grandma's Malibu. At high rpm, tighten them up for some overlap to jump start the intake event, and it'll scream to 7500rpm. 4-valves per cylinder allows much more air/fuel in, especially at lower valve lifts. There is really no comparison, the Coyote is simply a better engine. The LS7 is a very powerful engine, no doubt, but its "tech" is simply a set of heads that can flow 350cfm, and 7.0 liters of displacement. Sure you swap a camshaft into it and get crazy power, but then its idle will suffer and low rpm emissions will suffer.

+1.....Ls7 is a great motor it's just simple and low tech. Two diff engines completely.

[ackeight]

It's funny that people are favoring more sophisticated engines. Aviation has done that when in the age of tech boom. Now they want reduced part counts some as much as 50% from one model to the next in airframe and engines. KISS method. Ls7 can be every much of a competitor to any internal combustion engine used on a production car with some exceptions. I'm not bashing the ford motors, just saying I'm quite satisfied with my "old school" lsx.

[shaffe]

Lets try to not turn this into a DOHC VS OHV debate, bc that would just derail the thread for pages.

GT350, all the rumors I have read state that they (the media) believe this will be the car supposed to compete with the Z/28. I think that would be great, but there is no way IMO that it would only cost 50k. Maybe like Lowdown said as a "base" model with maybe a R variant.

What I would like to see Ford do with it, is revive the Cobra R nameplate. Make that the track superstar.

I will just chalk it all up to rumors until I see something official from Ford like a press release.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by 87GNX

+1.....Ls7 is a great motor it's just simple and low tech. Two diff engines completely.

The only thing the Coyote does that the LS7 doesn't is adjust the valve timing. I don't see that as vastly superior.

[87GNX]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The only thing the Coyote does that the LS7 doesn't is adjust the valve timing. I don't see that as vastly superior.

It is in away, as that is part of the dohc structure (timing on all 4 valves higher reving) and benefits from it. I dont like to compare the two directly, they are both great motors and achieve awesome numbers. I owned an 08 ls7 c6z....great car I had to sell it because I was buying a home. I am really interested in the GT500 cobra if they become a little cheaper as it is abit more practical for my lifestyle.