[DFW1LE]

Kind of a simplistic view and its my opinion only, if your use is as a daily driver and drag racing > go Procharger; if you want all around fun daily driver with occassional drag racing and road racing > I'd go Maggie or LT-4 conversion; if your main interest is road course > I'd go NA

[Chevy71]

Originally Posted by DisturbedSS

3 camaros - 3 different SCs here. Maggie, procharger and edelbrock. By far the best overall experience was the maggie. No issues, zero maintenance and instant power. How often do you DD at high RPM or redline?...well the 95% of the time I drive like a normal person the maggie felt like a beast. The procharger was disappointing honestly and unless I was mashing the pedal, stock felt just as fast at lower RPM. That and it was just plain inconvenient to change SC oil at a specialty shop across town, take an uber to work, take an uber back, pay 65 bucks and do this every 6k miles.

Maybe I got a bad Edelbrock setup, but had all kinds of lunging and heat soak issues. Was frustrating.

All my setups were stock with a custom tune. Longevity is important to me.

If you bought your camaro to drive it daily and decide to drop 9K on a SC with install, maggie will make that everyday drive a blast hands down. If you are the 2% thats only interested in racing, then none of what I say applies.

Very fair point of view. I daily mine and like it much more than the screw set ups. With mine the IAT's were always high, and when sitting in traffic on the way home from work in the summer it would get warm enough to even pull power from the car until I got some fresh air flowing. The instant torque also had my whimsy street tires crying all the time. I was always peddling the car to get it to move fast on the street. With the centrifugal set up's Ive never had to deal with that and you can really put the power down (yes it still breaks lose, but it's manageable). With my CTS-V I had to put a chiller system on just to keep that ineffiecnt heat exchanger in check. I also don't have to mash the pedal to crack my valve and get boost to the engine, it feels really nice on the road when it's putting just a few pounds of boost, and it goes forward when I do this, no spinning. It's been my most fun daily car yet and very fast.
As for changing the oil, there is no way I would pay someone to change the oil in my blower. It takes literally less than two minutes and it's only 6oz of fluid. I open the cap, crack the fitting off on my drain line. It drains for maybe 20 seconds, put the cap on and empty a container of oil in it. Very simple and doesn't need done very often at all. I'm all for all of them, I enjoyed every one of my set ups and it was way better than stock. I just don't know about the drastic difference mentioned and in my opinion the screws are not as fun or street friendly all around.

[Chevy71]

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

my comments throughout speak for themselves. I am not guessing. 2 Prochargers, 1 Vortech, 2 twin turbos (including my current daily driver), and 1 magnuson. I specifically called out the BS argument about traction and lag...

1.I assume that you realize the difference between roots and twin screw, even though you are using the term interchangeably?
2. Please check the fast list, twin screw guys are not adding a higher stall converter, but every centri blower on the fast list will, because it helps them jump into the peak power of the centri blower.
3. You can look at the power curves from any centri car, including your Procharger. If a pd blower has 100rwtq more torque from the jump, then someone who is used to the Pd, will perceive the build in boost as lag. It’s just how they work, a centri builds boost with rpm. A Pd blower runs full boost throughout.
- that being said, if you read the thread, you will also see that I called the lag argument BS because when you add a converter to the Centri, it jumps to a higher rpm range where the torque curve is higher...making the power instant.

Again, I was only playing with OP. I said the LT4 blower was an excellent choice...I also advised that all of the blowers were excellent choices and finding the tuner you want to use and following their recommendation was the way to go. So, thank you for calling me out, but next time, please read the thread before doing so, thanks.

Fair enough, maybe I jumped the gun on it. I'm sorry about that. I took it as you slamming the advice all the commenters gave the OP that were not pro roots style, which I did not feel was very fair.

1. I do know the difference, the meshing lobes are what make up the difference (twin screws meshing together with a screw which takes less power to turn, internal compression style, vs roots that uses two three lobe meshing agents, more like a pump,) compared to an impeller on the procharger/vortech. I was more less comparing the positive dispacement idea vs the centrifugal idea.

2. I haven't looked at that list, I started to track my results there and just lost touch with the site. I'm going by the builds I have done, and what my friends at the track are running. They can't get fast times with a stock converter, were the pro charged guys can. The only T.C's I have put in no the jobs I have done are with the PD guys. That is just my personal experience in my part of the world. I think lethal switched to a PD, has slower times and needs a converter now? I've lost touch with his stuff as well though so that may have changed.

3. You are right in the PD has all of it's torque in the 2k range, and the centrifugal does not. You are not right about the boost though. You get all of your boost right away, it just builds torque/HP much like a turbo. Lag is when the turbo is spooling up so you have 0 or very low boost, this does not happen with a Centrifugal, you have a lot of power and all of the boost, you only actually build 1 or 2 psi in the RPM range. I started with PD supercharged cars because I thought that was the best there ever was, when I switched to the vortech, I never felt lag, in fact it went from having all the torque (which feels awesome on the seat dyno) right away and that torque being steady then falling off at high rpm, to switching over with the centrifugal and it puts me in my seat and as I build RPM it pulls harder and harder on you and never stops.. it's constantly putting you in the seat more and more as you build rpm. It's an awesome feeling and easy to put on the ground. Yes street tires still scream for their mommy, but you can make it work (at least I could) easier, and I was able to post better times in my 60' and my total 1/8 and 1/4 with my centrifugal powered cars.

I agree 100% with you, the tuner makes a huge difference. All of these will net you in the stock Camaro, with the entry size blowers about 140-150hp gain. How it brings the HP and TQ on will change with each unit and the manner of the car on the road will change. The tuner will make the difference in dialing those parts in and getting the most out of them.

[Soleil]

I have another question. Is a boost gauge compulsory? If yes, which one and where to install it.

[Dysan911]

Originally Posted by Chevy71

switching over with the centrifugal and it puts me in my seat and as I build RPM it pulls harder and harder on you and never stops.. it's constantly putting you in the seat more and more as you build rpm. It's an awesome feeling and easy to put on the ground

100% agree with this. Never was this description more accurate than when I was pulling data logs for Ted. In 3rd gear from 1,500rpm. Stomp it and don't let off until 6,500. Now typically under normal driving I would never floor it from 3rd gear at such a low RPM but were simulating a dyno pull basically. I grab hold of the steering wheel and HOLD ON and the way it feels is exactly as Chevy71 described. No mercy until you let off.

I can only assume the PD type superchargers would push you back hard down low and as you get higher and higher in the RPM begin to feel like it's letting up.

Question: Would the PD Type blower be harder on the pistons/rings vs Centri given that the PD is a constant 7-8psi or higher through the entire RPM Range as well as typically having higher IATs? The Centri builds boost as it rises through the RPM and quite a bit lower IAT's but my understanding is the PD is full boost immediately until you let off.

[Chevy71]

Originally Posted by Dysan911

I can only assume the PD type superchargers would push you back hard down low and as you get higher and higher in the RPM begin to feel like it's letting up.

The PD style slams you back and loses it's umph as you drive through your RPM's, it's not drastic, but you can tell it isn't pulling as hard as you get to the top end. Still a nice feeling, but nothing like I experience with the Centri and turbos.

Originally Posted by Dysan911

Question: Would the PD Type blower be harder on the pistons/rings vs Centri given that the PD is a constant 7-8psi or higher through the entire RPM Range as well as typically having higher IATs? The Centri builds boost as it rises through the RPM and quite a bit lower IAT's but my understanding is the PD is full boost immediately until you let off.

The pressure on the pistons is really coming from crankcase pressure which obviously is coming from the boost. It's hard to say for sure if it's harder on them, but it does smack a lot of load to the engine early. At higher RPM it's not as big of a deal as lugging back and letting that valve open under low rpms.

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by Chevy71

Fair enough, maybe I jumped the gun on it. I'm sorry about that. I took it as you slamming the advice all the commenters gave the OP that were not pro roots style, which I did not feel was very fair.

1. I do know the difference, the meshing lobes are what make up the difference (twin screws meshing together with a screw which takes less power to turn, internal compression style, vs roots that uses two three lobe meshing agents, more like a pump,) compared to an impeller on the procharger/vortech. I was more less comparing the positive dispacement idea vs the centrifugal idea.

2. I haven't looked at that list, I started to track my results there and just lost touch with the site. I'm going by the builds I have done, and what my friends at the track are running. They can't get fast times with a stock converter, were the pro charged guys can. The only T.C's I have put in no the jobs I have done are with the PD guys. That is just my personal experience in my part of the world. I think lethal switched to a PD, has slower times and needs a converter now? I've lost touch with his stuff as well though so that may have changed.

3. You are right in the PD has all of it's torque in the 2k range, and the centrifugal does not. You are not right about the boost though. You get all of your boost right away, it just builds torque/HP much like a turbo. Lag is when the turbo is spooling up so you have 0 or very low boost, this does not happen with a Centrifugal, you have a lot of power and all of the boost, you only actually build 1 or 2 psi in the RPM range. I started with PD supercharged cars because I thought that was the best there ever was, when I switched to the vortech, I never felt lag, in fact it went from having all the torque (which feels awesome on the seat dyno) right away and that torque being steady then falling off at high rpm, to switching over with the centrifugal and it puts me in my seat and as I build RPM it pulls harder and harder on you and never stops.. it's constantly putting you in the seat more and more as you build rpm. It's an awesome feeling and easy to put on the ground. Yes street tires still scream for their mommy, but you can make it work (at least I could) easier, and I was able to post better times in my 60' and my total 1/8 and 1/4 with my centrifugal powered cars.

I agree 100% with you, the tuner makes a huge difference. All of these will net you in the stock Camaro, with the entry size blowers about 140-150hp gain. How it brings the HP and TQ on will change with each unit and the manner of the car on the road will change. The tuner will make the difference in dialing those parts in and getting the most out of them.

That is news to me. It doesn't match my experience at all...but maybe I am missing something. I have never heard anyone suggest a PD blown car would benefit from a converter MORE than a turbo or Centri car. It defies logic to me and doesn't match my experience, but it's completely possible I am missing something.

Looking at the current active threads, Laynlo runs a PD Magnusson ET 10.0 with stock everything (no converter) before getting his final tune...138mph. When he was running 550 rwhp, he was trapping in thr 129 range (no converter). A Procharged car making the same 550whp, no converter is trapping 118mph in a current thread.

If the PD car has crazy low torque low in the rpm range, why would anyone add a converter which makes the car jump higher in the rpm range faster? That would mean jumping up in rpm to a place with less torque. I don't get it. Not from a performance perspective, are you thinking there is another reason to do it?

Competitively, a Centri car, just like a turbo will build power as boost builds. The torque down low is barely more than stock when you are at 2psi. However, if you add a converter that helps jump to 3500 or 3700 rpm then you are in a spot with more boost and more torque, hence faster.

Look, I am only trying to help out because I had my cars at the track. With my Procharged Vette, I was running 780whp and with Dr's I was running 10.2's at 138mph. To make that happen, I upgraded from P1 to D1 and I had to add a stall converter because at first, without the converter, I was getting smoked by my mustang buddies running their PD blowers. For sure the gearing today is much better than the gearing then, so maybe there's a difference. Would love to see some of these timeslips from Centri cars with no converter.

I would like to see what a stall converter would do to a car like Laynlo's. It would also be interesting to see how the torque curve changes with a cam...does it make a stall converter more desirable on a PD? Since I am about to start my install, I should have a torque curve to compare to Laynlo'a this month....maybe I will check into the converter.

Would be sweet to have a 9sec timeslip for a vert that could dd if I wanted to. ��

Regardless, to OP. . .you are on a good path. Get your tuner and you are set. Laynlo and Jannetty have been the ones I selected. Feel free to ping me if you have any questions. Otherwise, not trying to hijack your thread.
Thanks.

[Chevy71]

I think you are looking at the converter very one sided maybe? remember, it does more than just set your lock up, and launch rpms, it also sets your shifts, and what rpm you land at after a shift, it is also responsible for putting your TQ/HP to the ground. Just because you have all your TQ at 2,200 rpm doesn't mean you are making the HP needed. Remember TQ gets you out of the hole and HP gets you down the track. Higher RPM means more HP, solid shifts, smoother shifts, and a little loser set up all seem to really benefit the PD guys. I think Vengeance has done a handful of Whipple builds all with converters in them (I just read about a Z06 they did the end of last month), weapon X has a handful, and as I mentioned Lethal is on another journey with a Whipple now and needing a converter. Just do a little digging to keep me from writing a book.

[DFW1LE]

Originally Posted by Chevy71

Remember TQ gets you out of the hole and HP gets you down the track.

I agree, the way I always looked at is that TQ makes your car feel fast, but HP wins races.