[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by Stex

LOL, all these C folks jacked cause of reviews of poor C visibility because of poor visibility. Adjust ur own freaking mirrors. Blind spots are just the start. U cannot see out the side window to see anything higher than a fence post. Stop light, do not be the first or be under 5-10.

LOL, my buddy just bought a 2016 Cad CTS-V. Great Visibility and will out run /perform the current C-6. Only problem for me is 4 doors/ And many more $s.

From C&D: not the mini van drivers, LOL:

The Chevy’s cabin is far more crowded than the Mustang’s, and the form-over-function exterior creates some ergonomic woes inside. Hang an arm on the windowsill and your elbow rises to ear level. The high trunklid and low roofline squeeze the view out the back into a sliver. Wide B-pillars and the rising beltline render the rear quarter-windows useless. When the feds make blind-spot monitoring mandatory in the coming years, you’ll have this car to thank.
http://www.caranddriver.com/photo-ga...omparison-test

LOL: more:

In doubling down on the retro-caricature style of the fifth-generation Camaro, Chevy appears to have designed for the next Transformers movie rather than the buyers who will live with the car. Stylists injected steroids into the bodywork and, almost unbelievably, knocked the roof about an inch lower to make the greenhouse even shorter. The stocky Power Wheels proportions suggest that a full-grown human would have to poke his or her head through the sunroof to drive this thing.

More for "you all drive vans and adjust ur mirrors crowd":

There’s more natural light entering Guantanamo’s solitary cells than the Camaro’s cabin, and yet designers struggled to shield the navigation screen from glare. Their inelegant solution tilts the screen toward the floor, an awkward angle that also reflects the faux-metal bezel surrounding the shifter. The panel gaps of the instrument-cluster hood—directly in the driver’s line of sight—should make Bob Lutz weep.

So just say "ya visibility sucks but I love it." Not, if u think visibility sucks ur this or that...I like the C-6 but visibility (not just blind spots) sucks. Will be waiting for a hardtop and a little more green house. Maybe a long wait or will just have to go to a faster Cad 4-dr and more bucks. Naw, need a 2dr, with hardtop if I could. C-6 with the Vett engine is just hard to beat but yes outward visibility is poor.

Man, this was hard to read...Are you a Cardinals fan? Did you post this after drowning your sorrow in several glasses of Jameson, after that sorry performance by Carson Palmer and Co. ?

BTW...What you quoted from Car and Driver is old news on this website.

[bpang1234]

This is the one time I am thankful for being short...at 5'7" the visibility was still poor but not as bad as many are complaining about. Mostly because my eye-level is likely in the sweet spot for these slits / windows.

I would actually say that the interior is more roomy (for the driver at least) than my 2015 Audi S4 which is a full-on sedan. Also, I can get in and out easier...for some reason Audi designed the door openings for really limber people.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Stex

LOL, all these C folks jacked cause of reviews of poor C visibility because of poor visibility. Adjust ur own freaking mirrors. Blind spots are just the start. U cannot see out the side window to see anything higher than a fence post. Stop light, do not be the first or be under 5-10.

LOL, my buddy just bought a 2016 Cad CTS-V. Great Visibility and will out run /perform the current C-6. Only problem for me is 4 doors/ And many more $s.

From C&D: not the mini van drivers, LOL:

The Chevy’s cabin is far more crowded than the Mustang’s, and the form-over-function exterior creates some ergonomic woes inside. Hang an arm on the windowsill and your elbow rises to ear level. The high trunklid and low roofline squeeze the view out the back into a sliver. Wide B-pillars and the rising beltline render the rear quarter-windows useless. When the feds make blind-spot monitoring mandatory in the coming years, you’ll have this car to thank.
http://www.caranddriver.com/photo-ga...omparison-test

LOL: more:

In doubling down on the retro-caricature style of the fifth-generation Camaro, Chevy appears to have designed for the next Transformers movie rather than the buyers who will live with the car. Stylists injected steroids into the bodywork and, almost unbelievably, knocked the roof about an inch lower to make the greenhouse even shorter. The stocky Power Wheels proportions suggest that a full-grown human would have to poke his or her head through the sunroof to drive this thing.

More for "you all drive vans and adjust ur mirrors crowd":

There’s more natural light entering Guantanamo’s solitary cells than the Camaro’s cabin, and yet designers struggled to shield the navigation screen from glare. Their inelegant solution tilts the screen toward the floor, an awkward angle that also reflects the faux-metal bezel surrounding the shifter. The panel gaps of the instrument-cluster hood—directly in the driver’s line of sight—should make Bob Lutz weep.

So just say "ya visibility sucks but I love it." Not, if u think visibility sucks ur this or that...I like the C-6 but visibility (not just blind spots) sucks. Will be waiting for a hardtop and a little more green house. Maybe a long wait or will just have to go to a faster Cad 4-dr and more bucks. Naw, need a 2dr, with hardtop if I could. C-6 with the Vett engine is just hard to beat but yes outward visibility is poor.

Sorry...You can add all the "LOL"s you want....visibility is not bad in this car. I'll preach that till I die. It's got a slammed roof...so do all sports cars. That impacts things. It also reminds you what you're driving. You get used to it and adjust your driving style. If you're creeping up on the white line under a stop light and can't see it turn green, it's cause you're a bad driver, not because visibility is awful.

Adjust your mirrors: blind spots go away. Pay attention to how you're driving, and visibility is fine. If any of us here felt so compromised in vision while driving, we'd have all bought something else. But we don't...now do we?

By the way...have you owned one? Your commentary suggests...no.

[LesBaer]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You are making my point. Have you seen a backup camera work well when it's raining or snowy? I have and it's about worthless.

No, I wasn't pulled too far ahead to see the stop light. But with my head a 1/4" from the headliner, and stopping normally, I can't see the stop light without dipping my head. Sure shorter folks will not have this problem. But I'm only 6' tall.

And, no, the tiny porthole of a side window makes a head check VERY difficult if not impossible to do so quickly. And blind spot detection? LOL, I have that on my car now.

So by your own statements, if you need sensors and cameras to drive your car safely, you have just made the case that the visibility is poor.

Thank you!

Oh, and no phobia of technology at all. I've used it and fully understand what it does AND it's limitations. But I don't like to HAVE to use it in order to operate a motor vehicle.

Again, I love that you guys love this car so much you are willing to make the trade off for styling. But every time we have this discussion, folks start chiming in with back up camera, lane departure warning, blind spot alert. All nice technologies. But just admit the visibility is poor. No one can, with a straight face, say it isn't bad. You just don't find it to be a problem.

No, I'm definitely not making your point. You've come to a website dedicated to the fans and owners of the car to rant about something we all know, that's been beaten to death. The car is already built. Everyone here is has gotten past this or they wouldn't be here. You still have a problem with it and I can't make that point for you.

It's a fact that the car doesn't have the best visibility in its class. Everyone can see that it favors styling over trying to be everything for everyone. This is a driver's car, not a hatch back with wheel hop and the exhaust note of a Camry. The car is not for everyone. Just like a C7 would be difficult to manage for someone morbidly obese, certain people are going to find things more challenging with the Camaro.

Either this is a problem for you or it isn't. For me at 5'11" 200lbs, I have ZERO problems with feeling "squeezed into a coffin" or seeing out of the car. I actually like the tighter feeling as it makes it feel more like a sports car than a performance sedan. Adjusting your mirrors is a given. Do that, and then the tech handles the rest - that's why it's there. I have a backup camera now and I only have to wipe it off with my finger in the winter when the car is caked in shit and overdue for a wash. It works fine in the rain - but I admit that I haven't tried the Camaro's camera in the rain. Assuming it's the same, it won't be a problem for me. I definitely did not buy this car for its utility and I don't plan on driving it in the rain if I can help it. As long as the camera lens and your blind spot sensors are wiped clean, they should work fine. If they don't, that's a technical problem and I have no problem with anyone bitching about something like that.

I'm not a Chevy fanboy or a GM apologist either. If the visibility is such a problem for you, don't buy it and move on to something that suits you better.

[Bassment]

I was expecting such bad visibility, from what everyone on here has been saying. I've had my car 2 days and the visibility is awesome and it's incredibly easy to drive. The back-up camera and the sensors make the Camaro easier to drive than any sedan, hatchback or SUV I've driven.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Bassment

I was expecting such bad visibility, from what everyone on here has been saying. I've had my car 2 days and the visibility is awesome and it's incredibly easy to drive. The back-up camera and the sensors make the Camaro easier to drive than any sedan, hatchback or SUV I've driven.

Glad to hear it. These were my impressions, as well.

I think...somehow...two "sides" have formed in this thread and both are becoming very exaggerated.

[pete1077]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Sorry...You can add all the "LOL"s you want....visibility is not bad in this car. I'll preach that till I die. It's got a slammed roof...so do all sports cars. That impacts things. It also reminds you what you're driving. You get used to it and adjust your driving style. If you're creeping up on the white line under a stop light and can't see it turn green, it's cause you're a bad driver, not because visibility is awful.

Adjust your mirrors: blind spots go away. Pay attention to how you're driving, and visibility is fine. If any of us here felt so compromised in vision while driving, we'd have all bought something else. But we don't...now do we?

By the way...have you owned one? Your commentary suggests...no.

I agree. I don't have a 2016 Camaro yet but I did test drive it. While I thought the visibility was bad. I also acknowledge I was only driving it for a 15 minutes test drive and wasn't yet used to the car. I'm pretty sure its something you get used to after awhile. I remember when I had my 4th generation you couldn't see any part of the front of the car. Did it bother me? Sure, for a few weeks. Then I got acclimated with the car and learned its dimensions and drove it appropriately. That car also didn't have any of the safety features new cars have. If visibility was really was so bad, the 5th generation wouldn't have sold so well.

[Mike502]

If you want to wear a helmet and go to the track don't order a sun roof. With the blind spot mirrors and back up camera visablility is not a problem. The car runs much faster and handles better then the 13 Boss 302 that I sold.

[mjk3888]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Some of you are coming around.

Just admit that you are willing to trade off visibility in order to have a more aggressive look. I poke because people actually a) claim visibility is great and/or b) claim all you have to do is adjust your mirrors and use technology.

Oh and to start another poop storm.......you can't claim the Mustang is a Gran Touring car and the Camaro is a Sports Car. Using that as an excuse as to why the Mustang has better visibility is...................... They are both in the same class. The Corvette IS a Sports Car. The Camaro is not in the same class as the Corvette regardless of performance similarities.

Sales will tell the story. My only worry is that people will not buy the Camaro because it isn't a great coupe.

NOTE THE FOLLOWING: If you are on this website and reading this, performance more than likely outweighs visibility, trunk space and rear seat room. All attributes of comparing a cars usefulness. And 3 areas where the Mustang is measurably better than the Camaro. But, again, if you are on this website and reading this, those are probably the 3 things at the bottom of your list. Just be able to admit that people who are NOT on this website and don't care about this website or even care that the car is a 6th Generation of an iconic brand and are looking for a great coupe are using those attributes to judge and compare the cars. Most of the rest of the car buying public are NOT......LIKE......US

AMEN!!!

To any of you who can't read the last part of his post and acknowledge that he is right. You are a camaro fan boy who can't see that this is an issue. No one is saying its undrivable, but it can definitely be improved.

IMO Chevrolet was stupid for using Gen 5 owners at car meets as their focus group! Of course they will say that visibility isn't an issue and that the style was the most important thing to them, because if visibility was an issue they would have bought a different car!

I like the Gen 6 a lot and will buy one soon, hopefully a yet to be released performance model. However, I will admit that leading up to the gen 6 reveal I was looking for a slightly less retro more modern sleek design. I wasn't really excited about the looks of the gen 6 when it was introduced it looked like a lazy re hash of the 5th gen even though it was a completly new car. Even so I knew to wait for performance figures because I think GM usually excels in its class when it comes to overall performance. I will buy a new camaro and live with the downfalls, but I can only imagine what could have been if they built a car that was considered as universally appealing as the Mustang is and with slightly improved ergonomics.

[90503]

Originally Posted by mjk3888

AMEN!!!

To any of you who can't read the last part of his post and acknowledge that he is right. You are a camaro fan boy who can't see that this is an issue. No one is saying its undrivable, but it can definitely be improved.

IMO Chevrolet was stupid for using Gen 5 owners at car meets as their focus group! Of course they will say that visibility isn't an issue and that the style was the most important thing to them, because if visibility was an issue they bought a different car!

I like the Gen 6 a lot and will buy one soon, hopefully a yet to be released performance model. However, I will admit that leading up to the gen 6 reveal I was looking for a slightly less retro more modern sleek design. I wasn't really excited about the looks of the gen 6 when it was introduced it looked like a lazy re hash of the 5th gen even though it was a completly new car. Even so I knew to wait for performance figures because I think GM usually excels in its class when it comes to overall performance. I will buy a new camaro and live with the downfalls, but I can only imagine what could have been if they built a car that was considered as universally appealing as the Mustang is and with slightly improved ergonomics.

If the last part of your idol Number 3's post is so right-on, why hasn't the Dodge Challenger outsold the Camaro for all these years?

The Three things that all customers look for, according to him and him only, to make a "Great" coupe have always been available from the Challenger.

[2cnd chance]

Sporty cars will always be a compromise. You get the look and performance minus the utility.

[mjk3888]

Originally Posted by 90503

If the last part of your idol Number 3's post is so right-on, why hasn't the Dodge Challenger outsold the Camaro for all these years?

The Three things that all customers look for, according to him and him only, to make a "Great" coupe have always been available from the Challenger.

Might want to be careful there. Dodge didn't have a competitor to the Mustang and Camaro until 2008 after over 30 years of being out of the class. Since then they have had steady sales increases every year. In time they might be selling just as much. I have seen multiple threads here on a CAMARO forum of guys ditching their 6th gen desires to pick up Challengers!

You don't think that average joes weighing all the options on the Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang don't think that visibility is at least something to consider?

Removing sales projections from the equation. The Challenger to me is the most Grand Touring Car of the bunch. Better interior space and trunk space and lots of power. Frankly I think a lot of people here will never push the car's handling limits far enough to even notice that it handles better than a Challenger. Frankly if I wasn't looking for a car to be a Daily Driver / Track Day Toy. I would buy a challenger or a mustang. I think they both look great and some would argue they are better street cars.

Visibility isn't the only thing that makes a car, but its a huge factor. You guys fight this point like having more visibility is a bad thing! It's the designers jobs to find a design that maintains the camaro's appeal while providing better visibility. I think they sort of dropped the ball here.

If you look at a 5th gen compared to the early camaros you can see that they can maintain the look by slightly lowering the "belt line" of the car also making for slightly larger windows with better visibility. I'm sure that this is possible if mustangs are able to get away with it.

[mjk3888]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Sporty cars will always be a compromise. You get the look and performance minus the utility.

True, but I think there is a difference between necessary compromises and unnecessary compromises. Trunk space and interior room are expected to an extent, but visibility doesn't have to be compromised. It was only compromised for "design purposes" not necessity.

[90503]

The "fighting" over a visibility point only comes from some who want to throw grenades at a ship that has already sailed.

Their big ideas for the 6thGen went unheeded so now all they have left are pointless arguments requiring that what they thought best must be acknowledged by current and potential buyers, that the Camaro is not a great car, they have bought a compromised, inferior design.

Anyone who is ok with the design, visibility, etc., is dismissed as being either unenlightened, a "fan-boy" or outright lying about their preferences and lack of admission that the car and the visiblilty isn't as good as they would have built it.

No design or prototype has ever been seen of a 6thGen that satisfies the all-knowing's features that would have made it a "great car"....

And it's not just their opinion on what makes a "great car", it's that no-one acknowledges their un-used delicate genius as superior to their's.