[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Yes MSRP. It's impossible to speculate what dealerships will ask for when finally announced, whenever that may be. And not every Shelby product sells for way over MSRP. The '14 GT500 was selling under MSRP when it was being sold. The GT350 was/is valued so much by consumers because it did so many things right.

OR, that they keep supply way down...

[*007]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

If I'm seeing that right, that Hellcat trapped 131MPH, that ain't stock bud. Probably a 100 shot on it if I had to guess. The launch was VERY soft thus the crappy 11.4.

Hellcats run high 10s bone stock. I've seen it with my own eyes at MY event this April. My buddy in a 6 speed Hellcat runs 11.10s at the track bone stock with DR tires. That's getting it done in a stock 6 speed. Here's one of his runs in the 6 speed against a twin turbo Challenger (orange car) that's also a 6 speed. Pops are coming from the orange car for clarity. This was for our 6 speed shootout this year and obviously the orange car is about 1000HP. If you wanna see real times you have to find ones form people that can handle a high horse power car properly.



NHRA rules have been changes to allow 9.99 before a cage is required on UNMODIFIED OEM vehicles.

Given what I've seen from 6psi supercharged Gen 6 Camaros, the ZL1 should have no problem running high 10s. IMO it'll be a drivers race at the drag strip.

We all thank you for direct real life response. So even hearing you say you think the new ZL1 will get into high 10's with DR's is good news. Wish the ZL1 had the elbow room the HC has! I imagine the HC may be retuned to allow more HP. We all know it is just being held captive and is already under the hood! LOL!

[Speedy1975]

With any of these modern forced induction cars, a pulley swap and tune change will yield BIG gains. Hellcats are seeing 850 - 900 RWHP with pulley and tune changes. ZL1 will likely be just as easy. As I've said before, it's a great time to be a car enthusiast.

[cvp33]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

With any of these modern forced induction cars, a pulley swap and tune change will yield BIG gains. Hellcats are seeing 850 - 900 RWHP with pulley and tune changes. ZL1 will likely be just as easy. As I've said before, it's a great time to be a car enthusiast.

Hellcats - Don't forget injectors and A2W intercooler upgrade. Most hitting north of 850rwhp are using upper and lower pulley for belt wrap. Most also upgrade the cooler. Still a cheap way to make reliable, repeatable power.

[Hypertrophy]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

With any of these modern forced induction cars, a pulley swap and tune change will yield BIG gains. Hellcats are seeing 850 - 900 RWHP with pulley and tune changes. ZL1 will likely be just as easy. As I've said before, it's a great time to be a car enthusiast.

From ~660 +\- to 900 with a pulley swap?

[17 White ZL1]

Magnuson's SS stock with there 2.3L SC and 20" DR ran a 10.8
I don't see why the ZL1 won't do that or be faster with DR ?

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by cvp33

Hellcats - Don't forget injectors and A2W intercooler upgrade. Most hitting north of 850rwhp are using upper and lower pulley for belt wrap. Most also upgrade the cooler. Still a cheap way to make reliable, repeatable power.

I did forget injectors. Lower pulley is changed often as well, but some just do the top.

Originally Posted by Hypertrophy

From ~660 +\- to 900 with a pulley swap?

Add injectors. I did forget about those when going that much.

The stock pulley makes only 11psi on the Hellcat and that's giving 650-670 RWHP bone stock. Figure, conservatively, 25RWHP per pound of boost up to a point, then efficiency would drop off a bit but it takes quite a bit with all the built in cooling. I've seen a lot of people posting up 18-20psi on these things with a blower and crank pulley change. I personally wouldn't push it that far, but people are.

That's the nice thing about most factory FI motors, small changes give big results as long as the internals are forged. Typically the engineers build in a lot of overhead for safety.

[*007]

As you can see on Chevy's 2017 GM page regarding it's engine, it says:

"driver-focused cockpit helps you get every last bit of performance from the supercharged 6.2L LT4 engine"

I know, it's the entire performance package, but as relates to the ENGINE only, comon GM, is it going to be EVERY last bit it is capable of as a production vehicle? Dodge got 707++ out of their 6.2.

Yes, I'm taking their statement literally. Understood. And I am isolating the engine horsepower in defining "every last bit of performance". And then, to say it will DOMINATE, well, being equal to is not dominating. So this is going to be controversial if it doesn't dominate the strip, track, and street. Waiting to see the performance specs.

[Hypertrophy]

Originally Posted by *007

As you can see on Chevy's 2017 GM page regarding it's engine, it says:

"driver-focused cockpit helps you get every last bit of performance from the supercharged 6.2L LT4 engine"

I know, it's the entire performance package, but as relates to the ENGINE only, comon GM, is it going to be EVERY last bit it is capable of as a production vehicle? Dodge got 707++ out of their 6.2.

The GM project managers for the LT4 in the ZL1 have already said that it "has more in it" but that emissions and mileage constraints led them to what they feel is a good compromise.

[*007]

Originally Posted by Hypertrophy

The GM project managers for the LT4 in the ZL1 have already said that it "has more in it" but that emissions and mileage constraints led them to what they feel is a good compromise.

Agree with you of course, that's exactly what Dodge said too... they had to REDUCE it to 707hp from 6.2L to meet those standards. So, again... we shall see if 2017 ZL1 dominates or not. We shall see if results live up to the "Dominate" promise or not. Kinda like Trump... "it's not what you say, it's what you do".... and you certainly don't want to be "crooked" on what you say!!

[crash0117]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I did forget injectors. Lower pulley is changed often as well, but some just do the top.



Add injectors. I did forget about those when going that much.

The stock pulley makes only 11psi on the Hellcat and that's giving 650-670 RWHP bone stock. Figure, conservatively, 25RWHP per pound of boost up to a point, then efficiency would drop off a bit but it takes quite a bit with all the built in cooling. I've seen a lot of people posting up 18-20psi on these things with a blower and crank pulley change. I personally wouldn't push it that far, but people are.

That's the nice thing about most factory FI motors, small changes give big results as long as the internals are forged. Typically the engineers build in a lot of overhead for safety.

Gonna need a little more than that to get to 900whp.
http://www.hotrod.com/features/1511-...odges-hellcat/

[Hypertrophy]

Originally Posted by crash0117

Gonna need a little more than that to get to 900whp.
http://www.hotrod.com/features/1511-...odges-hellcat/

That sounds more like it. All that and a "shot of nitrous" makes more sense.

[cvp33]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I did forget injectors. Lower pulley is changed often as well, but some just do the top.



Add injectors. I did forget about those when going that much.

The stock pulley makes only 11psi on the Hellcat and that's giving 650-670 RWHP bone stock. Figure, conservatively, 25RWHP per pound of boost up to a point, then efficiency would drop off a bit but it takes quite a bit with all the built in cooling. I've seen a lot of people posting up 18-20psi on these things with a blower and crank pulley change. I personally wouldn't push it that far, but people are.

That's the nice thing about most factory FI motors, small changes give big results as long as the internals are forged. Typically the engineers build in a lot of overhead for safety.

I agree, the car I know about personally has injectors, upper/lower pulleys, CAI, headers and a much larger A2W intercooler - all combined on a very aggressive tune with Q16. This combo made north of 850rwhp on a mustang dyno. It was tuned by DTP in Virginia Beach who also did my Procharger install/tune on my SRT8 putting down 625whp on pump gas, but made peak power near 700rwhp but ran out of fuel.

Having said all of the above, the challenges remain the same for the Hellcat:

1) Outdated chassis
2) Need for a CF or at least upgraded driveshaft
3) Needs a lot more tire under the rear even for straightline work
4) Just too damned heavy for road course work

The rumors around Fiat bringing a new chassis in '19/'20, the proven, reliable nature of the Hellcat's engine and Fiat/Chrysler's desire to stay relevant in the pony/muscle car wars are all reasons I wouldn't count them out just yet. Are they out for the '17/'18 model years? Yup. The same way that Ford has been here recently.

The best part about being a true "car guy" is when the BIG 3 decide to leverage their incredible engineering capabilities and experience to satisfy us car guys. We get to enjoy cars with north of 600hp, capable chassis and a warranty. Pipe dreams just 5 years ago. These are the good ol' days!!!!

[Speedy1975]

Brent at DTP is well respected and knows what he's doing.

As for the Hellcat being "out" I'd have to disagree with that. They sell like hot cakes and were never designed to be a "pony" car as I've said a lot in this thread. I personally hope they keep the Challenger as is, and if they do make a smaller car let it be a separate model. I love the road presence the Challenger has.

On the Hotrod article, I'm friends with Josh from HHP. That article was written back in November 2015. Things have progressed since then. I'm also friends with the owner of that HC, John Tout as well as his wife Linda. John's way past that now and was on point to win Unlimited at Challengerfest but had a mechanical issue late in the day.

Linda drives a red Charger and with just a pulley change (upper and lower) she was running 9s at Challengerfest this year. Lemme go ask them what all they did to her car and see how much power it made just to make sure I'm being factual. Linda won fastest female at my event in that Charger and she drives it daily I believe. I talked to her quite a bit as I was so surprised at how fast the car was with so little work. I need ton confirm on the injectors. Josh from HHP tuned it.