12-23-2019, 09:02 AM | #5559 |
Drives: E92 BMW M3 Join Date: Oct 2012
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Say that quietly, the Mustang bois will get upset.
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12-23-2019, 09:17 AM | #5560 |
Retired from GM
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I've said the same over on C6G. Many times.
Don't get me wrong, the C8 team isn't losing sleep over GT500, but they are also not letting it out of their sight. Primary competitors are clearly Porsche / Ferrari / McLaren. But Jaguar F-Type, Shelby GT500, Mercedes AMG GT and Nissan GTR are all in the "second ring" of competitors on the landscape. All of them would like to punch upward to compete with Z06 / ZR1, just like Corvette for years has had to punch upward to hit 911 / 458 / 488 / 570s / 720s. Competitor Intel isn't just about who you are targeting, it's also about who is targeting you.
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12-23-2019, 09:34 AM | #5561 |
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Classy. There are beliefs and then there is reality.
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12-23-2019, 09:53 AM | #5562 | ||||||
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GT500 base price - 70,300 Destination 1,095 Gas Guzzler 2600 TOTAL 73995 https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/thr...ptions.124689/ Quote:
A track focused car is something everyone says they want then when it comes out its hard to find homes for it. See 5th gen Z/28 They made 500 or so first year, and some fetched markup prices some at MSRP. Then made too many the second year and had to heavily discount them to move them. GM originally planned to limit the ZLE, and then decided not to. And what do you see now, they sit on lots and need discounts to move them. Point is building a track focused car and finding the right number to build is really tough. I think that is the reason Ford limits R and CFTP production is they are trying to find the sweet spot of cars made and not having to discount them. But then the dealers get super greedy because its rare and people are stupid enough to pay it so we are back at square one and who the hell knows lol. Quote:
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I could see Shelby back in the day being the answer to the Corvette. I mean they had nothing racing wise until the BOSS cars. But now in 2019 isn't Shelby just a name and a marketing ploy? Because now weren't the Shelby cars of back in the day sent to Shelby in Las Vegas vs now they are in house produced on same assembly line? I mean before SVT got rebranded into Ford Performance the GT500 had SVT logos all over it still and they just kind of used the Shelby name with the retro design in 2007. I don't think anyone would say the earlier SVT Mustangs were targeted at Corvette(maybe the 03/04 terminators or maybe that was just making up for the mess that was 01) I could see Ford wanting to target Corvette performance bc in theory that would make it best Camaro as well. Price wise (until recently) it still lined up with Camaro - is that just by chance?
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Last edited by shaffe; 12-23-2019 at 10:03 AM. |
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12-23-2019, 09:54 AM | #5563 |
Drives: 20 1LE 2SS M6 Rally Green Join Date: Mar 2014
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"the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” Ronald Reagan - |
12-23-2019, 09:58 AM | #5564 |
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12-23-2019, 10:22 AM | #5565 | |
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Location: Tampa Florida
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GT500 sells for over over msrp: No man, that's b.s. and it doesn't count as a basis for price vs the zl1, go by published msrp numbers not real world sales numbers. Base vs base, options dont count. Fanboy logic..... I won't say Ford logic, because there's plenty of cool Ford guys around living in the real world.
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2019 Mustang GT pp1 - svt pp2 wheels, mbrp cat back, sync 3 upgrade, p1x procharger + stg2 intercooler. 2018 Colorado zr2 - zr2 sport bar, showcase spare tire. 2018 Camaro SS 1LE - GM cai, black bowties, suede knee bolsters, 1le plate frame, black fuel door, dark tails + 3rd brake light, euro side markers + led's, GM all weather floor mats, velossatech big mouth, GM strut brace. 2017 Corvette Grandsport (sold) - untouched. 2006 GTO (sold) - iat relocation, air box mod, monero side marker lights. |
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12-23-2019, 10:26 AM | #5566 | |
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Tampa Florida
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2000 Miata - aventi storm wheels, roll bar.
2019 Mustang GT pp1 - svt pp2 wheels, mbrp cat back, sync 3 upgrade, p1x procharger + stg2 intercooler. 2018 Colorado zr2 - zr2 sport bar, showcase spare tire. 2018 Camaro SS 1LE - GM cai, black bowties, suede knee bolsters, 1le plate frame, black fuel door, dark tails + 3rd brake light, euro side markers + led's, GM all weather floor mats, velossatech big mouth, GM strut brace. 2017 Corvette Grandsport (sold) - untouched. 2006 GTO (sold) - iat relocation, air box mod, monero side marker lights. |
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12-23-2019, 10:29 AM | #5567 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Tampa Florida
Posts: 1,980
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Whenever newmoon gets proven wrong, he'll just ignore then come back a little while later like it never happened lol
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2000 Miata - aventi storm wheels, roll bar.
2019 Mustang GT pp1 - svt pp2 wheels, mbrp cat back, sync 3 upgrade, p1x procharger + stg2 intercooler. 2018 Colorado zr2 - zr2 sport bar, showcase spare tire. 2018 Camaro SS 1LE - GM cai, black bowties, suede knee bolsters, 1le plate frame, black fuel door, dark tails + 3rd brake light, euro side markers + led's, GM all weather floor mats, velossatech big mouth, GM strut brace. 2017 Corvette Grandsport (sold) - untouched. 2006 GTO (sold) - iat relocation, air box mod, monero side marker lights. |
12-23-2019, 10:31 AM | #5568 |
Drives: 2018 ZL1 coupe Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Prescott, Arizona
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12-23-2019, 10:32 AM | #5569 | |
Retired from GM
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Quote:
This is my opinion of what is going on. Based more on connecting dots than on any date - place - time provable evidence. A lot of Tier 1 suppliers in the powertrain space have had to develop product that deliver improved performance and meet known (and some unknown) fuel economy and performance targets. Several have gotten really good at it. Borg Warner, Bosch, Continental, Denso, Eaton, Magna, Tremec, ZF just to name a few. This has given the OEMs (Ford, GM, FCA) the ability to free up development resources to focus on the base powertrain development and focus on integrating the technologies of the Tier 1s into the development cycle. OEMs develop the basic structure of the powerplants and also "twist the knobs" of the tools provided by the Tier 1s. I'm over-simplifying big time, but bear with me. As a result the OEMs have vastly improved in their ability to calibrate chassis and powertrain to develop a portfolio ranging from people mover to track monster (CTS --> ZL1, Fiesta --> FiST, and EB --> GT500) with the same basic hardware sets plus integrated hardware and software from Tier 1s. No more dropping in a somewhat hotter engine and stiffer springs, slapping a few decals on and calling it a day like in the post-Shelby SVT days. Those SVT products never claimed to compete with Corvette and rightly so. As has been stated Mustangs and Camaros have always competed. My point is Shelbys and Corvettes have also always competed when there were Shelbys. The REALLY hot stuff had to be done offline (Shelby American), even with the SVT badging. But during that time, the really hot "Shelby" stuff was Shelby American's own portfolio of tuned cars. That lasted right up until the 2014 GT500 dropped in with 662 hp. Bottom line, Ford's capability improved to the point that they no longer need Shelby American to "finish" their performance cars for them. Out with SVT, in with Ford Performance. The change coincided with the sea change in capability of just making Mustangs faster to doing world class chassis and powertrain tuning. This happened probably one product cycle behind GM deciding that Camaro had to transcend the historic pony car envelope to include world class handling and road manners.
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12-23-2019, 10:32 AM | #5570 | ||
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
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I mean on the MSRP to MSRP thing he is not wrong, but the poster he quoted was directly referring to the deal they got vs MSRP so thats where the difference of 25K was |
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12-23-2019, 10:39 AM | #5571 |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,035
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Thanks Martin!
Laid out that way it makes a ton of sense. |
12-23-2019, 11:20 AM | #5572 | |
Drives: The DSSV Twins: ZR2 and ZLE A10 Join Date: Oct 2019
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