[Grabber]

Originally Posted by radz28

It will be interesting to see how well ZL1 fares when it comes to track time and warranty claims. It sounds like they're going to be quite deliberate in documentatio for ZL1, given the comments in the dealer guides about tire temperatures, when to change gear oil, etc. As much advertising they are doing about the track-readiness of ZL1, and how even ZR1 has the same warranty as a Spark, I can't help but think they're going to stand behind it. What is concerning to me, regarding the Supervisor, is that mods' aside (I could completely understand why they are doing that), to lower the warranty just for buying the key option just screams foul to me. They praise that Coyote to be a race motor and this-and-that, but to automatically reduce the warranty (which - sounds to be less than ZL1 will be... unconfirmed though...) arbitrarily, just stinks. If you can't validate your motor, on your own tune, to the same standard as your regular tune, maybe the car's not as rugged as they'd like you to believe... That's a whole lot of rev'n for 50K miles... (obviously - no one is racing their car for 50K miles, lol).

Warranty is a tough deal. Ford's played their card - let's see what GM does...



It can be difficult to try to argue an apples-to-apples comparison like you've pointed out. However, there weren't too many cries when SS was compared to the GT500... I guess that's the nature of things. Additionally - when Ford, the fanboys, and press all scream about the Boss it's hard not to put it in the cross hairs. That's a better car than the GT500 in most performance considerations, so I think it's natural to make comparisons. Everyone knows that's what's going to happen in the media anyways. I'm sure the GT500 will be in the mix, too, however, you KNOW there's going to be some Boss talk in there.



What is this about the tires I read about. It's my understanding that was a 100% spec' production-intent ZL1, except telemetry, and safety equipment (I already posted about headliner and trim removal). I'm curious where you think the Cup Tires are going on ZL1, because GM's said nothing about Cup Tires at all. Perhaps you can validate your claims with some images from those videos.

So, you truly believe a Roll Cage that is designed to make the vehicle as a whole more rigid will not affect times? Anything that stiffens the vehicle is an improvement on the chassis and suspension and in turn the vehicle is able to maneuver better.

Here is the video I was speaking of when GM changed tires from a Goodyear F1 (Looked like it to me) to a more race style tire. Looks like a Toyo R888 to me.



If you watch any of the videos released, you will see how there is very minimal body roll. This is a result of the roll cage.

Again, my 03 Cobra was a full blow Road Race car that was hot lapped all the time @ the Autobahn road course by the previous owner. It had everything except a chute, and of course that is sarcasm, just saying.

Full 6 Point Roll cage, at least 3-4 Welded Strut Tower bars on the k-member, in the trunk, etc. Full Bilstein racing suspension, IRS Diff cooler, Big brakes, all bushings replaced, Full Kenny Brown Extreme Matrix system, subframes, brake cooling vents, etc.

I've been in numerous cars with and without cages, and there is an incredible difference in rigidity between them. A Steel Cage isn't going to be a safety feature when you flip the car and crack your skull on it. It stiffens the vehicle, plain and simple.

Again, I never said the Red GT500 was factual, just posted some information about what was said/rumored. Ford will release the numbers when they feel it is the right time.

If you look at all of the other faster cars that ran @ the ring, did they all have Cages for Safety? IIRC, not many of them had cages, including the CTS-V.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Grabber

So, you truly believe a Roll Cage that is designed to make the vehicle as a whole more rigid will not affect times? Anything that stiffens the vehicle is an improvement on the chassis and suspension and in turn the vehicle is able to maneuver better.

Here is the video I was speaking of when GM changed tires from a Goodyear F1 (Looked like it to me) to a more race style tire. Looks like a Toyo R888 to me.



If you watch any of the videos released, you will see how there is very minimal body roll. This is a result of the roll cage.

Again, my 03 Cobra was a full blow Road Race car that was hot lapped all the time @ the Autobahn road course by the previous owner. It had everything except a chute, and of course that is sarcasm, just saying.

Full 6 Point Roll cage, at least 3-4 Welded Strut Tower bars on the k-member, in the trunk, etc. Full Bilstein racing suspension, IRS Diff cooler, Big brakes, all bushings replaced, Full Kenny Brown Extreme Matrix system, subframes, brake cooling vents, etc.

I've been in numerous cars with and without cages, and there is an incredible difference in rigidity between them. A Steel Cage isn't going to be a safety feature when you flip the car and crack your skull on it. It stiffens the vehicle, plain and simple.

Again, I never said the Red GT500 was factual, just posted some information about what was said/rumored. Ford will release the numbers when they feel it is the right time.

If you look at all of the other faster cars that ran @ the ring, did they all have Cages for Safety? IIRC, not many of them had cages, including the CTS-V.

What I'm saying is that while roll cages do add stiffness in cars without, in this case, it's my understanding, through high-quality Sponsors in this Community that offer everything this side of SFCs (if you think about it, if they thought they were necessary, don't you think they would offer them?...), that they are not necessry. Given a video Pfadt put out of strut tower movement, and how little there was, it also gives me confidence in the business decisions (regarding this matter) that they've made to now. It's my opinion that the roll cage added little stiffness because ZETA II's chassis is already particularly stiff.

I'm not questioning your experience, however, have you been in a 5th Gen with and without a cage? If not, you accertions (sp?) aren't really objective. While I agree that cages can and do add strength, that's directly related to the stiffness of the chassis prior. If it's a stiff chassis, it won't benefit as much, which is what I'm suggesting.

I fail to understand what point, then, you had in pointing to rumored information. The only arguement in this thread that I recognize is that ZL1 is not yet in production, however, it is a REAL car with a REAL, verified time. It's not reasonable to post rumored information since there's nothing to back it up. If it's faster, then it's faster. Why argue the facts of times we have now for ZL1 for non-verified times for a non-existant car?

Here are four images of the Toyos you see (and NO, they are NOT Toyos). It's your turn to prove your point:

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Funny you use the Corvette as the reference, as it rides on leaf springs, equally "outdated" as the live rear axle wouldn't you agree?

LOL, do you understand the concept of marketing a product? The long post earlier in this thread explained pretty well why all car companies would want to post up a 'Ring time.

Hmmmm....I believe the last time Ford put out a high performance Mustang before a major platform change we got the Terminator Cobras. Doing the same on the eve of another chassis change seems to be par for the course at Ford. Not sure why you find it so hard to believe?

Yeah of course the C6 Corvette has some outdated parts too afterall it was released the EXACT same year as the current generation Mustang in 2005 with both cars having gone through numerous revisions. I'm compairing it because I dont see it running as fast as a ZR-1 Corvette would thats why but we will see. If Ford can muster up some performance tech we will find out once we have the numbers. The fact that the Mustang is lighter in weight helps it out alot already. The current Mustang GT500 is in many peoples opinions one of the slowest 500hp cars out there due to the fact it cant hook its tires up and put power to the rear wheels. Bigger tires will help it hook better but it will need more tech like the ZL1 has to help it hook better. I'm not trying to hate on the Shelby GT500 but it seems like almost every video where they put the GT500 against a similar rated car the other car seems to always win. In fact I havent seen one video where a factory powered car that had the same power it beat. The CTS-V videos I saw one where the CTS-V won and I saw another comparison between the two where they were almost even.