Camaro to be killed off again? - Page 5

Cgocifer · 04-06-2018, 04:02 PM

Was just someone's guess from a while ago

cellsafemode · 04-06-2018, 04:58 PM

Why would anyone blame people who haven't had any time to vote on laws or do anything adult-ish in life on the current state of the automotive world? Much less the Camaro.

The reason why things are the way they are is completely the fault of the generation of people who are in their late 40's and on and their parents.

Personally, I dont care much if the camaro is discontinued again. I have mine. It's never been a high volume selling vehicle. And when it was discontinued, it didn't stop me from having one and driving it the entire time.

Should get me to the point where we either get priced out of owning cars in general or they all get legally mandated to be computer controlled and human driving is just seen as an unnecessary liability. Both scenarios are easy to imagine happening within my lifetime.

STYLO LT1 · 04-06-2018, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiBlueCamaro

Old pictures?

Oh hell no!! if that’s going to be the new Camaro refresh then it probably does deserve to die a thousand hellish deaths.

Just my 2 cents. I don’t expect any overkill on the refresh, but that looks like some cheap JC Whitney Pep Boys upgrade sh!t right there.

protovack · 04-06-2018, 11:41 PM

There are always doomsayers predicting the death of the Camaro. The only thing the camaro has ever done was take a break for a while. It always comes back. People love this car and it continues to sell well. Not like it did before, but for a niche market vehicle it sells just fine. Volume doesn't necessarily mean profit. The Corvette is very profitable and continues to be produced despite a relatively small market. However, that market is very loyal and continues to buy year after year. Same for Camaro, especially after the 6th gen. The 6th gen brought this car back in a major way. The car will change with the times but it will always be a performance car that is fun to drive. Camaro is not going anywhere.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 04-07-2018, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by protovack

There are always doomsayers predicting the death of the Camaro. The only thing the camaro has ever done was take a break for a while. It always comes back. People love this car and it continues to sell well. Not like it did before, but for a niche market vehicle it sells just fine. Volume doesn't necessarily mean profit. The Corvette is very profitable and continues to be produced despite a relatively small market. However, that market is very loyal and continues to buy year after year. Same for Camaro, especially after the 6th gen. The 6th gen brought this car back in a major way. The car will change with the times but it will always be a performance car that is fun to drive. Camaro is not going anywhere.

Amen!

JBsC6 · 04-07-2018, 07:21 AM

Challengers are being given away by fca...unless your talking hellcats and demons.

Check out the lease rates on the more pedestrian models.

That hurts unit sales of camaro's.

It's not a big deal for GM since the profit per vehicle in the camaro is pretty strong.

Unit sales is not the only measure of success.

Ford has done an excellent job of balancing price and unit volume.

Still the comparable camaro is the stronger seller.

I personally believe the evolutionary styling of the 6 th gen has slowed many fifth gen buyers from taking the leap to the latest and greatest.

The very highly subsidized Dodge Challenger lease rates do tend to invite most new buyers to the segment.

To them the challenger is still a competitor in the pony car showroom wars.

Fca got dodge Chrysler keep for free...so the profitability of selling low lease models at unbelievable pricing is an fca advantage.

What cars does dodge and Chrysler really have left?

It's the 300, the charger and the challenger...

Platforms so old they were borrowed from out of date Mercedes E class vehicles.

A fine platform for sure but it is not in the same league as the camaro or mustang sixth gens.

Jmo although I do believe as the corvette goes rear mid engine the seventh gen camaro will be revolutionary in styling and no longer hold as many styling cues that were in the 5th and 6th product.

The alpha platform is an amazing platform.

All new styling is a must for chevys high performance 2 plus 2 ..not because the 6 ypth gen isn't beautiful...it's just not as fresh as it was back in 2010 to most new buyers..

Awesome performance, very good looking of course...just not as wow to the average new buyer and that needs to occur.

The mid cycle refresh for camaro should be interesting..

Any word on when it will be shown?

motorhead · 04-07-2018, 07:35 AM

So if the 300 and Charger go away, will the Challenger too? I honestly could see fiat dropping everything but Ram and Jeep.

Fraxum · 04-07-2018, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBsC6

All new styling is a must for Chevy's high performance 2 plus 2. not because the 6 th gen isn't beautiful... It's just not as fresh as it was back in 2010 to most new buyers.

You make many good points, but of all the 5th and 6th gen Camaros I have owned, my current red hot ZL1 gets more cell phone pics, looks from girls and guys, people rolling their windows down in traffic to ask about the car, and revved engines from Mustangs and Challengers than any of my other late model Camaros.

Some color/trim combinations are just magic I guess.

SecondZ28 · 04-07-2018, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBsC6

I personally believe the evolutionary styling of the 6 th gen has slowed many fifth gen buyers from taking the leap to the latest and greatest.

All new styling is a must for chevys high performance 2 plus 2 ..not because the 6 ypth gen isn't beautiful...it's just not as fresh as it was back in 2010 to most new buyers..

The mid cycle refresh for camaro should be interesting..

I agree they tried to ride out the 5th gen style popularity in designing the 6th, and it just didn't work. A mid cycle refresh isn't going to fix that, we'll have to wait for the 7th gen for that

Gen6_1Le · 04-07-2018, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecondZ28

I agree they tried to ride out the 5th gen style popularity in designing the 6th, and it just didn't work. A mid cycle refresh isn't going to fix that, we'll have to wait for the 7th gen for that

Price would fix sales more then styling , which is also going to be addressed with this refresh . I really don't think its as much styling as it is sticker shock that has hurt 6 gen sales. If it was styling the used ones would be sitting around but they are selling well .

Martinjlm · 04-07-2018, 10:15 AM

People seem to believe that because sales are down, Camaro will go away because last time sales were down, Camaro went away. The error in that argument is that sales is not the primary reason Camaro went away after 2002. A big factor, but not the simple reason.

When it was time to decide what to do with Camaro / Firebird there were a number of issues that needed to be resolved. The F-Body platform was long in the tooth and would have needed a lot of investment to meet changing safety and fuel economy regulations. A new architecture would have probably been less costly than fixing / modernizing the F-body platform. Those were just the F-Body specific issues. There were much larger company-level issues. GM was also in the middle of reducing the number of vehicle architectures and brands and models. Neither Camaro nor Firebird were making money at any sales level. Priority was on fixing Cadillac and deciding what to do about Buick / Oldsmobile / Saturn. One or more needed to go and there was more than a little hand-wringing over which one. Armed camps might actually be a better description.

In the greater scheme of things, what to do about Camaro / Firebird in the midst of this larger portfolio upheaval was a lot like trying to decide whether to mow the front lawn first or the rear while the fire department is hosing down your house.

So it came down to “If you do an all new Camaro / Firebird, what vehicle are you NOT going to do?” Crickets.... Bye-bye Camaro and Firebird.

Things are much different today. Camaro shares Alpha with Cadillac vehicles, despite early proclamations that Alpha would be Cadillac only forever. The arrangement benefits both parties. Even with expensive Alpha under-pinnings, Camaro continues to bring in profits, even at lower sales numbers. It ain’t broke, therefore, no need to fix anything. Everybody would like for sales to increase, and a lower content lower price V8 trim might be one approach that could help fix that, but nobody in Warren is perched on a ledge over Mustang outselling Camaro overall or Challenger outselling in spurts. Especially if the difference in sales is tilted by rental fleet sales which tend to be unprofitable or mildly profitable. GM could sell more Camaros by going after rentals, but chooses not to.

Sports cars in general are a declining segment, regardless of price point, and that is constantly monitored. At some point, should sports cars go the route that station wagons went decades ago (ironically, now on a slight comeback) then Camaro could fall out of the portfolio. But Mustang would probably by walking out the door with it. Ford could very well be hedging for this scenario with their curious approach to Mach 1.

redcoats1976 · 04-07-2018, 11:06 AM

i can tell you that i bought a year old CPO camaro(2015)to avoid the base T-4 engine.didnt want the extra stuff to have problems with and didnt want to pay an extra 1500 dollars to get the 6 cylinder that was the base engine the year before.could have gotten a 2016 LS for right around the same money that was brand new but it was a stripper compared to the RS i bought.but i do feel like a cheaper V8 option would draw interest,and the 6th gen body style is so close to 5th gen that you have to look twice to tell them apart.if i can get 200,000 miles out of this car with reasonable maintenance costs i will be a satisfied customer.

AZCamaroFan · 04-07-2018, 12:13 PM

as others have mentioned to me the future of the challenger is murkier. It's on an old platform that was developed by a different ownership. That platform is so old the Corvette and Mustang have been redesigned twice since then. Think about that. If the charger and 300 go away i can't see the challenger remaining. is there any plan at replacement? i don't hear one. Either way that company is in much worse shape than GM.

Martinjlm · 04-07-2018, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

as others have mentioned to me the future of the challenger is murkier. It's on an old platform that was developed by a different ownership. That platform is so old the Corvette and Mustang have been redesigned twice since then. Think about that. If the charger and 300 go away i can't see the challenger remaining. is there any plan at replacement? i don't hear one. Either way that company is in much worse shape than GM.

FCA has been doing the hokey-pokey wrt using the Giorgio platform for the next gen(?) Charger + Challenger. Giorgio is the platform used for Giulia and Stelvio. Right now, they have their right foot in. Expect the 300 to go FWD.

04-07-2018, 07:21 AM	#62
JBsC6 Drives: 2008 Blk C6 Z51 NPP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 255 View My Garage	Challengers are being given away by fca...unless your talking hellcats and demons. Check out the lease rates on the more pedestrian models. That hurts unit sales of camaro's. It's not a big deal for GM since the profit per vehicle in the camaro is pretty strong. Unit sales is not the only measure of success. Ford has done an excellent job of balancing price and unit volume. Still the comparable camaro is the stronger seller. I personally believe the evolutionary styling of the 6 th gen has slowed many fifth gen buyers from taking the leap to the latest and greatest. The very highly subsidized Dodge Challenger lease rates do tend to invite most new buyers to the segment. To them the challenger is still a competitor in the pony car showroom wars. Fca got dodge Chrysler keep for free...so the profitability of selling low lease models at unbelievable pricing is an fca advantage. What cars does dodge and Chrysler really have left? It's the 300, the charger and the challenger... Platforms so old they were borrowed from out of date Mercedes E class vehicles. A fine platform for sure but it is not in the same league as the camaro or mustang sixth gens. Jmo although I do believe as the corvette goes rear mid engine the seventh gen camaro will be revolutionary in styling and no longer hold as many styling cues that were in the 5th and 6th product. The alpha platform is an amazing platform. All new styling is a must for chevys high performance 2 plus 2 ..not because the 6 ypth gen isn't beautiful...it's just not as fresh as it was back in 2010 to most new buyers.. Awesome performance, very good looking of course...just not as wow to the average new buyer and that needs to occur. The mid cycle refresh for camaro should be interesting.. Any word on when it will be shown? __________________ 2008 Blk C6 Z51 NPP M6/2008 Silver CTS AWD FE2 304hp

04-07-2018, 10:15 AM	#67
Martinjlm Retired from GM Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Detroit Posts: 5,421	People seem to believe that because sales are down, Camaro will go away because last time sales were down, Camaro went away. The error in that argument is that sales is not the primary reason Camaro went away after 2002. A big factor, but not the simple reason. When it was time to decide what to do with Camaro / Firebird there were a number of issues that needed to be resolved. The F-Body platform was long in the tooth and would have needed a lot of investment to meet changing safety and fuel economy regulations. A new architecture would have probably been less costly than fixing / modernizing the F-body platform. Those were just the F-Body specific issues. There were much larger company-level issues. GM was also in the middle of reducing the number of vehicle architectures and brands and models. Neither Camaro nor Firebird were making money at any sales level. Priority was on fixing Cadillac and deciding what to do about Buick / Oldsmobile / Saturn. One or more needed to go and there was more than a little hand-wringing over which one. Armed camps might actually be a better description. In the greater scheme of things, what to do about Camaro / Firebird in the midst of this larger portfolio upheaval was a lot like trying to decide whether to mow the front lawn first or the rear while the fire department is hosing down your house. So it came down to “If you do an all new Camaro / Firebird, what vehicle are you NOT going to do?” Crickets.... Bye-bye Camaro and Firebird. Things are much different today. Camaro shares Alpha with Cadillac vehicles, despite early proclamations that Alpha would be Cadillac only forever. The arrangement benefits both parties. Even with expensive Alpha under-pinnings, Camaro continues to bring in profits, even at lower sales numbers. It ain’t broke, therefore, no need to fix anything. Everybody would like for sales to increase, and a lower content lower price V8 trim might be one approach that could help fix that, but nobody in Warren is perched on a ledge over Mustang outselling Camaro overall or Challenger outselling in spurts. Especially if the difference in sales is tilted by rental fleet sales which tend to be unprofitable or mildly profitable. GM could sell more Camaros by going after rentals, but chooses not to. Sports cars in general are a declining segment, regardless of price point, and that is constantly monitored. At some point, should sports cars go the route that station wagons went decades ago (ironically, now on a slight comeback) then Camaro could fall out of the portfolio. But Mustang would probably by walking out the door with it. Ford could very well be hedging for this scenario with their curious approach to Mach 1. __________________ 2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE A8 \| MRC \| NPP \| Nav \| HUD \| GM Performance CAI \| Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB \| Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers \| FlexFuel Tune \| Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam \| Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight \| Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties \| 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray \| Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays \| Novistretch bra and mirror covers \| Tow hitch for bicycle rack \| Last edited by Martinjlm; 04-07-2018 at 11:16 AM.

04-06-2018, 04:02 PM	#57
Cgocifer Drives: 2018 1SS 1LE, 2015 RAM Ecodiesel Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,451	Was just someone's guess from a while ago

04-06-2018, 04:58 PM	#58
cellsafemode Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: California Posts: 3,494	Why would anyone blame people who haven't had any time to vote on laws or do anything adult-ish in life on the current state of the automotive world? Much less the Camaro. The reason why things are the way they are is completely the fault of the generation of people who are in their late 40's and on and their parents. Personally, I dont care much if the camaro is discontinued again. I have mine. It's never been a high volume selling vehicle. And when it was discontinued, it didn't stop me from having one and driving it the entire time. Should get me to the point where we either get priced out of owning cars in general or they all get legally mandated to be computer controlled and human driving is just seen as an unnecessary liability. Both scenarios are easy to imagine happening within my lifetime.

04-06-2018, 11:41 PM	#60
protovack Drives: 2019 2LT 2.0T M6 Riverside Blue Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: WA Posts: 847	There are always doomsayers predicting the death of the Camaro. The only thing the camaro has ever done was take a break for a while. It always comes back. People love this car and it continues to sell well. Not like it did before, but for a niche market vehicle it sells just fine. Volume doesn't necessarily mean profit. The Corvette is very profitable and continues to be produced despite a relatively small market. However, that market is very loyal and continues to buy year after year. Same for Camaro, especially after the 6th gen. The 6th gen brought this car back in a major way. The car will change with the times but it will always be a performance car that is fun to drive. Camaro is not going anywhere.

04-07-2018, 07:35 AM	#63
motorhead Drives: Love the one you're with Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Downtown Charlie Brown Posts: 11,850	So if the 300 and Charger go away, will the Challenger too? I honestly could see fiat dropping everything but Ram and Jeep.

04-07-2018, 11:06 AM	#68
redcoats1976 Drives: LT W/2LT,blue metallic Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: central florida Posts: 4,925	i can tell you that i bought a year old CPO camaro(2015)to avoid the base T-4 engine.didnt want the extra stuff to have problems with and didnt want to pay an extra 1500 dollars to get the 6 cylinder that was the base engine the year before.could have gotten a 2016 LS for right around the same money that was brand new but it was a stripper compared to the RS i bought.but i do feel like a cheaper V8 option would draw interest,and the 6th gen body style is so close to 5th gen that you have to look twice to tell them apart.if i can get 200,000 miles out of this car with reasonable maintenance costs i will be a satisfied customer.

04-07-2018, 12:13 PM	#69
AZCamaroFan Camaro6 2016-2018 Drives: sometimes Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phoenix Posts: 18,461	as others have mentioned to me the future of the challenger is murkier. It's on an old platform that was developed by a different ownership. That platform is so old the Corvette and Mustang have been redesigned twice since then. Think about that. If the charger and 300 go away i can't see the challenger remaining. is there any plan at replacement? i don't hear one. Either way that company is in much worse shape than GM.

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