[motorhead]

I don't believe marketing as anything to do with this car selling. Most people that drive cars like this already know about them and don't need a TV ad to buy. It believe the gen6's biggest problem is the gen5 car. Most of the people that had pent up feelings for a Camaro when it met its demise already own one. Also, the gen5 car is still taking sales from gen6 in the used market and leftover market. And the big problem is alll the issues they've had since launch. People that buy these types of read fourms and other publications just like this one and many are uneasy about what they have been reading. I know from hanging out on the cars show circuit. I belive this cars days are numbered. It already met it's demise once to lack of interest.
And now, they don't have firebird to help it along. I don't think it can sustain on it's own.

And to say people shouldn't be allowed to talk about a car because they don't own one is just childish. I bet if their conversation was positive or in line with your opinion you wouldn't have made that rediculous comment. The truth hurts sometimes. Get over it or take your ball and go home. Geeze!

[MovieGuy]

I think with 95 million Americans out of work, and the mean wage of those who do have jobs dropping, we are going to see sales drop.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I don't believe marketing as anything to do with this car selling. Most people that drive cars like this already know about them and don't need a TV ad to buy. It believe the gen6's biggest problem is the gen5 car. Most of the people that had pent up feelings for a Camaro when it met its demise already own one. Also, the gen5 car is still taking sales from gen6 in the used market and leftover market. And the big problem is alll the issues they've had since launch. People that buy these types of read fourms and other publications just like this one and many are uneasy about what they have been reading. I know from hanging out on the cars show circuit. I believe this cars days are numbered. It already met it's demise once to lack of interest.
And now, they don't have firebird to help it along. I don't think it can sustain on it's own.

And to say people shouldn't be allowed to talk about a car because they don't own one is just childish. I bet if their conversation was positive or in line with your opinion you wouldn't have made that rediculous comment. The truth hurts sometimes. Get over it or take your ball and go home. Geeze!

We've seen this is a ~20,000+ unit per month segment. If GM doesn't get the percentage they want, I don't see them walking away and leaving it entirely to their competitors. The Firebird didn't help the Camaro, it canabalized its own sales with more or less the same car. Larger question is more in line with Number 3's position. Would they find better sales competing for the same buyers with a Chevelle? I.e. Better coupe albeit bigger, heavier.

Comparisons to the Camaros 2002 demise are false IMO. Different GM (broke) and the gen4 was in its tenth year so they obviously milked it and let it die in favor of pickup trucks and SUV. This GM swung for the fences and built an all out Camaro. Apparently gen5 owners don't give a shit, are too upside down it their 5th or don't actually drive the car enough to appreciate the advancements.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by motorhead

And the big problem is alll the issues they've had since launch. People that buy these types of read fourms and other publications just like this one and many are uneasy about what they have been reading.

That's false. I mean are you on other car forums? Every forum has a problems section for just that, problems. Every car forum I've ever been on has people with issues. When the S550 Mustang first came out I was going to buy one and spent lots of time on M6G, there were tons of issues (and bigger ones then here) with those cars. Gobs of transmission issues, diff vibrations that couldn't be traced, thin leather falling apart, SYNC issues, engine ticks, etc, etc...first year cars can have issues, (heck, last year cars can too of course), and in 99% of the cases they can be fixed, and then the fixes are implemented for future production. You make like the 6th gen is not the norm, and in reality it is. People bitch about issues on forums, they don't post how they have no problems.

Originally Posted by motorhead

I belive this cars days are numbered. It already met it's demise once to lack of interest. And now, they don't have firebird to help it along. I don't think it can sustain on it's own.

That is incorrect. While the 4th gen sales weren't fantastic, there was a decent amount of profit being made as that cars platform could be traced back to the 3rd gen and the early 80's. The issue as to why production stopped was that the cars platform couldn't support the mandatory upcoming government standards for a variety of things and the factory in Canada had a capacity/unit minimum that wasn't going to work with that car in the future. GM chose to invest in SUV's as they were booming at that time.

The 6th gen has a shared platform with the ATS and CTS and a few possible forthcoming cars to share costs. Too many people think they are economists for GM and act like they know what their net profit rate is on these cars, and they don't. Sales numbers do not always equate into profits as a flat ratio. There are many variables. Ford doesn't use that platform for more then one car, so that eats up profits, plus we have no idea how GM works their profit range on the 6th gen. Ford may make (hypothetically) $5000 on each Mustang they sell, but GM may make $8000 on each Camaro they sell. So even if GM sells less, then can make more in their pockets.

There is so much speculation on "sales" numbers on this forum from people who really don't have the slightest way of knowing GM's profit structure...

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

That's false. I mean are you on other car forums? Every forum has a problems section for just that, problems. Every car forum I've ever been on has people with issues. When the S550 Mustang first came out I was going to buy one and spent lots of time on M6G, there were tons of issues (and bigger ones then here) with those cars. Gobs of transmission issues, diff vibrations that couldn't be traced, thin leather falling apart, SYNC issues, engine ticks, etc, etc...first year cars can have issues, (heck, last year cars can too of course), and in 99% of the cases they can be fixed, and then the fixes are implemented for future production. You make like the 6th gen is not the norm, and in reality it is. People bitch about issues on forums, they don't post how they have no problems.




That is incorrect. While the 4th gen sales weren't fantastic, there was a decent amount of profit being made as that cars platform could be traced back to the 3rd gen and the early 80's. The issue as to why production stopped was that the cars platform couldn't support the mandatory upcoming government standards for a variety of things and the factory in Canada had a capacity/unit minimum that wasn't going to work with that car in the future. GM chose to invest in SUV's as they were booming at that time.

The 6th gen has a shared platform with the ATS and CTS and a few possible forthcoming cars to share costs. Too many people think they are economists for GM and act like they know what their net profit rate is on these cars, and they don't. Sales numbers do not always equate into profits as a flat ratio. There are many variables. Ford doesn't use that platform for more then one car, so that eats up profits, plus we have no idea how GM works their profit range on the 6th gen. Ford may make (hypothetically) $5000 on each Mustang they sell, but GM may make $8000 on each Camaro they sell. So even if GM sells less, then can make more in their pockets.

There is so much speculation on "sales" numbers on this forum from people who really don't have the slightest way of knowing GM's profit structure...

Well said. I've been an active member on 2 prior boards (VW and BMW) with a new car, and followed several others (LX forums, M6G, etc...) Reading the BMW forums you would think every car has a defect and spends most of it's life in the service bay. The only issue I've had with mine has been a flakey cellular antennae for the SOS system. This isn't to say others don't have problems because they certainly do. But it's been said countless times, people almost always complain about something wrong, but untold numbers never say a thing when all is well. Hell if it wasn't for complaint posts, forums wouldn't even exist for some cars.

As for GM and their sales strategy. I'm not entirely confident they know what they are doing. But there are only two ways to look at it from my perspective:

1. They aren't trying to sell these cars because the profits are still in green.
2. The sales division is completely incompetent and not reacting to the market conditions.

[aestil]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

Low sales mean nothing if there is profit being made. Again...you don't know GM"s stratergy, so your input is meaningless. Even if the total units sold is low, I still love mine and it will be more unique. I don't have hurt feelings, me and other gen6 owners are very happy with our cars. Unlike you, I actually get to own/drive the car that you spend all you're time reading/dreaming about.

Now you're just trolling us.

[Baywire]

Originally Posted by MovieGuy

I think with 95 million Americans out of work, and the mean wage of those who do have jobs dropping, we are going to see sales drop.

I'm going to assume you meant 9.5 Million. Since 95 million would be about 27% of America being out of a job which is just not true. It's around 5% (which is about 17.5 million).
^
I think however, we as a thread have definitely come to a conclusion that ONE of the problems with the Camaro is it's price. I think we agree that the car is worth the price however the market who wants to buy it is not necessarily able to afford it. Which then becomes GM's fault not our own, for producing a car that people cannot afford.

Why has the Camaro become such an expensive car? GM clearly has become this high investment high return kind of company. They want to see a return on their product immediately. (THE LTG ENGINE IS 9000 DOLLARS! and LS3 is ~7k and LT1 is 11... for 2 grand more than a 430hp V8 engine you can buy a newer smaller and less powerful engine!)

GM, plz.

Now I love the exclusivity of the Camaro, I don't think exclusivity should be based solely on price. It's a new generation "new platform" which is actually old but the entire body and interior is new and yea that costs money and that usually means an increase is price. Should the price go up the following MY? Probably not, but it did, further cementing (for me) that GM is looking for high returns on 'low' production cars.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

I really don't care if you dislike me and others that are like me. I'm not here to make you happy. I never said that everyone should have raving praise of the gen6, you are entitled to your opinion. I just value the opinion of someone that actually owns the product over someone that won't buy one until Chevrolet makes commercials they like. Why would someone that has no intention of buying a gen6 spend all their time on the forum? Those of you that feel the Mustang is such a better value and is better a better quality product should go buy one. Problem solved. Many people with the gen6 experience ugly remarks from those that own a gen5. Lets look closely at this....how many people that are posting the negative comments drive a gen5 Camaro? Plenty. How many people posting negative comments do not own a Camaro? Plenty. How many people that are posting the negative comments actually own a gen6? Not many at all.

To sum it up for you...Those of us that own the gen6 come on this forum to discuss our cars with others that have experience with our model (gen6 on gen6 forum). It's hard for us to find each other with all the wannabe's (non gen6 owners) posts flooding the topics. It would just be so much easier for us if your posts went to a special place, maybe something with an important title like "People Chevrolet needs to Employ". You can post all your ideas and complaints and Chevrolet can find all of you in one thread.

I know it's hard to accept, but its a gen6 thing that you need to own a gen6 to understand.

I need to own a Gen 6 to understand that it's sales last month were bad? Come on man lol, this has been an interesting thread to read and comment in. The car is a home run, and even if GM is going to lower volume, I still say they were a bit disappointed with last month's results.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I need to own a Gen 6 to understand that it's sales last month were bad? Come on man lol, this has been an interesting thread to read and comment in. The car is a home run, and even if GM is going to lower volume, I still say they were a bit disappointed with last month's results.

My point is that if GM was upset about the sales numbers, they can do things to increase that number (such as incentives). The fact that nothing has been done at this point only shows GM is not concerned like most of the people posting these figures. If the person selling/manufacturing the product is ok with the sales number, why should it bother us?

[MovieGuy]

Originally Posted by Baywire

I'm going to assume you meant 9.5 Million. Since 95 million would be about 27% of America being out of a job which is just not true. It's around 5% (which is about 17.5 million).
^
I think however, we as a thread have definitely come to a conclusion that ONE of the problems with the Camaro is it's price. I think we agree that the car is worth the price however the market who wants to buy it is not necessarily able to afford it. Which then becomes GM's fault not our own, for producing a car that people cannot afford.

Why has the Camaro become such an expensive car? GM clearly has become this high investment high return kind of company. They want to see a return on their product immediately. (THE LTG ENGINE IS 9000 DOLLARS! and LS3 is ~7k and LT1 is 11... for 2 grand more than a 430hp V8 engine you can buy a newer smaller and less powerful engine!)

GM, plz.

Now I love the exclusivity of the Camaro, I don't think exclusivity should be based solely on price. It's a new generation "new platform" which is actually old but the entire body and interior is new and yea that costs money and that usually means an increase is price. Should the price go up the following MY? Probably not, but it did, further cementing (for me) that GM is looking for high returns on 'low' production cars.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/...f-labor-force/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...workforce.html

And the 9.5 million comes from this.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/95-m...ce-under-obama

In this economy car sales are going to suffer. And they are across the board.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I need to own a Gen 6 to understand that it's sales last month were bad? Come on man lol, this has been an interesting thread to read and comment in. The car is a home run, and even if GM is going to lower volume, I still say they were a bit disappointed with last month's results.

They may have been a bit disappointed, for that matter I think the last month was probably a disappointment for the auto industry in general but the real question is how disappointed, if at all?

If the 5th Gen's had say $1000 of profit per sale and the 6th Gen has $1500 profit per sale, doesn't than mean that 6000 6th Gens sold, profit wise, really equals 9000 5th Gens sold?

Theoretically, if this scenario is truly what they are doing, then they would be doing pretty well profit wise with spending very little (almost nothing) on advertisement .

I have no idea what the real profit numbers per car is for either the 5th Gen or the 6th Gen, we only know that GM has said they built more profits per sale on the 6th Gen but it is an interesting topic.

Everyone is giving their reasons for the "failure" but what if it isn't failing?

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Baywire

I'm going to assume you meant 9.5 Million. Since 95 million would be about 27% of America being out of a job which is just not true. It's around 5% (which is about 17.5 million).
.

Actually..he quoted the correct figure.

5% are the people who want a job but cannot find one, that's the only figure in the "unemployment rate"

The actual number of Americans out of work, either by retirement, by choice or because they simply cannot find work and have dropped out of the workforce is around 95 million.

I know, off-topic, but I just wanted to explain that 95 million figure.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

My point is that if GM was upset about the sales numbers, they can do things to increase that number (such as incentives). The fact that nothing has been done at this point only shows GM is not concerned like most of the people posting these figures. If the person selling/manufacturing the product is ok with the sales number, why should it bother us?

Not saying you aren't right, but let's face it. GM went bankrupt because they didn't react fast enough. And we all don't want to go through that crap again.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Actually..he quoted the correct figure.

5% are the people who want a job but cannot find one, that's the only figure in the "unemployment rate"

The actual number of Americans out of work, either by retirement, by choice or because they simply cannot find work and have dropped out of the workforce is around 95 million.

I know, off-topic, but I just wanted to explain that 95 million figure.

Glad you mentioned that. Now if you can get the media to state that every time they talk about the unemployment rate going down lol.

[SS376]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

Low sales mean nothing if there is profit being made. Again...you don't know GM"s stratergy, so your input is meaningless. Even if the total units sold is low, I still love mine and it will be more unique. I don't have hurt feelings, me and other gen6 owners are very happy with our cars. Unlike you, I actually get to own/drive the car that you spend all your time reading/dreaming about.

All that salt isn't going to be good for your blood pressure!