[Raven87]

Originally Posted by DisturbedSS

A corvette is your best chance at retaining value. A ZL1 is a SS with a supercharger and SS models depreciate quickly.

Um... two things. First, if you check the markets, used Corvettes drop just about the same percentage-wise as the rest of the high performance American made vehicles and definitely lose value FASTER than the Hellcats. Z06s may hold value a little better but C7 coupes are a dime a dozen now and can be bought very well vs what their original MSRP was.

Secondly - a ZL1 is far and away NOT an SS with a supercharger in many ways. Nothing against a blown SS but the ZL1 brings a lot more to the table than just a blower. Will a blown SS RUN with a ZL1 at the quarter - certainly.

But unless the SS has the suspension and aero that the ZL1 does, it will be left behind quickly at the track.

Again, not taking anything away from a blown SS because they are sick cars. But they are not a ZL1 just because they have a blower.

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by pdiddy972

How can you even say that? It's not even the same engine. Then add on all the other differences. It's not an SS with a supercharger, I don't think.

Obviously it was an over-exaggeration, but you can get to that level of power far cheaper enhancing an SS. Im pretty close as of today, for 10 grand less.

Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt turn down a ZL1 if offered! A warranty with that power, handling and better cosmetics overall would be hard to pass up.

Originally Posted by Raven87

Um... two things. First, if you check the markets, used Corvettes drop just about the same percentage-wise as the rest of the high performance American made vehicles and definitely lose value FASTER than the Hellcats. Z06s may hold value a little better but C7 coupes are a dime a dozen now and can be bought very well vs what their original MSRP was.

Secondly - a ZL1 is far and away NOT an SS with a supercharger in many ways. Nothing against a blown SS but the ZL1 brings a lot more to the table than just a blower. Will a blown SS RUN with a ZL1 at the quarter - certainly.

But unless the SS has the suspension and aero that the ZL1 does, it will be left behind quickly at the track.

Again, not taking anything away from a blown SS because they are sick cars. But they are not a ZL1 just because they have a blower.

Since everyone here seems to measure performance based only on straight line 1/4 mile driving, the suspension improvements means little - on a real race track, that suspension REALLY comes into play, totally 100% agree. Im not a tracker these days however, but raced often when I was younger.

There are few Helllcats produced and on the road today, enhancing value - but its not an exotic car by any stretch, so will never retain value like one. It looks like a plain old challenger with a body kit from a distance. Corvettes are iconic, challengers are not - its all about brand, like paying extra for a fancy label shirt even though its made from the same cotton material with buttons as a cheaper one. The Hellcat should have been its own unique shape, not modeled after an existing line. Since the Viper is going away, it could have been the new replacement.

I disagree 100% on Corvettes retained value, I sold my 2013 GS for exactly what I paid for it. Now if you go pick a 2016 stingray off the lot and take it to a dealer 3 months later, then yes, you will get pounded on value. I have a sneaky feeling the newer model Vettes will depreciate faster than the older gens...but thats just a guess. Whenever you radically change a cars cosmetics, its a whole new metric.

Sick car = YES! then again you own a Z/28 man, cmon....hardly fair. I like it!

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by DisturbedSS

Since everyone here seems to measure performance based only on straight line 1/4 mile driving, the suspension improvements means little - on a real race track, that suspension REALLY comes into play, totally 100% agree. Im not a tracker these days however, but raced often when I was younger.

There are few Helllcats produced and on the road today, enhancing value - but its not an exotic car by any stretch, so will never retain value like one. It looks like a plain old challenger with a body kit from a distance. Corvettes are iconic, challengers are not - its all about brand, like paying extra for a fancy label shirt even though its made from the same cotton material with buttons as a cheaper one. The Hellcat should have been its own unique shape, not modeled after an existing line. Since the Viper is going away, it could have been the new replacement.

I disagree 100% on Corvettes retained value, I sold my 2013 GS for exactly what I paid for it. Now if you go pick a 2016 stingray off the lot and take it to a dealer 3 months later, then yes, you will get pounded on value. I have a sneaky feeling the newer model Vettes will depreciate faster than the older gens...but thats just a guess. Whenever you radically change a cars cosmetics, its a whole new metric.

Sick car = YES! then again you own a Z/28 man, cmon....hardly fair. I like it!

Well not everyone measures performance in a straight line but I will agree that it is often the benchmark for performance/muscle more so than a road course which will reveal the better handling car and will more often than not prove that muscle/horsepower is not the final arbiter for 'performance' for everyone.

Did you buy your GS new? I always liked the C6 GS but I know they have taken a huge drop in value. Selling it straight out is definitely better than trading it in.

I imagine there were some decent discounts on your 2013 given it was the end of the model (C6) run which is great. That is what I saw on my Z/28 - I bought it for over $26,000 of MSRP.

'Few Hellcats produced'? Not by a long shot - I believe there were 7100-ish in 2015 but nearly 12000 in 2016! So they are far from rare especially when you compare those numbers against ZL1s and Z/28s.

But buying a new ZL1 today will be much different than buying a new one in even two years. We saw that with the 5th Gen ZL1 - when they were new, often they sold at MSRP (or higher) and by the end of the model run, you could buy a new 2015 ZL1 for 20% and more off MSRP. I know that because I did that when I bought mine in December of 2014.

And the 6G ZL1s, like all those before them, will not retain their value any better or worse. Those who buy the first model and pay MSRP or more soon learn that when the market gets more saturated, the car they paid a premium for is just another used car, albeit a fantastic one for performance!

Just compare what was being paid new versus what they bring today - 2007 Shelby GT500s, 1990 Corvette ZR1s, 2012 ZL1s, 2014 Z/28s, etc, etc - it happens every time. And you may even see that with the Hellcats - I am betting you will.

Maybe in 20-25 years the value will return some for those first run models but wow - their values have dropped enormously. Which is very common.

Like I said before, if you are buying a car and concerned about resale value, don't buy a new one - buy one a year or two off new. Let the first owner take the biggest depreciation hit.

To each his own!

[Ian SS]

Originally Posted by DisturbedSS

Obviously it was an over-exaggeration, but you can get to that level of power far cheaper enhancing an SS. Im pretty close as of today, for 10 grand less.

Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt turn down a ZL1 if offered! A warranty with that power, handling and better cosmetics overall would be hard to pass up.

Yeah and your car doesn't have an e-LSD, Recaro's, PDR, Carbon fiber heat extractor, or a motor with forged internals.

You say you saved 10k but the reality is that you won't see a penny of that back when you sell the car, versus the ZL1 where the value is retained.

[KLR ZL1]

Originally Posted by Ian @ Weseloh Chevrolet

Yeah and your car doesn't have an e-LSD, Recaro's, PDR, Carbon fiber heat extractor, or a motor with forged internals.

You say you saved 10k but the reality is that you won't see a penny of that back when you sell the car, versus the ZL1 where the value is retained.

You are absolutely right. The only way to recover any mod cost minus removing them and selling as parts is hope that one person has cash to cover the difference between what you think it's worth and what a bank will loan for.

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Well not everyone measures performance in a straight line but I will agree that it is often the benchmark for performance/muscle more so than a road course which will reveal the better handling car and will more often than not prove that muscle/horsepower is not the final arbiter for 'performance' for everyone.

Did you buy your GS new? I always liked the C6 GS but I know they have taken a huge drop in value. Selling it straight out is definitely better than trading it in.

I imagine there were some decent discounts on your 2013 given it was the end of the model (C6) run which is great. That is what I saw on my Z/28 - I bought it for over $26,000 of MSRP.

'Few Hellcats produced'? Not by a long shot - I believe there were 7100-ish in 2015 but nearly 12000 in 2016! So they are far from rare especially when you compare those numbers against ZL1s and Z/28s.

But buying a new ZL1 today will be much different than buying a new one in even two years. We saw that with the 5th Gen ZL1 - when they were new, often they sold at MSRP (or higher) and by the end of the model run, you could buy a new 2015 ZL1 for 20% and more off MSRP. I know that because I did that when I bought mine in December of 2014.

And the 6G ZL1s, like all those before them, will not retain their value any better or worse. Those who buy the first model and pay MSRP or more soon learn that when the market gets more saturated, the car they paid a premium for is just another used car, albeit a fantastic one for performance!

Just compare what was being paid new versus what they bring today - 2007 Shelby GT500s, 1990 Corvette ZR1s, 2012 ZL1s, 2014 Z/28s, etc, etc - it happens every time. And you may even see that with the Hellcats - I am betting you will.

Maybe in 20-25 years the value will return some for those first run models but wow - their values have dropped enormously. Which is very common.

Like I said before, if you are buying a car and concerned about resale value, don't buy a new one - buy one a year or two off new. Let the first owner take the biggest depreciation hit.

To each his own!

I bought the GS new...it was shocking that I got what I paid, although it had under 10K mileage and my special cosmetic touches. The cosmetic stuff is money lost no doubt.

I have yet to see a single private owned Hellcat here, minus trade shows. I live in the major muscle/super car area of town (aka rich guys - which I am not). Hellcats are more of a demand buy, like the ZL1 - youre not going to see them sitting at every Chevy dealership. It is amazing however how many Teslas I see buzzing around over here, especially over at the snob (aka eye candy) gym I go to.

"Like I said before, if you are buying a car and concerned about resale value, don't buy a new one - buy one a year or two off new. Let the first owner take the biggest depreciation hit. "

Exactly how I feel and always do the same - minus mass produced muscle cars. Too many wildcards there, unless its took a model year long nap on a factory lot. I wouldnt touch a previous owner camaro unless the owner lived in a retirement community. LOL

So do you actually DD that Z/28??

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by Ian @ Weseloh Chevrolet

Yeah and your car doesn't have an e-LSD, Recaro's, PDR, Carbon fiber heat extractor, or a motor with forged internals.

You say you saved 10k but the reality is that you won't see a penny of that back when you sell the car, versus the ZL1 where the value is retained.

<sigh>

I have a 2SS with every upgrade - minus unwanted NPP - and am being dynoed today with most likey - per the dyno shop - 550HP RW and BHP at around 620HP. Actual totals pending.

I would never waste 10 grand on e-LSD, Recaro's, PDR, Carbon fiber heat extractor, or a motor with forged internals anyways. Modding a muscle car DEVALUES it, no matter what model it is - period. I worked at an auction house and saw these hack jobs go for less than factory stock equivalent often. I would venture to say they were DIYs as opposed to ASE tech installs. A trained buyer sees it was modified and without certified docs (almost never with the car) its a value killer. Scratch built is a different animal vs modded mass produced.

My dialed up 700HP mustang GT was traded in for 29K and then sold at auction for a very sad 24K (g-sus I would have bought it back!) . Dealer took a hit since no other private dealer around town wanted it. Mod penalty - exterior and interior were near new condition.

Being that I didnt spend the extra 10-12 grand, thats saved money for a car that is just as fast and still handles. My car currently is overkill, a ZL1 adds on to the overkill. I dont DD on a track, although I have dreamed about it.

I have no plans on selling the car, being that I just spent a fortune making it awesome, so depreciation does not apply here. For the first time ever, found a car thats finally a keeper.

[Heavymetal454]

If you're concerned about depreciation buying a car should not be your top priority. Buy gold and silver coins. Jesus.

[Boilermaker128]

Well to the zl1's defense it will get the A10. Until it trickles down to the SS and 1LE it is a pretty big advantage.

[Artos]

So depreciation only counts for the ZL1 but since you don't plan to sell, the $10k you dropped into the SS doesn't apply here?? I don't catch the logic & suspect the ZL1 would be the better option on money spent if a financial issue came up & had to sell. There have been threads on this exact same topic & would never consider modding an ss to save $$$$ vs the 17 ZL1 simply because of the devaluation at hand here.

Anyway, Fact is none of us know what the 17 ZL1 will do on depreciation until this time next year when some will one up with an 18...but again, we are talking vettes & I digress. I got a call from a dealer today where I got my wife's 15 Tahoe to tell me about a 15 loaded stingray I think. I dismissed it as I just don't feel comfortable in the vettes I drove vs the camaro. Just feel like I'm in a coffin for some reason.

I'll call him back tomorrow & get the details as it was around $60k & would be a good baseline for discussion on this ZL1 vs vette topic. I would need you guys help to know what original msrp was to compare. Stand by.

[BreedsAS]

Originally Posted by Artos

....... I dismissed it as I just don't feel comfortable in the vettes I drove vs the camaro. Just feel like I'm in a coffin for some reason.

I thought the same thing! That is why I did not get one. Very cramped and my head is uncomfortably close to the roof.

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by Artos

So depreciation only counts for the ZL1 but since you don't plan to sell, the $10k you dropped into the SS doesn't apply here?? I don't catch the logic & suspect the ZL1 would be the better option on money spent if a financial issue came up & had to sell. There have been threads on this exact same topic & would never consider modding an ss to save $$$$ vs the 17 ZL1 simply because of the devaluation at hand here.

Anyway, Fact is none of us know what the 17 ZL1 will do on depreciation until this time next year when some will one up with an 18...but again, we are talking vettes & I digress. I got a call from a dealer today where I got my wife's 15 Tahoe to tell me about a 15 loaded stingray I think. I dismissed it as I just don't feel comfortable in the vettes I drove vs the camaro. Just feel like I'm in a coffin for some reason.

I'll call him back tomorrow & get the details as it was around $60k & would be a good baseline for discussion on this ZL1 vs vette topic. I would need you guys help to know what original msrp was to compare. Stand by.

I didnt invest all this money in the SS for someone elses enjoyment later, thats for sure. I can hardly justify dropping - now 52k into the SS - into a car much less the massive markup (as in dealer profit margin) on a ZL1. At what point does any of this make sense?

Muscle cars, boats, off road toys are all stupid investments - justifying otherwise is just lying to yourself. I will bet you any amount of money you will lose $$$ year after year.

I flip homes for a living, so know a little about depreciation, tax laws and cash positive investments. Its how I fund all my stupidity!

[KLR ZL1]

Originally Posted by DisturbedSS

I didnt invest all this money in the SS for someone elses enjoyment later, thats for sure. I can hardly justify dropping - now 52k into the SS - into a car much less the massive markup on a ZL1. At what point does any of this make sense?

Muscle cars, boats, off road toys are all stupid investments - justifying otherwise is just lying to yourself. I will bet you any amount of money you will lose $$$ year after year.

I flip homes for a living, so know a little about depreciation, tax laws and cash positive investments. Its how I fund all my stupidity!

What massive mark up are you referring to? If someone pays a DEALER MARK UP those are the stupid ones. If you pay msrp or lower your smart and I have already seen the lower than msrp within 200 miles from where I live. I just did a search last night.

[KaBoom1701]

I'm enjoying my retirement now gift to myself now at 40 while I'm still working and raising a family...forget saving all your pennies until your to old to drive these cars like the should be driven.

Just my .02