[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by LeonardS

I think the biggest issue is “where is all this electricity going to come from”? Our Electric Coop says they don’t have access to enough electricity if there are 3,4,5 EV’s on every block.

We need to assume that power generation companies are not sitting still. There are billions of dollars being invested in improving the grid over the next decade or so. In any event, a lot will depend on when and how EVs are charged. If they are charged off-peak the grid as it exists now should already be sufficient to handle the demand. This past year, electric vehicles account for 0.2% of the energy generated nationally. That’s with just over 2 million EVs on the road. By 2030 we should expect to see about 4 million EVs added per year, so that 0.2% number will increase significantly, but still not expected to draw more than about 10% of grid capacity. And still, it comes down to when and how the vehicles are charging. Everybody charging at 9:00 am would be a problem. Everybody charging between 11 pm and 6 am not so much.

This is a clip from a Wall Street Journal article on the topic. They reference Argonne National Labs, one of the leading centers of expertise on electric vehicle charging studies. Bold emphasis is my highlighting certain points.

Power generation

The nation’s approximately 12,000 utility-scale power plants generate electricity by burning natural gas, coal or oil, splitting atoms or tapping the energy in sunshine, wind or water. So far, EV charging uses a minute fraction of this power production.

A recent study by the Argonne National Laboratory found that the 2.1 million EVs on U.S. roads in 2021 used less than 0.2% of the 3,930 trillion watt hours of power consumed overall that year.

Projections of how much electricity EVs will consume in coming years vary widely. The Electric Power Research Institute, a nonprofit that gives guidance to the power industry, estimates that EVs of all sorts, including buses and commercial trucks, will boost the nation’s overall use of electricity between 8% and 13% by 2030 from 2021. These vehicles will consume 7% to 11% of all U.S. electricity generation by that year, the group estimates.

[MichaelG]

The electricity I put in my Tesla is generated mostly from clean burning natural gas.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by 1fastz28

lets not pretend that petroleum is somehow a clean and environmentally efficient fuel source.

Who said that it was? Answer, no one. Who keeps telling us EVs are the savior of the environment and refuse to acknowledge the environmental issues that make that statement laughable? Answer, massive dishonest lobbying efforts, governments looking for silver bullet fixes to climate issues and most importantly, gullible consumers who actually believe this nonsense.

[Devstrike]

Allan nailed it.

[CHASLT1]

Originally Posted by Number 3

If there is a Camaro EV (2028 give or take) it will be faster than 3.1



There is only one thing missign with an EV and that's the NVH. Or in non engineering terms, vroom vroom. Otherwise an EV is pretty much better in most driving situations. And keep in mind an ICE in 10 years will not be any better than today. They are tapped out which is why everyone is going EV. Batteries? Millions are going to get up Monday morning and go to work to invent the next gen. FYI, most cars in 2025? The batteries for those are not in production yet.



Ok this is fine, but what will it be replaced with because it won't be ICEs.



Yes, yes they are. If you were to do a weee bit of unbiased research you would see that they are. Not day one due to manufacturing, but in a year and a half or so they have crossed over and are cleaner. Sorry, but it's how it works out.



GM has the Bolt and Bolt EUV well under $30,000. The new Equinox EV should also be under $30K. Nope, not a Spark or Trax but under $30k is going to be more prevalent.



Again, do some unbiased research. You'll see this isn't quite true. Partially yes, but research will show that even coal fired power plants aren't that bad compared to the number of ICEs on the road.


So to be honest, an EV will not likely give you vroom vroom sounds or the vibration of a high performance engine. But it will handle, it will be fun to drive and it will have character. And sorry for the anit EV crowd, it will be cleaner overall.

And other than vroom vroom sounds (Stelantis has a fix lol) engieers are working every single day to fix the remaining complaints of EVs and LiION batteries. ICEs? There is no pay back for inventing anything at this piont. EVs? Payback for inventing any improvements is HUGE. So as an engineer, I am highly confident that engineers will address everything but the NVH issue.

I had a Bolt for 1.5 years and it was perfect. Just missed having a C6 so went back for number 3. Would have loved a C7 but after the 2019 C7 i had to lemon law i would never touch another one with a A8 out of warranty. C8's are priced way too high. Hope a EV version small reg cab pickup comes out one day. I don't need a hulking full size 4 door.

[Jus Cruisin]

10 years ago I was absolutely against EV's but now I'm fine with them. I got tired of storing a gas can (and having it go bad if it wasn't used fast enough) and switched over to Ego lawn equipment as the 2 stoke gas motors crapped out and also replaced the lawnmower. I've had the lawnmower for 6 years with the original battery still hanging in there. Now, since moving to Michigan, I even have an Ego snowblower. They are perfect for my use. Even have an electric golf cart.

Will I buy an EV? Not sure. I highly doubt I'll still be living in 2035. I may own my last vehicles right now which are both gassers.
Curious how this whole thing will affect the boating industry. I have one with twin 496's.... The boat with electric cart in the foreground.

[LeonardS]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

We need to assume that power generation companies are not sitting still. There are billions of dollars being invested in improving the grid over the next decade or so. In any event, a lot will depend on when and how EVs are charged. If they are charged off-peak the grid as it exists now should already be sufficient to handle the demand. This past year, electric vehicles account for 0.2% of the energy generated nationally. That’s with just over 2 million EVs on the road. By 2030 we should expect to see about 4 million EVs added per year, so that 0.2% number will increase significantly, but still not expected to draw more than about 10% of grid capacity. And still, it comes down to when and how the vehicles are charging. Everybody charging at 9:00 am would be a problem. Everybody charging between 11 pm and 6 am not so much.

This is a clip from a Wall Street Journal article on the topic. They reference Argonne National Labs, one of the leading centers of expertise on electric vehicle charging studies. Bold emphasis is my highlighting certain points.

Power generation

The nation’s approximately 12,000 utility-scale power plants generate electricity by burning natural gas, coal or oil, splitting atoms or tapping the energy in sunshine, wind or water. So far, EV charging uses a minute fraction of this power production.

A recent study by the Argonne National Laboratory found that the 2.1 million EVs on U.S. roads in 2021 used less than 0.2% of the 3,930 trillion watt hours of power consumed overall that year.

Projections of how much electricity EVs will consume in coming years vary widely. The Electric Power Research Institute, a nonprofit that gives guidance to the power industry, estimates that EVs of all sorts, including buses and commercial trucks, will boost the nation’s overall use of electricity between 8% and 13% by 2030 from 2021. These vehicles will consume 7% to 11% of all U.S. electricity generation by that year, the group estimates.

That sounds great……not. Why do California and Texas already have brownouts and blackouts? Also, during the winter months I would bet power usage is the greatest from sunset to sunrise in my area, when temperatures are very cold. Some areas may be able to make good use of EV’s, but the initial rush to EV’s probably won’t come from my area.

[CHASLT1]

Originally Posted by Jus Cruisin

10 years ago I was absolutely against EV's but now I'm fine with them. I got tired of storing a gas can (and having it go bad if it wasn't used fast enough) and switched over to Ego lawn equipment as the 2 stoke gas motors crapped out and also replaced the lawnmower. I've had the lawnmower for 6 years with the original battery still hanging in there. Now, since moving to Michigan, I even have an Ego snowblower. They are perfect for my use. Even have an electric golf cart.

Will I buy an EV? Not sure. I highly doubt I'll still be living in 2035. I may own my last vehicles right now which are both gassers.
Curious how this whole thing will affect the boating industry. I have one with twin 496's.... The boat with electric cart in the foreground.

I went to all EGO stuff back in 2017 and it has never missed a beat. Bought a new Craftsman mower in 2015 that lasted about 2 years.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by LeonardS

That sounds great……not. Why do California and Texas already have brownouts and blackouts? Also, during the winter months I would bet power usage is the greatest from sunset to sunrise in my area, when temperatures are very cold. Some areas may be able to make good use of EV’s, but the initial rush to EV’s probably won’t come from my area.

Both states have brownouts and blackouts primarily due to over use during peak hours. Basically hot as hell + air conditioners running + middle of the day (peak hours) = system stressed to the limit.

Most EVs are charged overnight during off-peak hours and have no impact on what happens during peak usage.

Fun fact…many of the more recent EVs have bi-directional charging, meaning they can supply a charge. What this means is an EV owner can draw charge overnight and then return power to the grid during peak usage, potential for more than they paid for drawing the power overnight. This is an arbitrage opportunity. There is a bus fleet that did exactly that and earned an average of $10,000 per bus selling power back to the grid. Fast forward to about 4:30 in this video for details https://youtu.be/gtzMhQtl364

Not all states allow for selling power back to the grid, but it is possible in all states to push energy from your EV back to your home, effectively using your EV as a home generator. Ford Mach E, and Lightning, Hummer EV, Lyriq, and several other EVs are already capable of this and most EVs launching soon will also have it.

Back to California and Texas…Texas also has (had?) an issue where they had not protected the grid for extreme winter weather, because it doesn’t snow in Texas. Until it does.

[MichaelG]

Here is some real data regarding "off-peak" hours. My electric energy consumption has doubled in my household with just ONE EV. Most of my EV charging is done during off peak hours which in reality is the highest level of consumption in my household. Get where I'm going...?

I live in the land of Tesla's (second youngest city in the nation with a population that favor EV's) and these cars are common in my neighborhood. Off-peak rates are not that much better in my area.

Blackouts are too common during the worst times of the year which is usually when its 98 degrees outside at 9:00 pm. Don't kid yourself that the grid can handle it.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Both states have brownouts and blackouts primarily due to over use during peak hours. Basically hot as hell + air conditioners running + middle of the day (peak hours) = system stressed to the limit.

Most EVs are charged overnight during off-peak hours and have no impact on what happens during peak usage.

Fun fact…many of the more recent EVs have bi-directional charging, meaning they can supply a charge. What this means is an EV owner can draw charge overnight and then return power to the grid during peak usage, potential for more than they paid for drawing the power overnight. This is an arbitrage opportunity. There is a bus fleet that did exactly that and earned an average of $10,000 per bus selling power back to the grid. Fast forward to about 4:30 in this video for details https://youtu.be/gtzMhQtl364

Not all states allow for selling power back to the grid, but it is possible in all states to push energy from your EV back to your home, effectively using your EV as a home generator. Ford Mach E, and Lightning, Hummer EV, Lyriq, and several other EVs are already capable of this and most EVs launching soon will also have it.

Back to California and Texas…Texas also has (had?) an issue where they had not protected the grid for extreme winter weather, because it doesn’t snow in Texas. Until it does.

How dare you assault us with facts. How dare you.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

How dare you assault us with facts. How dare you.

One of the many things that sucks about being me.

There is no doubt that individual localities will have varying levels of stress to the grid due to

• Differences in climate norms
• Differences in how local power companies equip their grid
• Different rate schedules allowed by regional utility regulatory agencies

So, to quote an oft-stated saying that started in the auto industry…your mileage may vary.

There is no doubt that EVs will fit better in some localities (northern California) than others (North Dakota). For some people’s situations, EVs will be the best thing since sliced bread. For other people’s situations a lot of things need to change before owning an EV makes sense. For most of those people, ICE products are still gonna be around for several more decades. Just not as many produced every year and some product types (muscle cars, sports cars, coupes, most sedans) will disappear altogether in ICE form. But for the most popular vehicle types (CUV, SUV, Pickup) buyers will be able to choose from both columns. Some brands may cease to provide ICE products (GM, VW) but others will continue to offer ICE options (Ford, Toyota) until it is no longer economically feasible to support both technologies.

[90503]

Originally Posted by CHASLT1

I went to all EGO stuff back in 2017 and it has never missed a beat. Bought a new Craftsman mower in 2015 that lasted about 2 years.

I got rid of my gas lawnmowers and edgers years ago. I put in all new landscaping front and back yards, that don't need a lawn mower, gas or electric, and conserve water. Maintaining the gas equipment was a pain and almost as expensive as paying a gardener, which I also no longer use.

My yard work now is 99% only requiring a leaf blower. I had and still have a very nice and powerful but noisy Stihl 2cycle leaf blower, and glad I kept it. I purchased a good Stihl battery blower with an extra battery to use and keep the noise down as a courtesy to my neighbors. It works fine for a quicky clean up using both batteries in the process. If the yards need more attention from wind or a period of not being cleaned, the electric will not keep up or finish the job with 2 batteries. The gas blower does the job in less than half the time. (My neighbor has all electric mowers and they are weak. He runs them all day to do the job a gas mower would have done in a fraction of the time). Lesson learned for me regarding battery lawn equipment. I take the time to maintain all my gas Stihl equipment, weed-whacker, blower and chain saws. California is in for a rude awakening once they ban the sales of gas powered lawn equipment and hand tools.

Sorry for the long boring story, but I think it parallels EV cars. Nice for light duty and limited amount of run time, but losing gas powered as a back up or more effective alternative is not a good idea. Keep ICE going as long as possible, electric batteries are a weak replacement.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by CHASLT1

I went to all EGO stuff back in 2017 and it has never missed a beat. Bought a new Craftsman mower in 2015 that lasted about 2 years.

Originally Posted by 90503

I got rid of my gas lawnmowers and edgers years ago. I put in all new landscaping front and back yards, that don't need a lawn mower, gas or electric, and conserve water. Maintaining the gas equipment was a pain and almost as expensive as paying a gardener, which I also no longer use.

My yard work now is 99% only requiring a leaf blower. I had and still have a very nice and powerful but noisy Stihl 2cycle leaf blower, and glad I kept it. I purchased a good Stihl battery blower with an extra battery to use and keep the noise down as a courtesy to my neighbors. It works fine for a quicky clean up using both batteries in the process. If the yards need more attention from wind or a period of not being cleaned, the electric will not keep up or finish the job with 2 batteries. The gas blower does the job in less than half the time. (My neighbor has all electric mowers and they are weak. He runs them all day to do the job a gas mower would have done in a fraction of the time). Lesson learned for me regarding battery lawn equipment. I take the time to maintain all my gas Stihl equipment, weed-whacker, blower and chain saws. California is in for a rude awakening once they ban the sales of gas powered lawn equipment and hand tools.

Sorry for the long boring story, but I think it parallels EV cars. Nice for light duty and limited amount of run time, but losing gas powered as a back up or more effective alternative is not a good idea. Keep ICE going as long as possible, electric batteries are a weak replacement.

I can only echo these observations. Gave EGO a try in 2017 with a lawnmower, then gradually expanded the "arsenal" with a leafblower, a weedwhacker, even a chainsaw, plus a couple spare batteries so as to always have one available for uninterrupted work while recharging (these things only last 30-45 minutes on one charge). Perfect for light duty regular jobs.

When real power and much longer cycles are required, however, these are no competition to gas or diesel equipment. As far as I'm concerned, they can coexist very well, thank you, and there is no need for one to "obsolete" or "phase out" the other.