[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by tbrennyZL1

The carbon brakes don't make a huge difference in stopping power, but they last longer and are less prone to fade. I dont see anyway it would best the Z06, still has 300 plus pounds but it could close the gap. I've said on other threads I'd love to see all the testing done with the sport cup 2 tires. I bet it would cut the existing gap between the ZL1 and Z06/Z07 in half.

The gap on that track between the two...was ~1 second.

...less than 1 second if you buy into the PDR lap time of 1:25.8x with the corrected tire pressures.

And nobody ever tested Z06/base vs Z06/Z07 to get a performance delta for that equipment. I'd be very, very, very interested to see the results.

[Memphis]

A reveal for a road course Camaro at a Nascar event still seems far fetched.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

And nobody ever tested Z06/base vs Z06/Z07 to get a performance delta for that equipment. I'd be very, very, very interested to see the results.

The difference between the Z06 and the Z07 is more than brakes. IIRC a magazine reported that the difference was about 2 seconds at Road Atlanta.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Memphis

A reveal for a road course Camaro at a Nascar event still seems far fetched.

The difference between the Z06 and the Z07 is more than brakes. IIRC a magazine reported that the difference was about 2 seconds at Road Atlanta.

Yes. I know they stiffened the suspension calibration, in addition to more aggressive aero, tires, and the brakes. I'm not sure what else was included.

Road Atlanta is of similar length and speed as Big Willow. Randy Pobst posted a 1:30 there in a Z06....

If the difference was about 2 seconds...Then it may be fair to assume that the ZL1 is as fast, or ~a tenth faster than a base Z06 around one of those tracks. And that applying the same "Z07" treatment to a ZL1 could very well keep that margin vs a Z06/Z07 Stingray.

Absolutely incredible car....I just can't get over it. I remember back to when they were testing and Al O. kept going on about the car on facebook and other outlets, "You guys are going to love this car." "You won't believe how good this thing is", etc.....I get it now!!

[Artos]

It's really gotta make you wonder what the new Z28 will do on the track now that we know the results of the ZL1...while I would still choose the ZL1 for the luxuries, sorta riveted to see what times this dedicated racer Camaro is going to turn!! Good stuff.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Yes. I know they stiffened the suspension calibration, in addition to more aggressive aero, tires, and the brakes. I'm not sure what else was included.

Road Atlanta is of similar length and speed as Big Willow. Randy Pobst posted a 1:30 there in a Z06....

If the difference was about 2 seconds...Then it may be fair to assume that the ZL1 is as fast, or ~a tenth faster than a base Z06 around one of those tracks. And that applying the same "Z07" treatment to a ZL1 could very well keep that margin vs a Z06/Z07 Stingray.

Absolutely incredible car....I just can't get over it. I remember back to when they were testing and Al O. kept going on about the car on facebook and other outlets, "You guys are going to love this car." "You won't believe how good this thing is", etc.....I get it now!!

[TLSTWIN]

Originally Posted by Artos

It's really gotta make you wonder what the new Z28 will do on the track now that we know the results of the ZL1...while I would still choose the ZL1 for the luxuries, sorta riveted to see what times this dedicated racer Camaro is going to turn!! Good stuff.

Me too. It would seem to be Zo6 territory or faster

[TLSTWIN]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Yes. I know they stiffened the suspension calibration, in addition to more aggressive aero, tires, and the brakes. I'm not sure what else was included.

Road Atlanta is of similar length and speed as Big Willow. Randy Pobst posted a 1:30 there in a Z06....

If the difference was about 2 seconds...Then it may be fair to assume that the ZL1 is as fast, or ~a tenth faster than a base Z06 around one of those tracks. And that applying the same "Z07" treatment to a ZL1 could very well keep that margin vs a Z06/Z07 Stingray.

Absolutely incredible car....I just can't get over it. I remember back to when they were testing and Al O. kept going on about the car on facebook and other outlets, "You guys are going to love this car." "You won't believe how good this thing is", etc.....I get it now!!

I know. I was torn because I was all set to start looking at getting a Grandsport, but now I just love to see the stats of the ZL1

[mr965]

Anxiously awaiting for my ZL1 delivery or the prospect of a Z28 decision.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

There's another thought to ponder, here....

I truly believe a ZL1 with carbon brakes and sticky tires would best a Z06/Z07, or at the very least...keep up with it around a track...for about $25,000 cheaper. That's insane.

With rumors of the Corvette going mid-engined and (presumably) higher-priced...could they be preparing to position some expensive Camaro models (ZL1, Z/28) in the gap that puts in the Chevy price range?

A Camaro will never "be a Corvette"...I'm not so naive as to suggest that...but it will be the "affordable" alternative to a 100k+ Chevy supercar.....IF all that comes to pass.

While I agree that a Camaro will never be a Corvette, in that sense, if GM makes the Corvette a mid engine car, there will be a lot of disenfranchised Corvette people. These are the folks that will be looking for a new front engine toy. With GM making the Camaro within inches of the current Corvette, performance wise, it could all be part of the plan.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

There's another thought to ponder, here....

I truly believe a ZL1 with carbon brakes and sticky tires would best a Z06/Z07, or at the very least...keep up with it around a track...for about $25,000 cheaper. That's insane.

With rumors of the Corvette going mid-engined and (presumably) higher-priced...could they be preparing to position some expensive Camaro models (ZL1, Z/28) in the gap that puts in the Chevy price range?

A Camaro will never "be a Corvette"...I'm not so naive as to suggest that...but it will be the "affordable" alternative to a 100k+ Chevy supercar.....IF all that comes to pass.

I think it would close the gap, but the Z06/Z07 is from what is out there now, the fastest vehicle in the GM stable. I just don't see a Camaro topping the current top of the line Corvette. And that's not a protect the Vette statement, just IMO the Corvette would still have the edge in just about every performance measurable, I don't see how sticky tires and better brakes would make the Camaro faster or just as fast, close the gap yes, faster or just as fast I don't see it.

I look at the C6 Z06/Z07 which lapped Laguna Seca in in 1.34.43. Still 3 seconds faster than the Z/28 when they had the same power plant.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think it would close the gap, but the Z06/Z07 is from what is out there now, the fastest vehicle in the GM stable. I just don't see a Camaro topping the current top of the line Corvette. And that's not a protect the Vette statement, just IMO the Corvette would still have the edge in just about every performance measurable, I don't see how sticky tires and better brakes would make the Camaro faster or just as fast, close the gap yes, faster or just as fast I don't see it.

I look at the C6 Z06/Z07 which lapped Laguna Seca in in 1.34.43. Still 3 seconds faster than the Z/28 when they had the same power plant.

At first glance it doesn't make sense...but I think this is a real possibility.

Just look at how close the track times are. 1:25.00 around Big Willow. ZL1 manual did that same track in 1:26.16, without the benefits of Z07-style equipment. According to PDR, the properly-set up A10 car did it in 1:25.8x...

As great as it is...and it IS...the Corvette is a handful, and for the past two generations, has struggled to put its power down efficiently...which is one of th bigger reasons (theoretically) that is driving this shift to mid-engine...

Other factors in this discussion include high-speed drag, which hold the Z06/Z07 back in acceleration on long straights. Using the wing-style spoiler, the ZL1 gets around a lot of that...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

At first glance it doesn't make sense...but I think this is a real possibility.

Just look at how close the track times are. 1:25.00 around Big Willow. ZL1 manual did that same track in 1:26.16, without the benefits of Z07-style equipment. According to PDR, the properly-set up A10 car did it in 1:25.8x...

As great as it is...and it IS...the Corvette is a handful, and for the past two generations, has struggled to put its power down efficiently...which is one of th bigger reasons (theoretically) that is driving this shift to mid-engine...

Other factors in this discussion include high-speed drag, which hold the Z06/Z07 back in acceleration on long straights. Using the wing-style spoiler, the ZL1 gets around a lot of that...

I guess it would depend on the track, but everything in my head still points to the Corvette being faster.

Let's look at everyone's favorite track to talk about on the internet the Ring.

Current ZL1 did it in 7:29.60

C6 Z06/Z07 Did it in 7:22.68

C6 ZR1 did it in 7:19.63

I would assume and I know thats dangerous lol that the Current Z06/Z07 splits that difference(or might even be faster as the C7 Z06/Z07 has been faster on some tracks than the ZR1). I don't see sticky tires and better brakes putting the ZL1 in that range. Closing the gap you bet but being faster I just don't see it and I am not trying to knock the Camaro, I guess I just am pessimistic and keep my hopes low so I get surprised more often lol.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I guess it would depend on the track, but everything in my head still points to the Corvette being faster.

Let's look at everyone's favorite track to talk about on the internet the Ring.

Current ZL1 did it in 7:29.60

C6 Z06/Z07 Did it in 7:22.68

C6 ZR1 did it in 7:19.63

I would assume and I know thats dangerous lol that the Current Z06/Z07 splits that difference(or might even be faster as the C7 Z06/Z07 has been faster on some tracks than the ZR1). I don't see sticky tires and better brakes putting the ZL1 in that range. Closing the gap you bet but being faster I just don't see it and I am not trying to knock the Camaro, I guess I just am pessimistic and keep my hopes low so I get surprised more often lol.

Firstly...that track is 5.2x longer than Big Willow...factor that into the gap in times, and the difference is....1.3 seconds!! So very close to the gap at Big Willow. ()

In any event it's hard to compare those cars...the C6 platform was lighter in every trim than the C7....for example, the old Z06 was a 3300 lb car....it's now 3500...and the old car, while it couldn't keep its power down at all, didn't suffer from as much high-speed drag as the new one...which would kill it on the Nordschliefe's long straights. It's one of the reasons I wonder why there has been no Corvette Nurburgring lap times to-date...perhaps they couldn't best the last-gen ZR1 with all that drag? It's a fast track...certainly not saying anything bad about the new car.

But you could look at the 5th gen ZL1...7:41...and the Z/28 7:37 (wet)...that car was significantly down on power, but the tires, suspension, weight were the primary reason lap times improved, because it could hold significantly higher speeds through the corners. That is evidence that tires can make a huge difference.

Furthermore...in 2006, when the Z06 first came out, well before they developed the Z07 package...the car did a 7:42 around that track....that's the same time as the 5th gen ZL1................

And finally...the original ZR1...pre-Z07 package, and I think they called it the "Carbon" package at the time...in any event, it put up a time of 7:26.4 around the Green Hell's north loop...after the package (tires), and some practice...they were able to hit the 7:19 mark.

I'm not attempting to predict the future...and all this talk about sticky tires and Z07 packages with regards to the ZL1 is pure theory...but I am confident, that IF the same treatment (stiffer suspension, more aggressive aero, sticky tires, and bigger CCM brakes) was given to the ZL1...we'd see a Z06/Z07-beating time...even if just by a sneeze.

It's also worth mentioning that I'll bet the Corvettes going around the 'Ring were 1LT trims....no nonsense...that's not even an option in ZL1, and likely at the penalty of an extra 25-40 lbs of "stuff"...

Regardless...I hope we can all agree the Zl1 is DAMN QUICK...and to make a Z/28 go faster around a track will require some Al Oppenheiser-style witchcraft...

[shaffe]

All sound logic it would be interesting to see.

back to our regularly scheduled programing

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I wasn't necessarily replying to you. Just commenting that the Camaro line up is pretty full and covers a wide range of performance. It's just missing the track monster, and that will be more money.

if a ZL1 is now close to 68K (MSRP like the one i have on order) with with all the good parts needed only, think the Z/28 will price out at 84K IMO

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

quoted for truth...

+1

Originally Posted by KenB925

I'm guessing it will be base priced just below $80k

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think it would close the gap, but the Z06/Z07 is from what is out there now, the fastest vehicle in the GM stable. I just don't see a Camaro topping the current top of the line Corvette. And that's not a protect the Vette statement, just IMO the Corvette would still have the edge in just about every performance measurable, I don't see how sticky tires and better brakes would make the Camaro faster or just as fast, close the gap yes, faster or just as fast I don't see it.

I look at the C6 Z06/Z07 which lapped Laguna Seca in in 1.34.43. Still 3 seconds faster than the Z/28 when they had the same power plant.

I think the Z?28 will inherit the top spot, for a short time only, the Corvette will get it back as soon as the new mid engine is out.

Cant see how GM can sale the new Z/28 under $80K if the last car was $76K, that will be the lowest increase in price going from 5th to 6th gen model to same model.