[Raven87]

Originally Posted by LateBrakeU2

Having a wish list that includes carbon this and that and 3600 lbs, and coming in at 50k?. The gen 5Z stickered at 76k for a reason,the RPO alone was three times the price of a base six cyl.

Yessir. How much performance/lightweighting do you want?

Just tell me how much are you willing to spend...

[zryan]

Wasn't z28 supposed to be the road racer and zl1 the straight line burner?

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by zryan

Wasn't z28 supposed to be the road racer and zl1 the straight line burner?

Yep, at least that was they way it was back in '69.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Raven87

There is no one who would love to see a 6th Gen Z/28 more than me. However...

Given that Camaro sales numbers are in the tank, that the ZL1 1LE has essentially EVERYTHING the Z/28 would/should have performance-wise (except it has forced induction), and that it can do everything well - straight line AND road course - I hate to say it but there is absolutely no need for a Z/28.

I had hoped that we would see the car that became the ZL1 1LE badged as a Z/28 but GM went with the 1LE moniker which, was pointed out very well, ties the Camaro track brand together. The Z/28 is very unlikely to be seen while the ZL1 1LE is loose on the streets and tracks.

I too would love to see a N/A 550 HP, lightweighted and track specific (but street legal) car badged as a Z/28 and I think we can all make a case for it - until it comes to sales numbers, the ZL1 1LE already exists, and the financial loss that GM dealers had to swallow on the 5th gen Z/28.

In a boardroom full of beancounters, deciding to invest capital to develop and sell a Z/28 when you already have the ZL1 1LE is a very hard sell, especially when there are still a FEW 5th Gen Z/28s STILL sitting on dealers' lots now 3 model years after production.

I'm just guessing but I think there was pressure to NOT badge the ZL1 1LE as a Z/28 just to divest of what perception the detrimental sales of the 5th Gen Z/28 was for the company. From a performance standpoint, the 5th gen Z/28 was a five start winner. But from investors, accountants, and statisticians viewpoints', it was a horrible decision.

Maybe sales are in the tank because everything GM does is a 6.2 or 6.2 liter with a blower, making far less power than the competition. Dodge has gotten a 10 year old car to, not only limp along, but push its way into the middle of the pack, sales wise.

Ring times are great but not everyone understands what it means.

People understand that 707 hp is more than 650 hp. People understand that 808 hp is more than 650 hp.

GM needs to get out of the easy mode they take with their engines and do something exciting. That, or let the Camaro fall further behind.

Originally Posted by Raven87

Yep, at least that was they way it was back in '69.

In 1969, the ZL-1 was an aluminum 427 that some dealers figured out a way to get into Camaros using a backdoor in the ordering system. It was never meant to be in a Camaro.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

In 1969, the ZL-1 was an aluminum 427 that some dealers figured out a way to get into Camaros using a backdoor in the ordering system. It was never meant to be in a Camaro.

Very true from its original design. However, when Fred Gibb and Dick Harrell worked with Chevrolet to approve the ZL1 motor for COPO ordering along with specific trim and options (and option-deletes), the ZL1 Camaro was created.

And, it had only one specific purpose - to beat the Hemi MOPARs at the drag strips in 1969.

The Z/28 on the other hand was purpose built for Trans Am racing, beginning back in 1967.

Both were and are incredible cars but both had a different mission statement way back then.

[zryan]

I just don't understand why make the switch. ZL1 should take the fight right to the strip and z28 needs to be the corner carving road racer. They will have to let the z28 tag sit inactive for now.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by zryan

I just don't understand why make the switch. ZL1 should take the fight right to the strip and z28 needs to be the corner carving road racer. They will have to let the z28 tag sit inactive for now.

Team Camaro is put in a bad spot because they can only use the engines developed for the Corvette. Team Corvette decided that going all supercharged was their best route (turned out not to be) and that probably keeps the Z/28 from coming back.

If you want a Z/28 tell GM to give Team Camaro the engines it needs for what they want.

[PinHead]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Team Camaro is put in a bad spot because they can only use the engines developed for the Corvette. Team Corvette decided that going all supercharged was their best route (turned out not to be) and that probably keeps the Z/28 from coming back.

If you want a Z/28 tell GM to give Team Camaro the engines it needs for what they want.

I'm waiting for a Z28 Gen6 w/an LS/ZZ Rat Motor.

[Battlezone580]

I highly doubt there will ever be a Z/28 again. The ZL1 is a amazing platform, the 1LE version took it to another level.

The Z/28 would need to shed some more weigh, and gain 100hp to beat the ZL1 1LE. Its just not going to happen. l

Plus what N/A motor does Chevy have that producers upwards of 600hp? I guess they can modify the LS7. But I believe the days of big 7.0L blocks are long behind us.

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Team Camaro is put in a bad spot because they can only use the engines developed for the Corvette. Team Corvette decided that going all supercharged was their best route (turned out not to be) and that probably keeps the Z/28 from coming back.

If you want a Z/28 tell GM to give Team Camaro the engines it needs for what they want.

Lets be honest Chevy has perfected the LT1 and LT4, no way they would spend a dime making camaro specific engines. It wouldn't make any sense, when you have to amazing engines to already use.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Team Camaro is put in a bad spot because they can only use the engines developed for the Corvette. Team Corvette decided that going all supercharged was their best route (turned out not to be) and that probably keeps the Z/28 from coming back.

If you want a Z/28 tell GM to give Team Camaro the engines it needs for what they want.

They are also in a bad spot IMO bc the 5th gen car put the Z/28 on such a high pedestal that it was never on before. I think to many people know would expect it to be that now. IMO the best route for a 6th gen Z/28 would be basically a more extreme SS 1LE. Slot it between the SS 1 LE and ZL1. If it goes to the extremes that it would need to one up the ZL1 1LE in track performance, you would probably be looking at a 85-90K camaro....is there a market for that? We saw what the market was for the 5th gen Z at 75K

IIRC the first gen Z/28s were right in line price wise with a SS 396 car depending on options.

Originally Posted by Battlezone580

I highly doubt there will ever be a Z/28 again. The ZL1 is a amazing platform, the 1LE version took it to another level.

The Z/28 would need to shed some more weigh, and gain 100hp to beat the ZL1 1LE. Its just not going to happen. l

Plus what N/A motor does Chevy have that producers upwards of 600hp? I guess they can modify the LS7. But I believe the days of big 7.0L blocks are long behind us.



Lets be honest Chevy has perfected the LT1 and LT4, no way they would spend a dime making camaro specific engines. It wouldn't make any sense, when you have to amazing engines to already use.

The LS7 is dead, and Chevy tried to make 600+ HP for the Z06 NA and failed, if team corvette couldn't do it why would team camaro be able to? Dodge needed 2 extra cylinders and 8.4L to get 640 HP for the viper

[LateBrakeU2]

The Z/28 is not always the performance halo Camaro. It was in the early second gen,categorically in the 5. You only have to go back to the 4th gen Z to see how limited it was as an RPO,the SS could be ordered with more performance goodies then. They really have all the bases covered with the ZL11LE, will be interesting to see how they sell.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Battlezone580

Lets be honest Chevy has perfected the LT1 and LT4, no way they would spend a dime making camaro specific engines. It wouldn't make any sense, when you have to amazing engines to already use.

I think perfected is being a little generous. The Camaro M6 LT1 is forced to use AFM lifters, despite not having the AFM capability. Also, the 1.7 liter blower on the LT4 was a compromise to fit under the hood. The engine could only have been made better by going with a bigger blower.

Originally Posted by shaffe

They are also in a bad spot IMO bc the 5th gen car put the Z/28 on such a high pedestal that it was never on before. I think to many people know would expect it to be that now. IMO the best route for a 6th gen Z/28 would be basically a more extreme SS 1LE. Slot it between the SS 1 LE and ZL1. If it goes to the extremes that it would need to one up the ZL1 1LE in track performance, you would probably be looking at a 85-90K camaro....is there a market for that? We saw what the market was for the 5th gen Z at 75K

It still could be a top Camaro. There are things like carbon brakes, carbon wheels and active aero they could apply to the Z/28. The only issue with the 5th gen Z/28 was they built too many. They need to do a better job of managing production.

Originally Posted by shaffe

IIRC the first gen Z/28s were right in line price wise with a SS 396 car depending on options.

Kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

Originally Posted by shaffe

The LS7 is dead, and Chevy tried to make 600+ HP for the Z06 NA and failed, if team corvette couldn't do it why would team camaro be able to? Dodge needed 2 extra cylinders and 8.4L to get 640 HP for the viper

It's obvious Team Corvette wanted the Z06 to be a jack of all trades super car performer. The LTx 7.0 may have been perfect for an n/a track car but it wouldn't put up big acceleration numbers.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

Yeah I didn't really finish my thought on that lol. Not sure where I was even going with it

[BradfordCamaro]

Sure. I will add another 2 cents.

Make a car that a ZL1 is not. Nav? Back seat? Dual Zone climate controls? Ambient lightning?

Gone. Gone. Gone. Gone.

Strip it down. Throw out the rear seats. Actual race seats...comfortable but only 20lbs each not 50lbs+.
Basic radio and climate controls.
Maybe some light weight panels.
Stronger 6.2L or 7.0L...whatever. Just more!
Revised gear box.

There. Lighter weight. Potentially 100's of LBs lighter. Kick ass HP and Torque. 550/550 with the right gearing.
Bam. Track monster.