[lawguy85]

Also, the Supra is lighter, has the similar tire widths (fronts 255 Supra, 245 SS, both 275 rear) and better tires (Pilot Super Sports v. Eagle F1s) than the SS. Also explains why it's so close acceleration wise, similar contact patch, better rubber, puts power down more efficiently.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=218

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by lawguy85

Yes, yes, let the hate flow...

...on a serious not, again (or should I say AGAIN), we're not talking the Z4 here, wer're talking Supra (or 5upra). They said there was, at minimum, a completely different tune on it v. the Z4. See the above quote, from Toyota, not (or NOT) conjecture. Toyota was given access to a parts bin with none of the engineering/tuning/associated knowledge of those parts. All sides (or ALL 5ides) have said as much. They haven't been known for fudging dyno numbers in over 20 years, why would the suddenly start?? The 335 is from Toyota, not BMW. Raging out about how BMW's practices mean Toyota is fudging their HP figures (while completely ignoring torque, the determining factor for acceleration [try Google sometime, friend] is quite entertaining.

Hate? Raging?

I don't know where you're getting that from? Chill out dude, there is absolutely nothing to get upset about here. If this is how you are online maybe you're best off avoiding the internet?

[F1FTY]

Originally Posted by lawguy85

...because we have facts. But for some reason facts don't matter anymore. Just call something fake, in spite of all the evidence, and people fall in line, lock step. And we have reason, but reason no longer matters either. Only the "feeling" that Toyota is lying (because BMW does?) matters. Not the concrete numbers I provided. Not the physics of torque being the metric with more correlation to acceleration. None of that actual evidence matters and it's maddening, not in I'm upset, I'm genuinely baffled at the complete disregard for empirical data and official quotes from Toyota. My brain genuinely hurts because it cannot comprehend the hand waving going on.

Wow, you are really way too invested in this discussion. Your numbers are not concrete, they are media day PR subject to change as we’ve seen below. You are using media reports with sourcing from said media day and attempting to create law from it. All I’ve been saying is that the history isn’t there and that we need some more data to see if the published number is correct or not.

This is not a courtroom nor is it legally incriminating to be skeptical of numbers presented at a marketing exercise.

This makes the opposite point you think it makes. BMW underrated their 0-60 and only corrected it once Toyota released theirs. More simply put, this proves we should trust what Toyota is saying because BMW revised their numbers in the face of Toyota's, not vice versa. Ergo, we should absolutely believe Toyota that the Supra has 335hp and look more skeptically at BMWs, as BMW has proved to be conservative, not Toyota.

Is Toyota a client of yours?

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by lawguy85

...because we have facts. But for some reason facts don't matter anymore. Just call something fake, in spite of all the evidence, and people fall in line, lock step. And we have reason, but reason no longer matters either. Only the "feeling" that Toyota is lying (because BMW does?) matters. Not the concrete numbers I provided. Not the physics of torque being the metric with more correlation to acceleration. None of that actual evidence matters and it's maddening, not in I'm upset, I'm genuinely baffled at the complete disregard for empirical data and official quotes from Toyota. My brain genuinely hurts because it cannot comprehend the hand waving going on.



This makes the opposite point you think it makes. BMW underrated their 0-60 and only corrected it once Toyota released theirs. More simply put, this proves we should trust what Toyota is saying because BMW revised their numbers in the face of Toyota's, not vice versa. Ergo, we should absolutely believe Toyota that the Supra has 335hp and look more skeptically at BMWs, as BMW has proved to be conservative, not Toyota.

Oh my lord...

Ok, I responded without seeing this. You need meds dude, you are not well. IDK why you need to get so mad about something so unimportant. Logoff and go find your nearest mental health practitioner.

[F1FTY]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Oh my lord...

Ok, I responded without seeing this. You need meds dude, you are not well. IDK why you need to get so mad about something so unimportant. Logoff and go find your nearest mental health practitioner.

We really don’t know what’s going on in his head but yeah...compared to some discussions on here that take a wrong turn, this shouldn’t have been one of them.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Lol, NOT too focused on HP, it's the definition of how much power is available to do work and the MAIN fact5or in acceleration times, esp 1/4 mile.

It's not a conspiracy, it's a FACT that Germans underrate power.

Your assumption that this isn't happening with the Supra is likely wrong due to claimed acceleration times, but we'll see for sure when they get on dynos.

I've been in to Mini for a while, cars not skirts... Anyway since 2014 they are BMW engines same 4 banger that is in many BMW and probably the Supra too. I can tell you with no bias, cause I really like Minis, is the engine is WEAK sauce, especially considering how much more torque vs HP. A 189 HP turbo min at 2900 lbs will get spanked by a Civic SI at 205 HP at about 50 lbs weight. The 228 HP JCW gets spanked hard and from all directions.

I don't buy and never did this "underating" most times it is a dyno measuring STD (fake HP) that is "happy". Just my two sense.

[oldman]

just saw a full video of it, I got to say I was OK with the look, but the full video, that car is really really ugly. Just another Civic Type R (too ugly to buy) IMO. I own / owned two Integra Type Rs

[soloknight6]

No stick? Wtf.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by soloknight6

No stick? Wtf.

They said they'd consider the option later.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by soloknight6

No stick? Wtf.

Oh, there's a stick alright. The Ugly Stick that it was beaten with.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by lawguy85

Also, the Supra is lighter, has the similar tire widths (fronts 255 Supra, 245 SS, both 275 rear) and better tires (Pilot Super Sports v. Eagle F1s) than the SS. Also explains why it's so close acceleration wise, similar contact patch, better rubber, puts power down more efficiently.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=218

It will match up well to the standard SS, the SS 1LE however has nothing to worry about, at least in the handling department. Straight line, maybe.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by HighIron

Too plain. Not enough vents, slots, compound curves, and other appurtenances.

Exactly!

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Eh, this thing looks odd. The proportions seems off, or something. The rear end is strange. The headlights are weird, and that odd side door scoop seems out of place. The whole car sort of looks like a refreshed/redesigned Scion FR-S, which I never liked either.

[Spartan268]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Eh, this thing looks odd. The proportions seems off, or something. The rear end is strange. The headlights are weird, and that odd side door scoop seems out of place. The whole car sort of looks like a refreshed/redesigned Scion FR-S, which I never liked either.

It's sort of what the people asked for. I hated the FRS but everyone's complaint was the lack of power and now they got the power. Although I agree with the ugly. Not my cup of tea. Ironically everyone is losing their mind over this new supra it's actually pretty funny. The amount of bickering and nitpicking is hilarious. JDM boys will never change.