[JKSully]

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Everyone talking about Dodge’s advertising, but did you guys forget about this gem?

https://youtu.be/ZMfhpH-lihM

I had...and it's a good one. But it was 17 years ago so it's really a case of "what have you done for me lately?" as far as ads go.

[SHE'Z 18]

Let us not forget about this “throwback classic”!!

https://youtu.be/pa3GydPuyLY

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by JKSully

I had...and it's a good one. But it was 17 years ago so it's really a case of "what have you done for me lately?" as far as ads go.

I’m just nostalgic about Cobalts. I had two of those shitboxes and loved every second of them

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Elaborate please. Other than TV advertising which is only a small portion of what marketing actually is I was looking what excellent marketing Dodge has done. Serious question for discussion.

See the OP for another clue.

Originally Posted by Number 3

You don’t recall GM claiming 10 years ago that they were no longer about sales but PROFIT? You may have missed that and GM remains HUGELY profitable. So for GM? Your metric isn’t what they are using. And it’s why we don’t see TV commercials for the Camaro. They want more profit not more sales. And putting bigger discounts on Camaro or paying for TV commercials might lead to more sales just not more profit. But most (see above) don’t get that.

If they are making such a profit on selling 5 cars a year, maybe they need to keep the Camaro around longer and REALLY make some dough?

Originally Posted by Number 3

What everyone is chasing is Tesla’s stock price. Tesla is just now profitable building and selling cars. Up until last year they made money selling credits to Stellantis (which include Dodge). Yet Tesla has a market cap 20x higher than GM. Notice the GM stock bump when they announced going 100% EV by 2030?

Right, Tesla made no money actually selling cars. Their angle for the longest was the credits. So much for the "make 5 cars a year theory because it's more profitable that way" theory.

And, the only way these glorified slot cars are going to sell is because they will be forced on the public.

Electric cars have been around since the dawn of the automobile and they have failed time and time again because the motoring public does not like them.

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/5009-1...el-v-victoria/

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

See the OP for another clue.




If they are making such a profit on selling 5 cars a year, maybe they need to keep the Camaro around longer and REALLY make some dough?



Right, Tesla made no money actually selling cars. Their angle for the longest was the credits. So much for the "make 5 cars a year theory because it's more profitable that way" theory.

And, the only way these glorified slot cars are going to sell is because they will be forced on the public.

Electric cars have been around since the dawn of the automobile and they have failed time and time again because the motoring public does not like them.

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/5009-1...el-v-victoria/

Wasn’t looking for clue, but discussion. Something I miss and used to find at Camaro5. We’ve degraded to the internment.

Other than the TV ads I wasn’t aware of any other attempts by Stellantis to market the car. GM and Ford use NASCAR heavily to market Camaro and Mustang as does Toyota. Haven’t seen much else on Charger/Challenger.

Yes if your sales degrade to 5 you won’t be in business.

I was there for a lot of years when GM spent a ton for market share. I still have my “29” pin where GM made a bold statement that was the line in the sand. GM made money on car loans most of those years but not making cars. I remember seeing the list that included the 6 cars GM made that were profitable. SIX.

And I did chuckle at your EV comment. I’ll tell you he story I often repeat of a cold February day at the Milford Proving Grounds when a guy pulled an EV1 into the garage. I asked wht the range was on a cold day like that. 17 miles he said. The technology has come a long way and unlike ICEs which have very few tricks left, a long way to go.

So “people don’t like them” implies all people which just isn’t the case and it’s changing every day. Tesla has proven that.

[ZL1plumbin]

2024 dodge has the “first” electric muscle car coming out. I haven’t read/seen when they’re killing off the ICE models of the challengers/chargers.
Either way IMO the next few years is going to be the time to purchase a front engine rear drive (especially manual trans) sports car like a Camaro etc.
Some people aren’t in the loop and don’t realize these will be gone forever and not to long after “all” ICE cars.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by ZL1plumbin

2024 dodge has the “first” electric muscle car coming out. I haven’t read/seen when they’re killing off the ICE models of the challengers/chargers.
Either way IMO the next few years is going to be the time to purchase a front engine rear drive (especially manual trans) sports car like a Camaro etc.
Some people aren’t in the loop and don’t realize these will be gone forever and not to long after “all” ICE cars.

If I remember correctly they said there will be an overlap of ICE and EV on the "muscle cars". But the plan, like "everyone else" is pure EV.

And for the record I am keeping my eye on this, as much as I piss and moan about EV, this has me intrigued.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

its the demographic...dodge drivers have more fun.ask farmer fran...

I am not sure about more fun, but the SP WB is a blast to drive.

[Seniorrs]

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

I’m just nostalgic about Cobalts. I had two of those shitboxes and loved every second of them

The 08 cobalt turbo held car& driver LL record for front drive until recently. Beat by civic type r. I sat in a modern challenger a few years ago.I understood then that the hood does indeed extend all the way to the 1970's.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Wasn’t looking for clue, but discussion. Something I miss and used to find at Camaro5. We’ve degraded to the internment.

Don't get me wrong, Number 3, but it's difficult to have a discussion with you, because I can't recall a single instance when you acknowledged any point of view other than what you have already repeated ad nauseam. You simply steer back to your initial statements even in the face of facts such as Dodge being #1 and them following a marketing strategy that includes aggressively advertising their muscle cars.

I, and most likely others, understand your perspective, even conceded several good points you've made over time, but discussion will only ensue if you are willing to do the same. No problem at all and no hard feelings on my part, it's just that there is little motivation to discuss things with someone in a setup like this.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Number 3

And I did chuckle at your EV comment. I’ll tell you he story I often repeat of a cold February day at the Milford Proving Grounds when a guy pulled an EV1 into the garage. I asked wht the range was on a cold day like that. 17 miles he said. The technology has come a long way and unlike ICEs which have very few tricks left, a long way to go.

So “people don’t like them” implies all people which just isn’t the case and it’s changing every day. Tesla has proven that.

FWIW, I own a Tesla Model 3 and a Camaro ZL1. They entertain in very different ways. The Model 3 makes for a great daily driver. Putting the much lower operation costs aside, EVs tend to be easier to drive in traffic as you basically use one pedal in stop and go, you get brake hold while at a light and they are quiet and very smooth. They have instant effortless power, which is probably the most noticeable difference when folks first drive one. This makes sense as the torque curve for an EV is basically a square wave. The tech is great, Tesla Autopilot reduces driving fatigue on highway trips, voice AI, built-in music streaming and satellite maps, over the air updates, etc.

That said, the ZL1 is the car I prefer when I actually want to drive. The exhaust note, rise and fall of the RPM as it rips through the shifts, much sharper suspension, Recaro seats that hold you in place and aggressive styling make the Camaro driving experience something special and put a smile on my face every time I drive it. You don't see features like magnetic ride suspension, drive modes, LSD, sporty interiors, HUD, etc. in a Tesla, at least not yet.

If Dodge puts a couple powerful EV drive units and a big battery they will easily have 1000hp cars putting down unbelievable numbers but will this be enough? I am not so sure 0-60mph times will really matter all that much in an EV world. They all take off like a bat out of hell with instant torque like that. I think it will get more interesting when they start putting an electric motor on each wheel to create improved driving dynamics. One thing is for sure, doing burnouts with no exhaust noise just seems weird. Tesla won't even let you spin the tires, no nanny control, except for Track Mode, which is only available on the P models and is not practical to keep on all the time. Maybe Dodge will find a way to add some character and fun to EVs?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

FWIW, I own a Tesla Model 3 and a Camaro ZL1. They entertain in very different ways. The Model 3 makes for a great daily driver. Putting the much lower operation costs aside, EVs tend to be easier to drive in traffic as you basically use one pedal in stop and go, you get brake hold while at a light and they are quiet and very smooth. They have instant effortless power, which is probably the most noticeable difference when folks first drive one. This makes sense as the torque curve for an EV is basically a square wave. The tech is great, Tesla Autopilot reduces driving fatigue on highway trips, voice AI, built-in music streaming and satellite maps, over the air updates, etc.

That said, the ZL1 is the car I prefer when I actually want to drive. The exhaust note, rise and fall of the RPM as it rips through the shifts, much sharper suspension, Recaro seats that hold you in place and aggressive styling make the Camaro driving experience something special and put a smile on my face every time I drive it. You don't see features like magnetic ride suspension, drive modes, LSD, sporty interiors, HUD, etc. in a Tesla, at least not yet.

If Dodge puts a couple powerful EV drive units and a big battery they will easily have 1000hp cars putting down unbelievable numbers but will this be enough? I am not so sure 0-60mph times will really matter all that much in an EV world. They all take off like a bat out of hell with instant torque like that. I think it will get more interesting when they start putting an electric motor on each wheel to create improved driving dynamics. One thing is for sure, doing burnouts with no exhaust noise just seems weird. Tesla won't even let you spin the tires, no nanny control, except for Track Mode, which is only available on the P models and is not practical to keep on all the time. Maybe Dodge will find a way to add some character and fun to EVs?

Great points. What I always counter with is if GM had NOT used Alpha to give the Camaro a weight and performance advantage over the Mustang, what would this trite have looked like? Yayyyy the he Camaro weighs more than the amustang, is slower to 60 than the Mustang and gets its ass whipped on every track by the Mustang………but MAN does that LT1 sound soooooo much sweater than the Mustang. Man did we come out top. Thanks GM!

Would never of happened. Ever.

What I have predicted, and you can go back and check me on it, is GM will absolutely kill it if they make an EV coupe and call it a Camaro. Not an SUV like Mustang, but a no crap all out performance Pony Car that we can’t even imagine. GM has the very the best Ride and Handling engineers in the industry (I could go on and on how I believe this) and I believe if challenged to get an EV Camaro to be equal to or better than todays Camaro they will deliver. I just hope that this time it’s also the best coupe first (2015 posts) and a great Camaro second.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Great points. What I always counter with is if GM had NOT used Alpha to give the Camaro a weight and performance advantage over the Mustang, what would this trite have looked like? Yayyyy the he Camaro weighs more than the amustang, is slower to 60 than the Mustang and gets its ass whipped on every track by the Mustang………but MAN does that LT1 sound soooooo much sweater than the Mustang. Man did we come out top. Thanks GM!

Would never of happened. Ever.

What I have predicted, and you can go back and check me on it, is GM will absolutely kill it if they make an EV coupe and call it a Camaro. Not an SUV like Mustang, but a no crap all out performance Pony Car that we can’t even imagine. GM has the very the best Ride and Handling engineers in the industry (I could go on and on how I believe this) and I believe if challenged to get an EV Camaro to be equal to or better than todays Camaro they will deliver. I just hope that this time it’s also the best coupe first (2015 posts) and a great Camaro second.

Yeah, I think most Camaro owner are frustrated a bit because they know that this car is technically better than the Dodge and Ford competition as well as some BMWs, Audis, Supras, etc. GM built a car for Camaro driving enthusiasts. This means cool looks with the high belt line and not caring about visibility, rear seats and trunk openings. Those were all compromised to get the look and performance they wanted. I fall into this category so it represents an unbelievable car for the price. Unfortunately, the demographic of folks like me is relatively small. The Dodge is the big bruiser with the retro throwback vibe and terrific marketing and branding. I am not a Ford fan, but the Mustang is a bit easier to live with and has a big following. I would only compare the Camaro to the Shelby trims where the Mustang gets more focused and even them they do not get me all that excited.

As for a Camaro EV, I am not sure if they should use the name or not. If the rumor is true and they are planning a 4 door performance EV sedan then maybe they can reboot the Chevy SS? It would probably ride on the same chassis as the an EV caddy. I just can't see a 4 door Camaro. The Mustang EV SUV is just weird.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Don't get me wrong, Number 3, but it's difficult to have a discussion with you, because I can't recall a single instance when you acknowledged any point of view other than what you have already repeated ad nauseam. You simply steer back to your initial statements even in the face of facts such as Dodge being #1 and them following a marketing strategy that includes aggressively advertising their muscle cars.

I, and most likely others, understand your perspective, even conceded several good points you've made over time, but discussion will only ensue if you are willing to do the same. No problem at all and no hard feelings on my part, it's just that there is little motivation to discuss things with someone in a setup like this.

Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with this...

Now, as far as discussion...

5 cars is a little sarcasm. The Camaro production numbers might as well be that low. I am sure the car isn't profitable due to such a low volume.

When you have people walking up to your car and saying "WOW! This is really nice! What is it?", you have a brand issue.

When you have people saying "Nice Mustang!", you have a SERIOUS brand issue.

Conversely, everybody and their dog knows what a Hellcat is and what it can do.

Now, on select models, you can order Challengers and Chargers "ala carte" to a degree. That is supposed to be unrealistic and not profitable in today's auto manufacturing world. But, they are doing it and guess what? Their sales will continue to climb....

Meanwhile, gm continues to watch sales dwindle and seem perfectly content with it.