[sstoronto]

Originally Posted by MovieGuy

The most serious visibility hindrance is the rear pillars, I absolutely can not see to back out of a diagonal parking spot.

I do not have any real issues, apart from turning, while reversing. But, I just take my time and use the mirrors and the rear camera. However, the camera doesn't really help you, when turning at the same time (C pillar issue).

Anyhow, that's a small annoyance, re. an otherwise amazing car!

[mbavon]

I set my mirrors perfectly and have quite good rear visibility. I guess my last three cars had/have (one is my 2nd car a 2009 Pontiac Vibe: That is a hell of a nice practical vehicle GM made) blind spots and I am used to using side mirrors and the rear view all the time and that gives me a wide view of what's happening around me. I would never switch lanes anyways without knowing exactly what the traffic situation around me is so, the Camaro doesn't feel all that much different than my Nissan Maxima or Pontiac Vibe as far as visibility.

[Number 3]

Everyone keeps saying that vision is ok because you use mirrors, rear camera, side blind zone alert.

When "we" say visibility is bad we mean "direct vision". What you are using is to make it ok is referred to as "indirect vision".

I want my mirrors and backup cameras to be supplemental, NOT primary.

Agree this a matter of taste. But those of us that say vision is bad in the Camaro are referring to "direct vision" not whether or not you can adjust mirrors or use cameras and sensors to achieve the same or similar result.

[n813ca]

what do you mean by setting up the exit option to feel like a king? I can change the exit function?

[MovieGuy]

Originally Posted by sstoronto

I do not have any real issues, apart from turning, while reversing. But, I just take my time and use the mirrors and the rear camera. However, the camera doesn't really help you, when turning at the same time (C pillar issue).

Anyhow, that's a small annoyance, re. an otherwise amazing car!

Those don't help at all for backing out of a diagonal parking place. They don't show if someone is approaching from either side as I back out. They only enhance rear view. It scares me backing out into a street from a diagonal spot because I have no way of knowing if traffic is coming. I only have direct rear view, not side rear view. I try to avoid parking diagonally, when I have no other choice I inch my way out, hoping if someone is coming they will honk.

[NinjaBum]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Everyone keeps saying that vision is ok because you use mirrors, rear camera, side blind zone alert.

When "we" say visibility is bad we mean "direct vision". What you are using is to make it ok is referred to as "indirect vision".

I want my mirrors and backup cameras to be supplemental, NOT primary.

Agree this a matter of taste. But those of us that say vision is bad in the Camaro are referring to "direct vision" not whether or not you can adjust mirrors or use cameras and sensors to achieve the same or similar result.

Agreed.

The vision in this car to the sides and rear is total crap
I've had vettes, mustangs, a GTO, and a bunch of other cars.

Driving this is like sitting inside of a safe compared to any of them.

If it didn't have blind spot assist and the backup camera the visibility would have pushed me towards another car for sure.

People downplaying it are just fanboys who want to think their car is perfect.

[hotlap]

I bought a car with a low roof and high belt line. That has no bearing on my ability to see forward or from the side. Mirrors and system work so well for the rear that I don't even think about it.

Yesterday I was getting on the highway in traffic and maneuvered to cross all the way over to the left lane SS quickly as another car was coming up much faster than traffic in that far left lane. I had zero difficulty knowing he was there at the last second and held in the middle until he passed. I saw him without turning me head (mirrors) and the warning alerted me.

If you like the car and want one, visibility isn't going to be an issue. It's just not traditional. If you don't like the car and have no intention to buy one, this will be on your otherwise short list of reasons.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I bought a car with a low roof and high belt line. That has no bearing on my ability to see forward or from the side. Mirrors and system work so well for the rear that I don't even think about it.

Yesterday I was getting on the highway in traffic and maneuvered to cross all the way over to the left lane SS quickly as another car was coming up much faster than traffic in that far left lane. I had zero difficulty knowing he was there at the last second and held in the middle until he passed. I saw him without turning me head (mirrors) and the warning alerted me.

If you like the car and want one, visibility isn't going to be an issue. It's just not traditional. If you don't like the car and have no intention to buy one, this will be on your otherwise short list of reasons.

Which is great for you.

I've always said it's great if you can adapt to the car. It's just many people who don't love a Camaro first won't think they have to.

But when we discuss the sales, no one is willing to admit that because you can adapt to it, some people feel they shouldn't have to.

Exactly like you said, "if you like the car and want one, visibility isn't going to be an issue". Now think of the people that are just out shopping for an expressive coupe, which the Camaro is.

For me? I LOVE the car and wanted one in the worst way. I could get used to the visibility, although it is a big detractor. But Mrs. Number 3 can't. We've tried. And at this point I want a car she can enjoy as well.

I still need a trunk that my golf clubs fit in though. That's still my deal breaker that makes it a 3rd car like my Sky Redline was. And I don't have space for a 3rd car anymore. :(

[merlin803]

I would be curious to know if the people who think that there is a major visibility issue, to the extent that it would be a reason to not own one, always jumps in any type of car and closely checks out the mirrors and their lines of sight?

The reason I ask is that I have driven many different vehicles and it has NEVER been a consideration. I just quickly adjust the mirrors and I guess drive in a manner to always be aware of who is next to me, even vans that have no side windows or moving trucks, it just has never been an issue, I just drive accordingly.

I was driving my Equinox the other day after owning it for over 2 years and just noticed that if you pull up to the line at a cross section that some traffic signals are not visible without scrunching down to look out the windshield but it has never been something that I noticed or thought about.

I think there are just some people who are very sensitive to having clear lines of sight in every direction and some who are not. I guess that is why some people say it is a deal breaker and others say "what is the big deal?".

In my case, I have never even considered visibility when buying a car, if I like the car then visibility wouldn't be a factor on whether or not I bought it, but that is just me.

[MovieGuy]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Which is great for you.

I've always said it's great if you can adapt to the car. It's just many people who don't love a Camaro first won't think they have to.

But when we discuss the sales, no one is willing to admit that because you can adapt to it, some people feel they shouldn't have to.

Exactly like you said, "if you like the car and want one, visibility isn't going to be an issue". Now think of the people that are just out shopping for an expressive coupe, which the Camaro is.

For me? I LOVE the car and wanted one in the worst way. I could get used to the visibility, although it is a big detractor. But Mrs. Number 3 can't. We've tried. And at this point I want a car she can enjoy as well.

I still need a trunk that my golf clubs fit in though. That's still my deal breaker that makes it a 3rd car like my Sky Redline was. And I don't have space for a 3rd car anymore. :(

In my case I live alone and probably will for the rest of my life. I also have a 1999 Buick Lesebra that was my work car until I retired. Now it is my grocery car and bad weather car. So carrying space is not an issue. Even if I ever did remarry, the Camaro has plenty of room for 2 people.

As far as visibility for driving, even when I am driving my Buick on the highway I am tracking traffic in my main rear view mirror and my side mirrors. I can do the same thing in my Camaro. I do find turning left is a problem with the pillar and the big side mirror, but I had that very same problem in my 2014 Mustang. It really was no better at all. I also wish I could see the hood over my instrument cluster, but I can see the nose of the car, certainly enough that it does not impede any of the vision I need for driving. I would just like to see my hood.

The only thing I hate about the visibility is backing out of a diagonal parking spot as I said before. In my Mustang I was able to look through that little window in the back and see if anybody was coming. But a lot of people put louvers on those windows, with a louver there the Mustang would have the very same problem I have in my Camaro. That was why I never put them on my Mustang even though I really like how they look.

For me the Camaro works. But I do understand what you are saying. I can see where a lot of people would see the visibility problems and say "thanks but no thanks". I drove a 2014 Camaro, then went straight to the Ford dealer and drove a 2014 Mustang. The visibility was the biggest reason I chose to buy the Mustang over the Camaro. Then after all the issues I had with the Mustang over 22 months, I decided I would rather deal with the visibility issues on the Camaro so I could have my car at home instead of the shop at the dealer.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Which is great for you.

I've always said it's great if you can adapt to the car. It's just many people who don't love a Camaro first won't think they have to.

But when we discuss the sales, no one is willing to admit that because you can adapt to it, some people feel they shouldn't have to.

Exactly like you said, "if you like the car and want one, visibility isn't going to be an issue". Now think of the people that are just out shopping for an expressive coupe, which the Camaro is.

For me? I LOVE the car and wanted one in the worst way. I could get used to the visibility, although it is a big detractor. But Mrs. Number 3 can't. We've tried. And at this point I want a car she can enjoy as well.

I still need a trunk that my golf clubs fit in though. That's still my deal breaker that makes it a 3rd car like my Sky Redline was. And I don't have space for a 3rd car anymore. :(

We aren't discussing sales or trunk space. Visibility.

I can see where a very short person could have a problem seeing forward due to the low seating position and the high gauge pod. I'd also think they would have problems with many other cars too. I do not fit very well in a old Prelude or Miata.

I'm 6'-4" and the only adapting I had to do was accepting less light due to the high belt, low roof. Visabilty really, honestly, has never been a factor for me in this car. I have enough head room to fit my fist, knuckles up, between my head and roof and can wear a helmet without changing my normal seat adjustment.

I'm pleased they didn't give us this. Talk about accepting? ...that was my 04 GTO. Great coupe, great performance, bland as hell styling.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by hotlap

We aren't discussing sales or trunk space. Visibility.

I can see where a very short person could have a problem seeing forward due to the low seating position and the high gauge pod. I'd also think they would have problems with many other cars too. I do not fit very well in a old Prelude or Miata.

I'm 6'-4" and the only adapting I had to do was accepting less light due to the high belt, low roof. Visabilty really, honestly, has never been a factor for me in this car. I have enough head room to fit my fist, knuckles up, between my head and roof and can wear a helmet without changing my normal seat adjustment.

I'm pleased they didn't give us this. Talk about accepting? ...that was my 04 GTO. Great coupe, great performance, bland as hell styling.

LOL since when did bringing a couple of other pertinent discussion points into a thread become forbidden.

Everyone seems to think you can't have great styling and great visibility. You can. It's been done over and over.

GM styling, at least when I was there and it was Ed Welburn running the shop, was so in love with the High Belt, Slammed roof look that they handcuffed Cadillac. The Camaro is simply an offshoot of that lust for smaller windows. Does it result in a great look? Sure. Does it hurt interior space and visibility? Absolutely.

If you ever get to see the original rendering of any car or truck program (and I have had that opportunity) GM will show you GIANT wheels and very small DLO.

I'm assuming you don't have a sunroof? In a non sunroof car, I have maybe an inch between my head and the roof. A helmet would be impossible. With a sunroof? Not so much.

Ergonomics is an odd thing. At 6'4" with your description I would guess your height is in your legs. Me? I've been measured and my height in my torso. So seated height, being 6'0" is probably taller than you at 6'4". So don't fall into the trap that everyone on the internet does, "if it works for me, it works for everyone so there should be no discussion". I see that all the time.

Mrs. Number 3? She is 5'2" and if you've ever noticed how badly any car is laid out for a shorter person, it is quite bad. Armrest position is behind the seat. Shifting a manual? LOL it's practically at her hip.

It's different for everyone and if you make a car more restrictive in ergonomics for the sake of styling then you also restrict your audience.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I'm assuming you don't have a sunroof?

Ergonomics is an odd thing. At 6'4" with your description I would guess your height is in your legs.

No and no. 34 inch inseam with 36 inch waist. Perhaps your heavier set or prefer a very vertical seating position.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by hotlap

No and no. 34 inch inseam with 36 inch waist. Perhaps your heavier set or prefer a very vertical seating position.

Nope, as I suggested it's in your legs. Heavier set only matters for steering wheel clearance. A big deal if you have a big belly, but a nope there too.

I have a 30" inseam. If I had proportionate legs to my torso I'd be 6'6". But another good point you make, I don't like a laid back driving position. That's another variant in comfort. But laying your seat back a bit creates more headroom.