TSP Stage 3 Cam (stock heads) results (C7 GS). Need heads... - Page 4

*Joshinator99* · 03-25-2020, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nabush

My interrogation is will a 95mm non ported be better than a ported 87mm ?

Yes, 95mm all day over any 87mm TB.

Nabush · 03-25-2020, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

It says stock bottom end in his sig.

This would be impressive considering Katech need a fully built 427 LT1 to reach 700hp....

BlackbeastSS2 · 03-25-2020, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nabush

This would be impressive considering Katech need a fully built 427 LT1 to reach 700hp....

LT1 820 HP NA Get the check book out.

You will need 14:1 compression. RPM set at 8500 and lot of goodies to hold that engine together.

https://www.enginelabs.com/news/buil...-lt1-with-lme/

Nabush · 03-25-2020, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackbeastSS2

LT1 820 HP NA Get the check book out.

You will need 14:1 compression. RPM set at 8500 and lot of goodies to hold that engine together.

https://www.enginelabs.com/news/buil...-lt1-with-lme/

I'm staying cheap thanks

oldman · 03-25-2020, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackbeastSS2

LT1 820 HP NA Get the check book out.

You will need 14:1 compression. RPM set at 8500 and lot of goodies to hold that engine together.

https://www.enginelabs.com/news/buil...-lt1-with-lme/

its cool for OHV

BlackbeastSS2 · 03-25-2020, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldman

its cool for OHV

Maybe the occasional street drive. Mouth guard required at an idling stop light. Lol

Nabush · 03-25-2020, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

Yes, 95mm all day over any 87mm TB.

I started to dig a little, and for example Tick performance says a 95mm is like 5hp more than a ported 87mm... Does not seem really worth it ...

Think I'm gonna first go with the CNC ported heads, then I'll review..

*Joshinator99* · 03-26-2020, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nabush

I started to dig a little, and for example Tick performance says a 95mm is like 5hp more than a ported 87mm... Does not seem really worth it ...

Think I'm gonna first go with the CNC ported heads, then I'll review..

The more the rest of your combo makes, the more the 95 will be worth over the 87...

6spdhyperblue · 03-26-2020, 07:26 AM

Also I hope you swept the cam on the dyno. Using values in the scanner don’t align with power output in this case.

Nabush · 03-26-2020, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

Also I hope you swept the cam on the dyno. Using values in the scanner don’t align with power output in this case.

On the 10-15 runs I made the rpm was taken out of the common of one of the coils. It was matching VCM scanner exactly.

6spdhyperblue · 03-26-2020, 09:18 AM

I don’t understand the rpm bit, what is matching? If you were doing this on the street how were you determining increase and descreases in power? I’m only talking about the cam angle tuning

oldman · 03-26-2020, 02:06 PM

There are more than a few Integra builds running E85 with 14:1 CR, I think it is an interesting solution because it is very hard to push that engine past 275 engine HP from 2.1 liter (bored and stroked) on 93 octane 12.5:1. With E85 the car can be DD on 14:1 CR and able support the street cam. On a VTEC engine basically 4 cams, the street lobes put dynamic compression into the detonation zone. On a OHV or non-VTEC dynamic compression drops the CR in low mid-range to allow DD usage without detonation. Nutshell E85 is used to get the old B engine into the modern K engine HP range NA. I would have just swapped in a K24 2.4 liter and build it to about 300 HP NA, but I have a original Type R and there is some collectable value in the car.
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/10/01/...auction-63800/

Fuel economy does go down say from 28 MPG overall to 25 MPG on E60+. I always say it takes a lot of theory to make a 4 banger use as much gas as a V8.

Before I did (heads, cam, supercharger), I was thinking about (416, heads, cam, E60, 12.5 to 13.5 CR). Off the cuff the increase in size and CR would add 75 HP over any DD 6.2 liter build. About 1/2 the HP gain of a supercharger but way less complicated and way lighter. The bigger engine and the higher CR allows the use of a nice 110 to 112 LSA cam, so this build would be a very responsive, midrange torque monster. The larger engine size also helps in gaining compression without a complicated piston head design. It is interesting to note in the above build LT4 heads are used with their much large 65.47 cc chamber and they could still get 14:1CR. Humm, the piston looks to have a very high dome and maybe the custom head gasket is much thinner. I just don't know enough to understand why the LT4 head was picked (yes it is slightly more dense due to the rotary casting method), but a larger chamber usually is NOT picked on a E85 NA build.

Nabush · 03-26-2020, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

I don’t understand the rpm bit, what is matching? If you were doing this on the street how were you determining increase and descreases in power? I’m only talking about the cam angle tuning

If you were attentive you would have seen the dyno graph posted in the first page of this topic...

oldman · 03-26-2020, 03:08 PM

I was just thinking an E50 mix with 91 octane would allow for a nice head shave / thin gasket combo say to 12.5 to 1 and that would bring up dynamic compression and may go a long way to help the OP's midrange power loss. I did talk about it before, so that would be an option. I just tossed 12.5 around. I don't know for sure but the factory gasket is heck of thick... looks like cometic makes a .028 thick one.

RockAuto shows the LT4 gasket as .055" thick, and the LT1 as .054" thick. That is 7 layer vs 5 layer.
So thinking out loud, 4" stroke would have an ideal .348 chamber height. so the cometic gasket alone would but that to .320 or 12.5:1 CR. Somebody check on my math.

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/...ratio-for-e85/

03-26-2020, 07:26 AM	#51
6spdhyperblue Drives: 2SS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: US Posts: 3,794	Also I hope you swept the cam on the dyno. Using values in the scanner don’t align with power output in this case. __________________

03-26-2020, 09:18 AM	#53
6spdhyperblue Drives: 2SS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: US Posts: 3,794	I don’t understand the rpm bit, what is matching? If you were doing this on the street how were you determining increase and descreases in power? I’m only talking about the cam angle tuning __________________ Last edited by 6spdhyperblue; 03-26-2020 at 10:46 AM.

03-26-2020, 02:06 PM	#54
oldman Drives: SS 6 speed of course Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Hilo, HI Posts: 4,346	There are more than a few Integra builds running E85 with 14:1 CR, I think it is an interesting solution because it is very hard to push that engine past 275 engine HP from 2.1 liter (bored and stroked) on 93 octane 12.5:1. With E85 the car can be DD on 14:1 CR and able support the street cam. On a VTEC engine basically 4 cams, the street lobes put dynamic compression into the detonation zone. On a OHV or non-VTEC dynamic compression drops the CR in low mid-range to allow DD usage without detonation. Nutshell E85 is used to get the old B engine into the modern K engine HP range NA. I would have just swapped in a K24 2.4 liter and build it to about 300 HP NA, but I have a original Type R and there is some collectable value in the car. https://www.autoblog.com/2018/10/01/...auction-63800/ Fuel economy does go down say from 28 MPG overall to 25 MPG on E60+. I always say it takes a lot of theory to make a 4 banger use as much gas as a V8. Before I did (heads, cam, supercharger), I was thinking about (416, heads, cam, E60, 12.5 to 13.5 CR). Off the cuff the increase in size and CR would add 75 HP over any DD 6.2 liter build. About 1/2 the HP gain of a supercharger but way less complicated and way lighter. The bigger engine and the higher CR allows the use of a nice 110 to 112 LSA cam, so this build would be a very responsive, midrange torque monster. The larger engine size also helps in gaining compression without a complicated piston head design. It is interesting to note in the above build LT4 heads are used with their much large 65.47 cc chamber and they could still get 14:1CR. Humm, the piston looks to have a very high dome and maybe the custom head gasket is much thinner. I just don't know enough to understand why the LT4 head was picked (yes it is slightly more dense due to the rotary casting method), but a larger chamber usually is NOT picked on a E85 NA build. __________________ Forged short block, large duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, 7200 RPM fuel cut, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0 pump, ported front cats, 60608 Borla, LT4 injectors, ZL1 1LE driveshaft and Katech ported TB, ported MSD intake, BTR valvetrain, ARP studs, ProFlow valves, PS4 tires.

03-26-2020, 03:08 PM	#56
oldman Drives: SS 6 speed of course Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Hilo, HI Posts: 4,346	I was just thinking an E50 mix with 91 octane would allow for a nice head shave / thin gasket combo say to 12.5 to 1 and that would bring up dynamic compression and may go a long way to help the OP's midrange power loss. I did talk about it before, so that would be an option. I just tossed 12.5 around. I don't know for sure but the factory gasket is heck of thick... looks like cometic makes a .028 thick one. RockAuto shows the LT4 gasket as .055" thick, and the LT1 as .054" thick. That is 7 layer vs 5 layer. So thinking out loud, 4" stroke would have an ideal .348 chamber height. so the cometic gasket alone would but that to .320 or 12.5:1 CR. Somebody check on my math. https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/...ratio-for-e85/ __________________ Forged short block, large duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, 7200 RPM fuel cut, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0 pump, ported front cats, 60608 Borla, LT4 injectors, ZL1 1LE driveshaft and Katech ported TB, ported MSD intake, BTR valvetrain, ARP studs, ProFlow valves, PS4 tires. Last edited by oldman; 03-26-2020 at 03:21 PM.

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