08-25-2015, 07:10 PM | #43 | ||||
Hail to the King baby!
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This is the same as alllllll the people that claim GM needs a Chevelle in the showroom too. You can't have same/similar vehicles in the same showroom that ruin the business case for cars sitting 10 feet away. Sorry to break it to you guys, but $26,900 is the entry level price point. It may go down with the 2.0T a grand or so but you'll have a hard time finding a 330 HP V6 sport coupe for that money. A 348 HP Genesis coupe will run you about the same amount. There is no room in the Chevy showroom for another sport coupe for only a few thousand less. Keep in mind, a base Malibu runs you $22,465 with a 2.5L NA 200 HP engine, FWD.
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08-26-2015, 09:24 AM | #44 |
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Yes I think GM needs something in the hot hatch segment. Everyone I have talked to that has an ST or driven one, Focus or Fiesta says that they are incredibly fun cars to drive.
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08-26-2015, 11:08 AM | #45 | |
Dances With Mustangs
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I'm honestly finding it astonishing how much the Camaro forums have changed the last 6 years. It used to be so positive and full of energy, excitement and enthusiasm. People use to be eager to talk about the future and "what if". Now it seems rather... grim and negative for the most part. It seems like there's much more "no", "you can't do that", "that can't be done" etc. Why are so many on defense? If continually raising the price of the entry-level Camaro until it's out of range of new customers (even though the value for the money is there) is their strategy for future growth and survival...they're in trouble. Those who can afford it will still buy, but how many are they going to buy in the next 5-10 years? What if Ford decides to reinvent the pony car magic that their original Mustang created in 1964? They thought of it first before; they can think of it first again. In my opinion it's worth taking a serious look at. Again...I'm not saying spend a billion dollars, go into production and then hope they sell. All I'm saying is think beyond the moment and the next quarterly report, and come up with a concept car to see IF this is a viable strategy. And make it a hot looking concept like the original 5th gen Camaro; not another me too version of what everybody else is doing.
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08-26-2015, 11:23 AM | #46 | |
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http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobile...tml/?a=viewall You have to move up to $24k starting price to get into the next fastest bracket, for example the VW GTI. But you can easily load it to $29k by adding things things the 2LT has standard. I think that "couple of thousand" difference is what Number 3 was talking about. The math just won't work to design a completely new car/chassis for that kind of price. Much easier to justify taking a Cruze and dropping a 250hp 2.0T in it. And just to put some numbers behind small 2 dr RWD sport coupes: And apparently some people think that is sales success too. Guess I've been looking at Mustang/Camaro/Challenger/Charger sales too much.
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08-27-2015, 12:06 PM | #47 |
Dances With Mustangs
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Well...obviously there just isn't much interest in thinking/discussing anything beyond the moment. And I'm really not sure why, even though I've repeatedly said PONY CAR I keep seeing "I'm going to shoot you down" posts that talk about 2-seater sports cars or just about everything else except a pony car. A PONY CAR is NOT a sports car; it has 4 seats not 2. It's bigger than a small hatchback or econo-bug. American pony cars did NOT look like something from overseas; they were clearly and distinctly American designs; they did not follow a trend, they SET A TREND. The 5th gen Camaro styling was directly inspired by the pony car Camaros of the late 1960's. It was a runaway smash hit sales success.
Maybe the reason why people are having a hard time trying to find something else like what I'm advocating (so they can use that to point out how wrong I am to even consider it!) is because there ISN'T anything else out there right now like what I'm advocating. The closest perhaps would be the Mazda 3 which just happens to be rated the top in its segment. And it's priced from about $17k-$24k; exactly the price points I'm advocating for a reborn pony car. But either nobody here gets it, wants to get it, or even cares...none of which makes for any kind of enjoyable conversation. Oh well...thank you to those who took the time to post what you did, and thanks to the rest who bothered to read this thread!
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08-27-2015, 12:26 PM | #48 | |
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btw I enjoyed the conversation and thought it was worth discussing
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08-27-2015, 01:10 PM | #49 | |
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The manufacturers didn't show much interest in American Muscle Pony Cars...their design, appeal, etc....Making them to satisfy the appetites of those of us who remember the 60s and 70s was almost a nuisance and something that couldn't be over with too soon....The 6thGen has been described as non-retro...that is over...the Camaro has moved on to it's own entity....(and that does not include an inexpensive entry-level model).... So, I here you Doc, but I think we got our 5thGen day-in-the-sun and that will be it. The industry has made it's few dollars from us, but that is now over. |
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08-27-2015, 01:21 PM | #50 | |
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a hot hatch car tho, that they should get on |
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08-27-2015, 01:54 PM | #51 |
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If GM would ask me what I'd like in an intro, sporty, two-door coupe I'd say something with a 20 to 25 intro price, RWD (non-negotiable), excellent chassis, a body that is not too long or too short, or too low or too tall, and definitely something that is wide enough to carry 3 adults in the backseat for short trips. Exterior design wise nothing boring, or nothing trendy, basically a design that is both handsome and classic. Power wise I want to see a 4 as standard and a 6 for performance (and a TTV6 for a high-performance model). And while I wouldn't expect a V8 to be offered I would expect the engine bay be able to accept a V8 for the hot rodders that aren't going anywhere.
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08-27-2015, 04:43 PM | #52 |
They should just make a Cruze or Malibu coupe with a slightly detuned version of the I4T in the ATS 2.0 and base Camaro.
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08-27-2015, 04:47 PM | #53 |
KaBoom1701
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08-27-2015, 06:30 PM | #54 |
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Would be great to see a Cruze coupe. But if they put the 2.0T in it it can't be detuned or it would get slaughtered by the Focus ST. The reality is that there won't be another small couple under the Camaro and if by some miracle that happened it definitely won't be rwd. Small sized two door coupes have fallen out of favor. Even in the hot hatch realm only VW still offers a two door. The best that can realistically be hoped for would be a Cruze SS sedan or maybe 5 door. Although the pics I've seen of the possible 5 door is not really a looker. But a Cruze SS with the 2.0T at its current 270hp could be a nice, sporty little hot rod that could be tuned into the 300+hp range and and still be really well optioned out in the low to mid 20k range. For some reason GM has completely surrendered that market to Ford and the imports. That Cruze with that engine could be the gateway drug to the Camaro you're looking for.
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08-28-2015, 11:27 AM | #55 |
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Could it be that the FR's & BRZ's aren't selling because there is Zero Marketing from either Toyota or Suburu?
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08-28-2015, 02:14 PM | #56 |
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