[SirJangle]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Tesla just released the Model S plaid+. $140k, under 9 sec 1/4 mile, 520+ range, under 2 second 0 to 60.....200 mph top speed.

And, there's the number one problem. EVs are not affordable to the masses. The market will fail if the masses can't afford them. Hell, even the entry-level Mach-E isn't affordable to most.

Time will tell. It always does. But, manufacturers will only produce what consumers demand. At least at a broad level. If there's no demand, it'll go away. They aren't going to produce products that they aren't selling. It's that simple.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by SirJangle

Time will tell. It always does. But, manufacturers will only produce what consumers demand. At least at a broad level. If there's no demand, it'll go away. They aren't going to produce products that they aren't selling. It's that simple.

Only if market forces plus morality/common sense are allowed to shape the future, which does not apply to socialist regimes. Not sure the folks that call us change deniers and conspiracy theorists know how that s**t is used to run over people, it's very dangerous. I have seen it.

Let's hope people wake up in time to prevent that from happening here, as right now it's about 11:59PM. With that, I'm out before the ban comes

[ST1LE]

LOL, this months "you'll pry my ICE from my cold dead hands" thread is going nicely.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Tesla just released the Model S plaid+ under 9 sec 1/4 mile

...and again I ask, how many 9 second passes before the battery pack is at least 1/2 cooked?

That part is never advertised or even discussed. I doubt anyone here even knows.

A slightly modded BMW S1000RR can do a whole lotta 9 second passes on a tank of gas. For $20k.

[ZED SLED]

[Vtor_ZL1]

We're not riding around on horseback much either. EV ftw.

[ZED SLED]

Road Trip!

[SirJangle]

^^^ Now, that's funny! And, true!

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by Vtor_ZL1

We're not riding around on horseback much either. EV ftw.

Batteries are still charged by "fossil" fuels.

Hydrogen is the ultimate fuel - God would know, the sun doesn't run out of fuel - but it's a long ways off. Batteries are heavy, among other disadvantages

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by SirJangle

And, there's the number one problem. EVs are not affordable to the masses. The market will fail if the masses can't afford them. Hell, even the entry-level Mach-E isn't affordable to most.

Time will tell. It always does. But, manufacturers will only produce what consumers demand. At least at a broad level. If there's no demand, it'll go away. They aren't going to produce products that they aren't selling. It's that simple.

Model 3 starts at $34k, Model X $37k. So very affordable to the masses compared to others that are merely jumping into the electric vehicle game that Tesla has been owning for years now. The Model S Plaid+ I mentioned is, dare I say, hyper car territory and of course $140k.

I could go off your comment and say that no vehicle manufacturer makes an affordable SUV because Cadillac's are $100k!

Now GM releasing the new Hummer is outrageously priced. That will fail in less that 3 years because of the price.

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

...and again I ask, how many 9 second passes before the battery pack is at least 1/2 cooked?

That part is never advertised or even discussed. I doubt anyone here even knows.

A slightly modded BMW S1000RR can do a whole lotta 9 second passes on a tank of gas. For $20k.

And I could go buy a old ass Honda Civic and do a "whole lotta" 8-9 second passes for under $20k......

This isn't a motorcycle topic but my 2011 ZX10r will do a "whole lotta" 9 seconds passes for $11k that I purchased for that price brand new in 2012. We're talking about electric cars/trucks/SUVs, by the way.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by puppykat33

well gents its not the performance aspect most have a problem with. The ISSUE MOST people have a problem with is the gov mandating this EV crap on the premis that it is better for the environment which if you have done any real research into lithium you would know it is in fact NOT better. It takes massive amounts of energy to properly dispose of, and it and puts off toxic gases that are worse for the environment than the emission put out by car engines. The reason you don't hear about it is that no one is effectively disposing of these lithium battery's yet, they are just piling up... I think china has some 5 million tons per yer produced and just sitting around because they cant dispose of it properly. Not to mention the lithium mines are horrific.. so this is the problem, when the government say its better and low information masses of people just buy what they are selling without actually looking into it.


The problem with agendas pushed like this is the people pushing them rarely ever consider the 2nd 3rd 4th order long term consequences of them. So lets take California's no gas engines by 2025/2035 and play a game. 1st order effect= all gas engine producers/manufactures in the state will half to close or convert resulting a loss of jobs, Gas engine aftermarket parts industries again loss of jobs. 2nd = gas stations will now half to convert to charging stations/gas stations in turn the price goes up of they simply close because they cant afford to keep up again loss of jobs. 3rd=price/cost for truckers delivering goods to the state will go up due to increased fuel cost in the state so now the price of everything goes up. 4th California already has an unstable power grid which cannot keep up with current demand at times so where are they going to find all the extra power so ppl can charge their cars at night? 5th since we have established the 1000% increase in demand for power where will it come from? are they going to build a nuclear plant? Hydro? ??? All horrible for the enviroment.. ALL of which defeat the clean green power initiate which they are trying to accomplish. not to mention how toxic lithium production/disposal is
Wake up people and research for your self.

I could go into who holds controlling interest in lithium ie stock holders from mining to charging stations and i bet you will find a lot of senators with stock holdings in these markets but this sounds like conspiracy theory and i like to just stick with FACTS
FACT= EV is not better for the environment..

FACT= since most of the us power comes from fossil fuels you are actually putting off more pollution charging your car than if you had a regular engine. Dont believe me? go look it up.


Speculation=But i bet this EV push it is better for someones wallet..

I will just focus on the environmental arguments here. Your economical arguments seem totally fine, and it is hilarious to see California trying to be green with a terrible power grid.

EV has its own share of pollution, sure, but what about gasoline? The production for gasoline isn't particularly clean, especially if that oil is coming from places where regulations are scarce to minimize production cost.

It's not about eliminating the pollution altogether, it's about minimizing it.

And emission controls at a powerplant can be more effective than the ones in our cars, if done properly. Powerplants generally run at a steady state, so you can set up devices that can optimally capture the emissions at that state, unlike ICE cars that bounce loads and RPM all over the place.

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

So you bought your Camaro to slowly shift your own gears? Great reasoning

I am faster than 90% of the cars on the road. That's good enough.

And I especially love it when some people in a freaking Honda Accord trying to tell me how automatics are faster.

Again, this car is supposed to be fun for me, I don't need anyone to define fun for me.

Sent from toaster or something

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

And I could go buy a old ass Honda Civic and do a "whole lotta" 8-9 second passes for under $20k.....

Really? A single turbo Honda Civic running 9s is probably 20k for the turbo kit and supporting parts alone

And I like to see a video of you running 9s on a 2011 ZX-10R

[LT4 650]

Originally Posted by Smokin19

Having spent over 30 years in the electric power business, I can tell you the grid is WAY worse than you can even imagine. Between generation and distribution, it will take TRILLIONS to update the grid and many, many years.

Touche! I spent almost 19 years in the electric power industry as a financial analyst. The grid is in rough shape...(more than any of you could imagine...or want to know about)...and then to expect it to fuel all of our cars? And what happens when there is a power outage...because that never happens and a whole country of electric cars would seriously strain the system daily. Do we all just stay home that day or week or month until they restore the power? Throw utility reliability out the window...LOL

I look at this article as GM saying what is environmental safe to say but to actually pull this off will take way more than just GM...all the power companies across America will have to be ready. I remember back when electric cars starting getting popular...we did a study for our PSC on what it would cost to provide the necessary metered charging stations and the cost was astronomical and that was just our service area. Now you need it all across America...who is going to pay for that? The return from the Electric car customers is not enough to pay for all that infrastructure.

Great idea for the economy and the planet but not realistic in my mind. Another way to look at...it is what they call a corporate "stretch" goal but the reality may end up being something closer to 50% of the fleet???

Just my 2 cents!

[SirJangle]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Model 3 starts at $34k, Model X $37k. So very affordable to the masses compared to others that are merely jumping into the electric vehicle game that Tesla has been owning for years now. The Model S Plaid+ I mentioned is, dare I say, hyper car territory and of course $140k.

I could go off your comment and say that no vehicle manufacturer makes an affordable SUV because Cadillac's are $100k!

Now GM releasing the new Hummer is outrageously priced. That will fail in less that 3 years because of the price.

To the masses, the middle class, $34K isn't affordable:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...rs-priced-out/