[keep_hope_alive]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

Your situation is an outlier though. Most people don't even put 20K miles on their normal commuter car per year. 20K to 30K miles on a premium fuel V8 Camaro is a lot of miles and a lot of $$$. Sound like you can handle it so that's awesome! It's just not normal, especially for a Camaro.


You have the option of charging your EV at home though, so do you absolutely need all of your clients to have a charging station?



For the sporty stuff, I'd argue that its all encompassing. Not just power/acceleration but handling, and braking too. The Plaid S is just a one trick pony on the acceleration front. Otherwise its terrible as a sporty/sports car.



I'm sure most people will say that the 1LE package makes a SS Camaro more sporty. But the 1LE package has no power upgrades over a normal SS.

Excellent points, I totally agree. My case is unique.

Since all of the miles I drive for work are reimbursed at $.58/mile, I basically recoup the cost of driving the car. My 2014 Accord Sport was $22.5k in 2014 and over the 210k miles I've driven, most being work related, I've collected around $60k in mileage reimbursements. That paid for the car, the fuel, and all maintenance... plus a bit. I'm well aware that daily driving the Camaro won't result in that kind (if any) profit, but I'll come close to breaking even (my recent raise also covers the monthly cost anyway), so I'm in a good place.

I can certainly charge my car at home, which is why I just need an EV that can do a round trip. ~300 miles of range would take care of most of my daily trips (either round-trip or one-way with an overnight). I expect to drive this Camaro to Tulsa, OK (600 mi), Omaha, NE (310 mi), Grand Rapids, MI (310 mi), St Louis (270 mi), an all throughout Illinois and Iowa on a fairly regular basis. My Accord has treated me well, averaging 35+ mpg on the highway and 30 mpg combined over it's life. It's still doing that today with 10k mile averages holding at 30mpg. I know things are about to be different... they'll sound a lot better. All that is to say that I will need destinations to have charging available if I'm to rely solely on EV. Or, I can rent an ICE vehicle for those work trips and forego the reimbursements.

I agree that handling is what should classify as "sporty". Seems like everyone these days has a "S" or "Sport" or "SE" model that just has extra plastic stuff on the outside. And it seems that every EV has crazy acceleration. I'm not buying the SS Camaro for the 0-60 times. I'm buying a complete package, a honed machine capable of sustained laps on a track - something the aforementioned "sport" models wouldn't be capable of doing. Even if I don't intend to "track" the car on a frequent basis, I know it's an actual "sports car". I hope to attend Camaro Fests and take part in track days, something I know my 2014 Accord Sport or 2019 Camry SE would not tolerate.

Who knows, maybe the EV Camaro will look like the EV Mustang (hopefully not). Maybe Dodge will do something batshit crazy with an EV Challenger that lets Chevy live in the middle. Maybe a future 2-door EV AWD Camaro will shred the current lap times being put down at Camaro Cross. Maybe we get a Chevy Bolt with a body kit. I'm just glad I had the sense to order what I did when I did.

[Casper the friendly G]

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/t...-b2122903.html

[Casper the friendly G]

Don't fall for the Elec-Trick fad...its a joke and not ready for prime time.


https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/e...s-power-study/

[Ikelove]

Hell no. Got no interest in any electric vehicle.

[Adios]

No No No No No.
Homie don't do battery cars...

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive

Excellent points, I totally agree. My case is unique.

Since all of the miles I drive for work are reimbursed at $.58/mile, I basically recoup the cost of driving the car. My 2014 Accord Sport was $22.5k in 2014 and over the 210k miles I've driven, most being work related, I've collected around $60k in mileage reimbursements. That paid for the car, the fuel, and all maintenance... plus a bit. I'm well aware that daily driving the Camaro won't result in that kind (if any) profit, but I'll come close to breaking even (my recent raise also covers the monthly cost anyway), so I'm in a good place.

I can certainly charge my car at home, which is why I just need an EV that can do a round trip. ~300 miles of range would take care of most of my daily trips (either round-trip or one-way with an overnight). I expect to drive this Camaro to Tulsa, OK (600 mi), Omaha, NE (310 mi), Grand Rapids, MI (310 mi), St Louis (270 mi), an all throughout Illinois and Iowa on a fairly regular basis. My Accord has treated me well, averaging 35+ mpg on the highway and 30 mpg combined over it's life. It's still doing that today with 10k mile averages holding at 30mpg. I know things are about to be different... they'll sound a lot better. All that is to say that I will need destinations to have charging available if I'm to rely solely on EV. Or, I can rent an ICE vehicle for those work trips and forego the reimbursements.

I agree that handling is what should classify as "sporty". Seems like everyone these days has a "S" or "Sport" or "SE" model that just has extra plastic stuff on the outside. And it seems that every EV has crazy acceleration. I'm not buying the SS Camaro for the 0-60 times. I'm buying a complete package, a honed machine capable of sustained laps on a track - something the aforementioned "sport" models wouldn't be capable of doing. Even if I don't intend to "track" the car on a frequent basis, I know it's an actual "sports car". I hope to attend Camaro Fests and take part in track days, something I know my 2014 Accord Sport or 2019 Camry SE would not tolerate.

Who knows, maybe the EV Camaro will look like the EV Mustang (hopefully not). Maybe Dodge will do something batshit crazy with an EV Challenger that lets Chevy live in the middle. Maybe a future 2-door EV AWD Camaro will shred the current lap times being put down at Camaro Cross. Maybe we get a Chevy Bolt with a body kit. I'm just glad I had the sense to order what I did when I did.

In your driving situation an EV would be hard to beat from financial perspective. 300 miles of range in my Tesla Model 3 costs about $6 in electricity when charging from home. If you are able to get reimbursed $174 for every 300 miles you drive, you are netting around $168. Even if you assume you will have to charge on the road at a Supercharger at a higher cost it is usually .15 - .25 cents per KWh, still much less than gas. It will take 30 minutes or so but doable.

Now I am not saying an EV will deliver the same smiles per mile as the Camaro but the TCO is hard to beat. For this reason we have a Tesla for daily driving duty and the Camaro ZL1 is the fun car. By the way, the Tesla Model 3 is a nimble car. The low CG with the battery and instant makes this car feel a lot more nimble than my ZL1. It is easy to chuck around. The single motor model we have actually feels like it has mid-engine handling dynamics since only has the single drive unit over the rear axle. That said, if you desire the vibration, sound and driving engagement you can only get from a V8 Camaro an EV will never really satisfy you. They are super quick without the driving engagement or drama and you eventually realize that the drama is a large part of what makes the driving experience great.

It will be interesting what GM and others will try to do to satisfy the enthusiasts.

[keep_hope_alive]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

In your driving situation an EV would be hard to beat from financial perspective. 300 miles of range in my Tesla Model 3 costs about $6 in electricity when charging from home. If you are able to get reimbursed $174 for every 300 miles you drive, you are netting around $168. Even if you assume you will have to charge on the road at a Supercharger at a higher cost it is usually .15 - .25 cents per KWh, still much less than gas. It will take 30 minutes or so but doable.

Now I am not saying an EV will deliver the same smiles per mile as the Camaro but the TCO is hard to beat. For this reason we have a Tesla for daily driving duty and the Camaro ZL1 is the fun car. By the way, the Tesla Model 3 is a nimble car. The low CG with the battery and instant makes this car feel a lot more nimble than my ZL1. It is easy to chuck around. The single motor model we have actually feels like it has mid-engine handling dynamics since only has the single drive unit over the rear axle. That said, if you desire the vibration, sound and driving engagement you can only get from a V8 Camaro an EV will never really satisfy you. They are super quick without the driving engagement or drama and you eventually realize that the drama is a large part of what makes the driving experience great.

It will be interesting what GM and others will try to do to satisfy the enthusiasts.

That's great info. I agree that 300 miles of range (when driven appropriately) is what gets me interested. While the Camaro will be an emotional experience, I do see the practicality of EV with adequate range. And a Tesla is most likely where I'd go. Thanks for your personal experience!

I just priced a Long-Range Model 3 and it's sitting at $65k with options but 358 miles of range. The standard model without options is $45k. Their website estimates $12k of savings over 6 years @ 20k mi./year compared to the mileage of my Accord (30mpg). That jumps to $16k savings over 6 years when compared to the Camaro (25mpg). So after 6 years the cost breaks even (assuming long-range model). The next assessment would be resale value after 6 years and then the TCO after another 6 years.

[ZED SLED]

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive

That's great info. I agree that 300 miles of range (when driven appropriately) is what gets me interested. While the Camaro will be an emotional experience, I do see the practicality of EV with adequate range. And a Tesla is most likely where I'd go. Thanks for your personal experience!

I just priced a Long-Range Model 3 and it's sitting at $65k with options but 358 miles of range. The standard model without options is $45k. Their website estimates $12k of savings over 6 years @ 20k mi./year compared to the mileage of my Accord (30mpg). That jumps to $16k savings over 6 years when compared to the Camaro (25mpg). So after 6 years the cost breaks even (assuming long-range model). The next assessment would be resale value after 6 years and then the TCO after another 6 years.

So, fortunately I purchased mine in 2019 before the all the craziness and they still had a $3750 tax credit. I have a SR+ model that cost $36,250 back then. The resale has been very good as a result of strong demand and inflation. The car at 3 years and 35,000 miles is still worth close to $40k. Obviously prices have increased but the value is there and folks are waiting 6-10 months to get them. So far so good on reliability.

Also factor in that you don't require oil changes or any other fluid changes. The only thing I have done is rotate the tires and top off the washer fluid. The batteries and drive units have an 8 year 120k mile warranty.

By the way, I wish GM would adopt the same direct ordering process that Telsa has implemented. It is fantastic. Build your car online, leave your $250 order fee and wait for a VIN to be assigned. You do all the paperwork online and take delivery of the car in about 15-20 minutes. I bought two of them and I still find it shocking how smooth it is compared to the traditional dealership experience.

As for service, I had a couple of scratches on the rocker panels when they lowered the car off the transported. I opened a service ticket via the Tesla app, they order the parts and a service tech showed up in my driveway a couple days later and installed them in my garage. My mind was blown after experiencing the traditional service model for the past 35 years.

[keep_hope_alive]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

So, fortunately I purchased mine in 2019 before the all the craziness and they still had a $3750 tax credit. I have a SR+ model that cost $36,250 back then. The resale has been very good as a result of strong demand and inflation. The car at 3 years and 35,000 miles is still worth close to $40k. Obviously prices have increased but the value is there and folks are waiting 6-10 months to get them. So far so good on reliability.

Also factor in that you don't require oil changes or any other fluid changes. The only thing I have done is rotate the tires and top off the washer fluid. The batteries and drive units have an 8 year 120k mile warranty.

By the way, I wish GM would adopt the same direct ordering process that Telsa has implemented. It is fantastic. Build your car online, leave your $250 order fee and wait for a VIN to be assigned. You do all the paperwork online and take delivery of the car in about 15-20 minutes. I bought two of them and I still find it shocking how smooth it is compared to the traditional dealership experience.

As for service, I had a couple of scratches on the rocker panels when they lowered the car off the transported. I opened a service ticket via the Tesla app, they order the parts and a service tech showed up in my driveway a couple days later and installed them in my garage. My mind was blown after experiencing the traditional service model for the past 35 years.

That is awesome. That's how it should work. I've been looking and pricing their models for the past hour. Gotta say, it's definitely where cars should go in performance, features, aesthetics, and corporate structure. But it's pricey.

[90503]

The Chevy Blazer is revealing the Blazer EV SS on Monday. The Blazer takes a lot of styling ques from the Camaro. Now with an SS EV Blazer, this will be pretty close to the EV Mustang. I think the Camaro is done. Put some Camaro badges on this SS Blazer EV, and call it a day. EVs won't be all that different from one another. Same platform, same batteries, etc. Don't hold your breath for an EV Camaro. My $.02.

https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us...lazerevss.html

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive

That is awesome. That's how it should work. I've been looking and pricing their models for the past hour. Gotta say, it's definitely where cars should go in performance, features, aesthetics, and corporate structure. But it's pricey.

Yeah, the prices were actually pretty good before the pandemic and supply chain mess.

This is my concern if GM releases an EV coupe. If it follows the same plan as the Hummer EV, Silverado EV, Cadillac Lyriq, they are all very expensive. This is one of the reasons why I went out and purchased a ZL1 last year.

The other issue is how do you differentiate the trims? There would have to be more focus on feature like performance suspension, mag ride, bigger screens and more tech since from a performance perspective these EVs pretty much all feel the same. Instant torque even on the lower trims feel about the same as the higher trims, they just maintain peak torque for a bit longer. I had a Model 3 Performance that I sold and the standard Model 3 we have doesn't feel much slower. It technically is, but it doesn't feel that way because of how the power delivery works with EVs. They all give you that instant jolt for passing power but they level off. The torque curve is like a square wave.

I guess what I am trying to say is there has to be more than a ZL1 EV Camaro that does 0-60mph in 2.8 vs. an EV SS that does it in 3.3 seconds. From my experience, it just won't matter that much. Also, how can you justify huge price increases where the main technical difference between the trims is the just programming of how much torque to command and peak voltage? This is basically the difference between the Model 3 Performance and Dual Motor. They have the same hardware. You can even pay $2k on a dual motor for an acceleration upgrade and they will unlock an OTA update and add another 50hp and torque to knock .5 seconds off you time.

If we wind up being stuck with EV performance cars I hope they can figure out how to make them desirable to enthusiasts. I think what is going to happen is initially folks are going to like EVs because of the instant torque and how quick the feel at street speeds. Then after they get used to that they will be left missing the drama and engagement that ICE based engines and transmissions offer. I say this because I am a typical enthusiast like most here and I already went through this buying cycle. At the moment, I think the right mix is an EV for daily duty and an ICE based performance vehicle for the fun stuff.

[NZ ZL1]

No

[1fastz28]

I really think that until the grid is updated which is needed regardless of the expansion of electric vehicles, that the best way to lower pollution and increase range is plug-in hybrids. For most short drives which makes up the majority of driving you can just drive on electric power. And when you want to go on longer trips you gas up instead of spending 30-60 mins at a charger. The volt was REALLY ahead of its time.