[mariojas]

Originally Posted by Number 3

It will be political simply because …well…. The internet.

I can assure you that the far bigger reason for converting to EVs more than California or democrats or martians is simply stock price and getting shareholder value.

Tesla was barely profitable up until only a few years ago and what profit they made was selling credits to other OEMs. But now slightly profitable actually selling cars their market cap is over a $789 BILLION. GM, making billions a year like money machine is worth a paltry $55 BILLION.

GM will likely sell fewer cars at even bigger profit and hopefully gate a HUGE stock price jump.

The government could easily force us to fix this problem. If tomorrow they made it illegal to drive a car older than 5 years old eliminating several hundred million cars that pollute far more we would immediately be better off than a 25 plus year conversion to EVs. They could even do what Japan has done for years by adding inspections and fees making it so expensive to drive a 3 year old car that it actually becomes cheaper to just buy a new car. They won’t. What they will do is create requirements that cause industry to fix it.

Many OEMs have stooped ICE development. Why? To meet emissions requirements around the world, not just in the US, will only happen with EVs. ICE improvement is done with tiny improvements possible. The 2.0t in my wife’s XT4 has a very slick indexing camshaft (look it up, very cool). It has full, partial and no lift lobes. I’ve heard it was $800 cost for about 1/2 mpg.

EVs, short of the vroom vroom sound are simply going to be the better product for most customers. And all those people that used to work on ICE will be working on even better, lower cost, faster charging EVs. Far better EVs are coming.

And 20 years from now they will be so much better it will be like trying to suggest your old dial phone was better than an iPhone 13 because you liked the feel of the dial and that, click click click sound when you let go.

Current offerings are already better for most.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

yeah,that would be fair and better for the environment to force people with cars with less than 100k miles on them to junk them and melt them into scrap.my 2015 camaro V6 is stock,gets decent mileage,looks and drives like new.i should go into debt and be forced into buying something i dont need just because thats the way they do it in japan?living on social security means i wont be buying a new car every three years,so the government gets what it really wants,the masses riding bicycles.

Wasn’t suggesting we do it, just showing how it gets done elsewhere.

Originally Posted by mariojas

Current offerings are already better for most.

Just not for most on this site……..yet

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Wasn’t suggesting we do it, just showing how it gets done elsewhere.



Just not for Maoist on this site……..yet

Please don't pretend you haven't taken the advocacy side of the EV argument.

Some people just know what they like. In spite of where the crusading social engineers want to take things. Their market is bastardized, it's all money printing. That investment money deserves to be deflated.

EVs can probably serve the rat race lifestyle decently. I still expect a lot of people to just accept what's presented to them. Or know better, but enjoy the perks of selling out.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by genxer

Please don't pretend you haven't taken the advocacy side of the EV argument.

Some people just know what they like. In spite of where the crusading social engineers want to take things. Their market is bastardized, it's all money printing. That investment money deserves to be deflated.

EVs can probably serve the rat race lifestyle decently. I still expect a lot of people to just accept what's presented to them. Or know better, but enjoy the perks of selling out.

This is one of the problems with 'social engineering', or if you prefer, 'central planning.'

People living in urban environments, who consider themselves smarter than everyone in flyover country, find that EVs work quite well for them. They therefore conclude, if it's works well for us, it will work well for everyone. Which of course isn't true.

Meanwhile, the automakers have their fingers in the political wind and they can certainly tell which way it is currently blowing. Kalifornia once again has the ability to set its own auto standards, the only state in the union with that option. Gee, I wonder why? Possibly because our overlords are comfortable that they won't do anything extreme.....like banning ICE cars? No, quite the opposite, the anti fossil fuels crowd is counting on Kalifornia doing exactly that: implementing rules that impact everyone in the country, but with no political accountability outside the most dysfunctional state in the union.

I have found my electric GoTrax scooter to be very convenient for my transportation needs around the lake where I live.

[wavsine]

Originally Posted by Number 3

EVs, short of the vroom vroom sound are simply going to be the better product for most customers.

You have been drinking Elon Musk Kool-Aid. For goodness sakes, here in Texas, ERCOT can barely keep the electric grid up and running with the existing demand. It's still springtime with fairly mild temps and we have already had cautions about turning down our thermostats to lessen the strain on the grid. Now fast forward to your Nirvana future and imagine the rolling blackouts, brownouts or grid collapse when you need to charge your car to go to work. And don't tell me the grid will slowly be upgraded. In Texas, they learned nothing from our 2021 hard freeze that froze hundreds of people to death when they had no power.

What many of you futurists don't get is that the shiny brand new Tesla you just bought will be dependent on an aging electrical grid that would cost billions to upgrade. America's roads, bridges and electric grid will cost more money to repair than we have. Of course, for now, us ICE guys are paying the gas tax so you can drive your EV on the roads for free.

One we get a statistically significant number of electric cars on the road, do you really think EVs will be a better product for most customers?

ROFLMAO

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by wavsine

You have been drinking Elon Musk Kool-Aid. For goodness sakes, here in Texas, ERCOT can barely keep the electric grid up and running with the existing demand. It's still springtime with fairly mild temps and we have already had cautions about turning down our thermostats to lessen the strain on the grid. Now fast forward to your Nirvana future and imagine the rolling blackouts, brownouts or grid collapse when you need to charge your car to go to work. And don't tell me the grid will slowly be upgraded. In Texas, they learned nothing from our 2021 hard freeze that froze hundreds of people to death when they had no power.

What many of you futurists don't get is that the shiny brand new Tesla you just bought will be dependent on an aging electrical grid that would cost billions to upgrade. America's roads, bridges and electric grid will cost more money to repair than we have. Of course, for now, us ICE guys are paying the gas tax so you can drive your EV on the roads for free.

One we get a statistically significant number of electric cars on the road, do you really think EVs will be a better product for most customers?

ROFLMAO

It wasn't that long ago Gov. Newsome was asking CA residents not to charge their EVs at night to reduce peak load on the system. I guess they were supposed to figure out a way to charge them while they were at work, or driving them.

But no worries, California is renowned for the efficiency of it's licensing and planning bureaucracy. They'll have additional infrastructure and generation facilities designed and built in no time at all, just as they did the recent billion dollar high speed rail project.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by wavsine

You have been drinking Elon Musk Kool-Aid. For goodness sakes, here in Texas, ERCOT can barely keep the electric grid up and running with the existing demand. It's still springtime with fairly mild temps and we have already had cautions about turning down our thermostats to lessen the strain on the grid. Now fast forward to your Nirvana future and imagine the rolling blackouts, brownouts or grid collapse when you need to charge your car to go to work. And don't tell me the grid will slowly be upgraded. In Texas, they learned nothing from our 2021 hard freeze that froze hundreds of people to death when they had no power.

What many of you futurists don't get is that the shiny brand new Tesla you just bought will be dependent on an aging electrical grid that would cost billions to upgrade. America's roads, bridges and electric grid will cost more money to repair than we have. Of course, for now, us ICE guys are paying the gas tax so you can drive your EV on the roads for free.

One we get a statistically significant number of electric cars on the road, do you really think EVs will be a better product for most customers?

ROFLMAO

I own a Tesla but this is one of my biggest concerns. How quickly can we scale the electrical grid and the number of required public chargers required to support rapid EV growth? And at what cost? We already see battery prices soaring due to limited raw materials required. Then we have the big issue of properly disposing and/or recycling all these batteries.

[mariojas]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I own a Tesla but this is one of my biggest concerns. How quickly can we scale the electrical grid and the number of required public chargers required to support rapid EV growth? And at what cost? We already see battery prices soaring due to limited raw materials required. Then we have the big issue of properly disposing and/or recycling all these batteries.

You don't need super charger at home for a regular daily commute. New homes has 200A supply from a long time, and with all new energy efficient appliances you probably have at least 100A spare for car charging. But 30A is enough to charge over night. Maybe not for a multi hundred kW batteries (which are currently only in huge vehicles due to size) for a road trip the next day. But road trips are taken care of industrial powered super chargers. There is no point real point in putting such a electron blasters at home.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by mariojas

You don't need super charger at home for a regular daily commute. New homes has 200A supply from a long time, and with all new energy efficient appliances you probably have at least 100A spare for car charging. But 30A is enough to charge over night. Maybe not for a multi hundred kW batteries (which are currently only in huge vehicles due to size) for a road trip the next day. But road trips are taken care of industrial powered super chargers. There is no point real point in putting such a electron blasters at home.

False statement... My wife and I have been home shopping for over a year. We just looked at two new homes in the past week. Electric Service is one of the things I always look at. All the new homes we have toured only have 100 amp services. None of them have any wired service to the garage to accommodate level II chargers. This is a big part of the problem. Every one assumes that "it's like this by me" so it has to be like this everywhere. Currently you have a very minimal part of the public driving and charging EVs at home. What happens when you have even 40% of people plugged into 50amp Level II chargers overnight that the current grid wasn't build for? To assume the appliances you use are more energy efficient and will allow for this is well... laughable honestly.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by wavsine

You have been drinking Elon Musk Kool-Aid. For goodness sakes, here in Texas, ERCOT can barely keep the electric grid up and running with the existing demand. It's still springtime with fairly mild temps and we have already had cautions about turning down our thermostats to lessen the strain on the grid. Now fast forward to your Nirvana future and imagine the rolling blackouts, brownouts or grid collapse when you need to charge your car to go to work. And don't tell me the grid will slowly be upgraded. In Texas, they learned nothing from our 2021 hard freeze that froze hundreds of people to death when they had no power.

What many of you futurists don't get is that the shiny brand new Tesla you just bought will be dependent on an aging electrical grid that would cost billions to upgrade. America's roads, bridges and electric grid will cost more money to repair than we have. Of course, for now, us ICE guys are paying the gas tax so you can drive your EV on the roads for free.

One we get a statistically significant number of electric cars on the road, do you really think EVs will be a better product for most customers?

ROFLMAO

^^^^^ This...Exactly!

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by jamala00

False statement... My wife and I have been home shopping for over a year. We just looked at two new homes in the past week. Electric Service is one of the things I always look at. All the new homes we have toured only have 100 amp services. None of them have any wired service to the garage to accommodate level II chargers. This is a big part of the problem. Every one assumes that "it's like this by me" so it has to be like this everywhere. Currently you have a very minimal part of the public driving and charging EVs at home. What happens when you have even 40% of people plugged into 50amp Level II chargers overnight that the current grid wasn't build for? To assume the appliances you use are more energy efficient and will allow for this is well... laughable honestly.

Same with apartments too and not just in Rural areas but big Metropolitan Areas as well. Not against EVs but people need to use their brains and realize stuff like this. There are also many apartment complexes out there as well that have parking spaces with no where to charge at home.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by mariojas

You don't need super charger at home for a regular daily commute. New homes has 200A supply from a long time, and with all new energy efficient appliances you probably have at least 100A spare for car charging. But 30A is enough to charge over night. Maybe not for a multi hundred kW batteries (which are currently only in huge vehicles due to size) for a road trip the next day. But road trips are taken care of industrial powered super chargers. There is no point real point in putting such a electron blasters at home.

I am aware. I use a 50amp circuit with a Tesla WallConnector. The point is that when everyone gets home from work and the AC is cranking and then they plug in the car(s) and draw another 30-50amps for steady 4-8 hours, what will the impact be on the grid.

Furthermore, many home do not have 200amp service. Also consider apartment complexes, condos, townhomes, etc.

[David Gordon]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Besides being a climate change denier - something that to me is hilarious because he touted his ECONOMICS degree so we should take HIM seriously, yet deep down he ignores the VAST MAJORITY OF SCIENTISTS in the world who back the science behind climate change - it's like far-right weirdos sit around and try to attack credibility of anyone they deem their "enemy" because they said something "not nice".

Oh yeah, and Texas' electric grid woes are due to a colossal failure of leadership, and that is squarely on your governor. Losing electricity as long as they did during the winter snowfall last year (that totally isn't due to climate change, right?) was pathetic.

Who did the dinosours blame for climate change? Asking for a friend.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by David Gordon

Who did the dinosours blame for climate change? Asking for a friend.

Some type of ism for sure. Asteroid Denialism? Anthropoidism? Structural Avian racism?