[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by DFW1LE

Are there any threads that have best practices for launching our cars, both M6 and A8?

Plenty of discussion here:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=256

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by 2NASSTY

The MPH will come with practice, quick shifts, shifting consistently on each gear change at 6200-6400 rpm. The biggest factor will be -DA on MPH. Gotta have good air

I hear ya! I was thinking gear changes should be closer to 6400-6500 though, to wring out max torque / speed from each gear.

Let me know if I understand this right. Density Altitude (DA) is a measure of the air density at a given altitude, adjusted for barometric pressure and relative humidity. For our purposes, this basically tells us how much oxygen we can pack into each cubic foot of air going into the intake for combustion.

I was a helicopter crew chief and mechanic for half my USMC career so I have some insight on this relationship. Aircraft have 2 altimeters, a barometric altimeter concerned with engine and rotor performance and a radar altimeter that keeps you from violating restricted airspace or clipping power lines and such. Jet and turbojet engines also benefit from high density air, so long as it's clean and cool.

Turbojet engines are all about compressing air for combustion, similar to superchargers and turbochargers. I understand that, all else being equal, a higher barometric pressure will cause more atmospheric oxygen to be concentrated in a cubic foot of air.

What I'm not sure about is how the humidity / dew point affects this. Is it assumed that moisture will displace oxygen within a given volume of air?

--Cal

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by 93oh

Air doesn't get better then January. It's pulling shifts at 6200. Launch tc off at around 1000 and squeeze out and slowly bury it and shift at 6200, bang shift into second as so on should go faster. He did well but saying mph is way off. Indicative of short shifting. Also, yes hot lapped it so car probably had its tongue hanging out.

You must be talking about manual launch, right? 1000 RPM sounds too low to get any torque at launch. Are you saying that I should rev to 1000 when after I stage, then ease out the clutch while simultaneously increasing in the throttle? That's what I've been referring to as "feathering the clutch" but I thought I'd have to start at a much higher RPM.

I know I short shifted one or two times but I'm pretty sure I kept it above 6400 most of the time. The sound in the spectator vids is affected by the doppler effect, raising the pitch on the low end (approaching the camera) and lowering it on the high end (going away from camera). So you think 6200 RPM is at the top of the power band for this LT4 motor? It seems to still be pulling hard after that. If memory serves, it begins to drop off around 6400 or better, depending on what gear I'm in.

I did hot lap most of the day to get in as many practice runs as possible. I shut the motor off for about 15 min or so each time they halted the street car line for the dragsters and motorcycles. That gave me 3 or 4 runs each time before shutting down. I could have gotten 1 or 2 more per cycle if I switched lanes on the turnaround since for some reason the left lane always had fewer cars lined up. I was staying in the right lane for most of my runs 'cause that's where my GoPro was mounted.

Thanks for the feedback.

--Cal

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

Pretty hard to get into a car you've never driven on track before and lay down a number you can't improve upon. When I run my car I focus on the 60'which is done with getting the suspension dialed in and the mph is done by getting the tune right.

Thanks. I'm sure I'll improve over time.

Only thing I can do with the suspension is tires but I'm not sure I want to spend the $$ on DRs if I don't plan to make drag racing my primary activity. My plans are mainly focused on road courses.

I'm not ready to throw away the warranty yet by getting an engine tune but I think I can improve my 60' times with a little work on the manual launch and my MPH and ETs with work on my shift points.

Thanks for the insights.

--Cal

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

I agree with 93oh on the launch. If you watch magazine drivers, when they test a car like this but it has street tires, they launch at low RPM, like 1000-1500, and add gas as rapidly as they can while still maintaining traction. Dumping it at 4000 or using launch control doesn't achieve as good of results. I remember one tester doing the 5th gen ZL1 and he used Launch control and did a 4.1 0-60, and then did it by himself and went like 3.8, same car, same tires, in the same 10 minutes.

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by laynlo15

There are a bunch of 16ss Camaro's including mine that ran in the 11's with either drag radials or slicks. Mine and snowblind ran over 121, mine with just drag pack and Cai, snowblind did a little more weight removal. I think most is driver issues with launching the car. Drag radials will help a bunch. Nice right up and videos

Wow! That's impressive for the 6th Gen SS! The SS is not that much lighter than the ZL1 so the DRs and I'm sure launching skills played a big part in those numbers. Did you save your slips? It would be interesting to compare with mine and others.

Thanks.

--Cal

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by NB2017ZL1

Thanks for doing this Cal!

You're welcome. I try to write and illustrate the way I'd like others to do for me. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

--Cal

[17CamaroZL1]

Originally Posted by cwebster

I think it's at 6600 because I've watched my PDR videos and seen it touch 6500 without the rev limiter kicking in. Watching the spectator videos it does seem like I short-shifted a few times. I'll work on that...

You're right. 6600 should be the rev limiter. That's what GM listed for the max RPM.

Originally Posted by cwebster

My goals for this trip were mainly focused on getting used to the car and track, dialing in the Custom Launch settings, and improving my skills, so I wasn't real concerned about the ETs so much as my technique. Of course, when you're lined up against a fast car you tend to act more on instinct. I've got to make sure I've got good habits (technique) first before I can rely on instinct. Getting good at manual launch will be the next big step, I think, providing I remember to lower tire pressure and hit my shift points properly.

You're exactly right. Your adrenaline starts pumping, you get butterflies in your stomach, and it's hard to keep from just flooring it and dumping the clutch. It'll get easier to stay disciplined the more you do it.

Originally Posted by cwebster

When everyone at the track sees this brand new shiny 6th Gen ZL1 they all want to try and show their car is better. I'm sorry I couldn't represent the ZL1 better on this trip. For those few that beat me, they didn't beat the ZL1. They beat the green ZL1 driver. They'll see me again, though. Next time I'll get better... each time I'll get faster...

Who can defeat someone who refuses to give up?! You don't loose until you stop trying.

--Cal

You're right again. Everyone wants to see how their car compares to the latest and greatest. Love your attitude. As long as you're having fun and enjoying the car and the experience it brings, nothing else matters. Really appreciate you taking the time to share with us. Like a few have said, it takes a lot of time to post things like you have.

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Nice runs OP for your first time out with your car and with a manual trans. VERY respectable.

Your car definitely has 11's in it once you polish up the launch which will get your 60' times down a lot. That in turn will give you those 11 sec slips.

Play around with the rear tire air pressure a bit and if you do with the DRs make sure to get them warmed up.

And we all appreciate the work it took for you to post everything! That had to take a while!

Thanks again and kudos for having the balls to actually take the car to the track and have fun!

Thanks very much Steve. I feel like mid-11s are close at hand if I can develop the launching and shifting skills and remember to drop tire pressure.

I've always enjoyed writing and I'm kind of picky when choosing my words. I want to be sure that my thoughts come across accurately. I've learned to be very specific with my work in computer software/hardware analysis. I try to be as unambiguous as possible when reviewing something or asking/answering questions.

It does take a little work to put things together the way I want but I think it's worth it with the great feedback I'm getting. If I can accurately document and analyze my driving skills and equipment it should result in improvements at the track. I hope that others like me can gain from it too.

You probably don't get much track time up there in Ohio this time of year, huh? Here's hoping you get some track days soon.

--Cal

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by hrpiii

Thanks for the videos too! Enjoyed them a lot

That's a sweet lookin' ride you got there Mr. "Beefcake". You must have gotten that nickname from the girls around town huh? These cars are chick-magnets but, judging by your physique you probably don't need it for that. I'm not in the physical condition I was in my 20s and 30s but I try to stay healthy going on 62 now. Good health pays of racing on road courses. I found that out at Bondurant racing school. It was surprisingly physically and mentally draining but totally exhilarating.

Seriously though, I checked out your Camaro6 album. That car is beautiful. It must be quick too, based on the specs I see.

I'm glad you got some smiles out of the videos. I'll try to keep 'em coming.

--Cal

[newmoon]

Well it looks like all this talk about the larger rear tires and the new compound being able to hook this car up is out the window. As expected trying to harness 650-lbs of torque on street rubber is an exercise in frustration.

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by LSxWittles

Thanks for sharing and sounds like you had fun. As long as you enjoyed it then times have no relevance. As others have said, more seat time will bring better times. Keep at it.

Btw video 7 of 9, that's a hatch WRX (single turbo boxer motor). Dunno if anyone stated or not.

Thanks for the encouraging note. I do enjoy it thoroughly, win or loose. Some of those guys at the track seem to take it way to seriously but hey, if that's their thing I won't rob them of their grumpy joy. I throw a thumbs up out the window after the run to show there's not hard feelings.

Thank you for the ID on the car in video 7. I'll update my video notes. You don't happen to know what model Nissan that is in videos 4 and 6 do you?

--Cal

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by 2NASSTY

You are welcome. See my comments inside your thread.

Thanks again. Great info!

I'm putting all these tips in my journal for later review and prep.

--Cal

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

OP you are awesome to take your new ZL1 to the track to lay down some numbers. Respect!

As has been said seat time is your friend, especially in a manual. Those auto SS guys crow about thier numbers but they just point and shoot. (Just kidding A8ers)

I'm sure it takes a lot of skill with the auto trans too. It just takes additional skills in the M6.

Originally Posted by Fraxum

You will get better with practice. And seconding low 20 pounds of air in the tires. But no lower. And the quick 2nd gear burnout to get the water off the tires and warm the tires slightly. A big burnout will make street tires greasy and go around the water if you can.

And also seconding that low RPM launch with a progressive clutch slip. The goal is a touch of spin and getting into full throttle ASAP. When you get a good launch you will feel it in the pit of your stomach.

Put the tach on your HUD and shift right around 6200-6300. You don't want to run into that 6,500 rev limiter (6,500 on the ZL1?) As for me even with the HUD a LED shift light is a big help. My 5th gen ZL1 had a shift light, not sure about the CA6 ZL1.

Good info! Thanks!

The formula cars I drove at Bondurant school had the LED rev indicators. It was very helpful. I've been going pretty much by the sound of the motor 'til now.

Originally Posted by Fraxum

One possible problem might be the Goodyears. In my 5th gens I was able to get low 1.9s on the SS Pirellis, but on the 1LE and the ZL1 I rarely got below 2.0. The CA6 SS runflats hook pretty good too. I know the new ZL1 tires are the next gen F1s so they may not be as big of a hinderance.

Also as has been said your ZL1 will need some time between runs. Stacking that supercharger hunk of metal on top of the engine is bound to provoke heat soak. Bye Bye timing.

I'll be looking at rubber soon. Thanks for the info.

Now I'm going to be more aware of what I'm putting the supercharger through.

Originally Posted by Fraxum

I think with some practice and good DA I think you can beat that 11.8 number totally stock. And I think with a good set of DRS you might be able to knock 1/2 a second off that. You have a fast car.

That's very encouraging. I'm certainly going to work toward that end.

Originally Posted by Fraxum

I also like how you appreciated the other cars in the lanes. I feel the same way and met so many cool people in the staging lanes drag racing has become a bit of a social event for me. I'm hooked. As for me I do not worry so much about ETs, but rather enjoy the racing. Sometimes I leave early or late depending on the car in the other lane to put on a nice race for the fans. It is especially fun to beat faster cars who can't get traction or sleepers at the light.

Drag on.

When you think about it, all these people work hard to get their cars in shape for these events and they all love their cars just like we do. It's easy to get along with people who have the same passions and interests. I truly enjoy talking to these folks, whether their driving a Shelby Cobra, a monster dragster, or a family sedan. We all speak the same language - motorsports.

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Oh and about the stock tires. Many ZL1/1LE owners will be switching to Michelins. Keep your eye on the for sale threads. Almost new F1s can be had for about 1/2 the price of new if you are patient.

I will, thanks!

--Cal