[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

This necessarily assumes home ownership, either single-family or duplex/condo dwelling with off-street parking that's preferably under cover.

That lifestyle is out of reach for a great many people, and completely takes the "charge at home" option off the table for them. Now, how does that get resolved with the push to make EVs "for everybody"?


Norm

This right here. At my apartment complex there is a ton of parking spaces but no way to charge. We have two garages one for the Camaro and the other for the Subaru with a way to charge but the majority do not have a garage. There are also apartment complexes that don't have garages at all to charge. Norm also brought up the other situation that I completely forgot about too. I think Toyota and Mercedes have the right approach by continuing to offer the ICE cars alongside the EVs until the ICE naturally goes away instead of trying to force EVs for everyone.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

This right here. At my apartment complex there is a ton of parking spaces but no way to charge. We have two garages one for the Camaro and the other for the Subaru with a way to charge but the majority do not have a garage. There are also apartment complexes that don't have garages at all to charge. Norm also brought up the other situation that I completely forgot about too. I think Toyota and Mercedes have the right approach by continuing to offer the ICE cars alongside the EVs until the ICE naturally goes away instead of trying to force EVs for everyone.

At some point, there will have to be Costco and Sam's club type mega-stations for charging in populated metro areas, otherwise they will lose a lot of sales of EVs..and the wait to plug in and wait for a charge will end up being unavoidable, and pricey...

The garage homeowner market seems like the majority of buyers now, but that likely won't last.

The EV for everyone will be an electric public transportation bus...

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

This right here. At my apartment complex there is a ton of parking spaces but no way to charge. We have two garages one for the Camaro and the other for the Subaru with a way to charge but the majority do not have a garage. There are also apartment complexes that don't have garages at all to charge. Norm also brought up the other situation that I completely forgot about too. I think Toyota and Mercedes have the right approach by continuing to offer the ICE cars alongside the EVs until the ICE naturally goes away instead of trying to force EVs for everyone.

This will start to be the norm. Property owners will will use EV charging as an incentive for their properties.

https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/...ts-and-condos/

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

This right here. At my apartment complex there is a ton of parking spaces but no way to charge. We have two garages one for the Camaro and the other for the Subaru with a way to charge but the majority do not have a garage. There are also apartment complexes that don't have garages at all to charge. Norm also brought up the other situation that I completely forgot about too. I think Toyota and Mercedes have the right approach by continuing to offer the ICE cars alongside the EVs until the ICE naturally goes away instead of trying to force EVs for everyone.

waiting until ICE naturally goes away is too late for the point of getting off ICE vehicles to matter.

The benefits of slowing down the rise of the global temperature decreases each year we fail to make a significant decrease in co2 and other emissions.

That's why there is a push for forced phasing out of ICE vehicles. It needs to happen sooner, rather than later.

It also has the side effect of accelerating the optimization of the EV platform and infrastructure beyond what that would naturally be - which is necessary to have an alternative in place in time before it's needed to avoid economic interruption.

Without this kind of market behavior, manufacturers and the public would drive ICE until we ran out of fuel and oil or lived in a blanket of smog, with no real effort to seek any alternative solutions ...causing a global economic collapse while they scramble to put in place ev's or some other alternative. Because their decisions are largely based around only caring about themselves and their immediate future.

Doing what they're doing now benefits everyone more than "letting it naturally die", because it ensures there is an alternative before we absolutely need it that can effectively replace ICE at a national level.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

waiting until ICE naturally goes away is too late for the point of getting off ICE vehicles to matter.

The benefits of slowing down the rise of the global temperature decreases each year we fail to make a significant decrease in co2 and other emissions.

That's why there is a push for forced phasing out of ICE vehicles. It needs to happen sooner, rather than later.

It also has the side effect of accelerating the optimization of the EV platform and infrastructure beyond what that would naturally be - which is necessary to have an alternative in place in time before it's needed to avoid economic interruption.

Without this kind of market behavior, manufacturers and the public would drive ICE until we ran out of fuel and oil or lived in a blanket of smog, with no real effort to seek any alternative solutions ...causing a global economic collapse while they scramble to put in place ev's or some other alternative. Because their decisions are largely based around only caring about themselves and their immediate future.

Doing what they're doing now benefits everyone more than "letting it naturally die", because it ensures there is an alternative before we absolutely need it that can effectively replace ICE at a national level.

Hey I am not the one who makes cars if these car companies see demand for keeping the ICE vehicles around then so be it. You want it to stop the best thing to do is convince the people keeping the demand up for ICE cars. Just sayin. I don't run the automotive companies applying this strategy. They know something I or we don't.

[90503]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

This will start to be the norm. Property owners will will use EV charging as an incentive for their properties.

https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/...ts-and-condos/

That sounds wonderful. In reality, though, too wonderful. The last thing landlords want or care about is another maintenance head-ache, and tenants would not be happy about another monthly fee for the installation and maintenance of a plug that then costs them more money to use. Most now aren't even close to providing adequate parking for their best of tenants
and most units have many more cars than on-site parking provided, electric or not...

I would love to see every car that belongs to a tenant of a condo or apartment be parked in it's own space and plugged in. The reality is most are parked in the street in front of someone else's home.

Even single family homeowners who actually park a car in the garage are becoming more rare. Garage conversions to dwellings are actually being promoted as a tool to provide more housing. Building and zoning laws are designed for density and high occupancy with absolutely no provisions for any additional parking....

There may be some cases where that service might be realized, but I don't see it in any significant numbers to make a difference.

[90503]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

waiting until ICE naturally goes away is too late for the point of getting off ICE vehicles to matter.

The benefits of slowing down the rise of the global temperature decreases each year we fail to make a significant decrease in co2 and other emissions.

That's why there is a push for forced phasing out of ICE vehicles. It needs to happen sooner, rather than later.

It also has the side effect of accelerating the optimization of the EV platform and infrastructure beyond what that would naturally be - which is necessary to have an alternative in place in time before it's needed to avoid economic interruption.

Without this kind of market behavior, manufacturers and the public would drive ICE until we ran out of fuel and oil or lived in a blanket of smog, with no real effort to seek any alternative solutions ...causing a global economic collapse while they scramble to put in place ev's or some other alternative. Because their decisions are largely based around only caring about themselves and their immediate future.

Doing what they're doing now benefits everyone more than "letting it naturally die", because it ensures there is an alternative before we absolutely need it that can effectively replace ICE at a national level.

Very well put and correctly describing why the "you have a choice to stay with ICE" is a thinly veiled half-truth. The board-rooms have all bought in to the save-the-world PC platitudes. Stick with ICE and you are the problem and must at some point be canceled. ICE will end regardless of who gets put out of work, unable to drive a car they can afford, or economically burdened.

It's too bad for you, we gotta act now...

The goals of GM and others are all there to see...Zero emissions, Zero accidents, Zero congestion. These goals are not compatible with simply replacing existing vehicles with EVs in the same numbers we have now and allowing ICE to be on the road indefinitely as an alternative or choice.
EVs have a cause, a time frame and an agenda to satisfy. And the time is getting shorter.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by 90503

you are the problem and must at some point be canceled. ICE will end regardless of who gets put out of work, unable to drive a car they can afford, or economically burdened.

It's too bad for you, we gotta act now...

Alduous Huxley envisioned that 80 years ago - not necessarily specifically the ICE part but the general concept of all that

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by 90503

That sounds wonderful. In reality, though, too wonderful. The last thing landlords want or care about is another maintenance head-ache, and tenants would not be happy about another monthly fee for the installation and maintenance of a plug that then costs them more money to use. Most now aren't even close to providing adequate parking for their best of tenants
and most units have many more cars than on-site parking provided, electric or not...

I would love to see every car that belongs to a tenant of a condo or apartment be parked in it's own space and plugged in. The reality is most are parked in the street in front of someone else's home.

Even single family homeowners who actually park a car in the garage are becoming more rare. Garage conversions to dwellings are actually being promoted as a tool to provide more housing. Building and zoning laws are designed for density and high occupancy with absolutely no provisions for any additional parking....

There may be some cases where that service might be realized, but I don't see it in any significant numbers to make a difference.

Your post peaked curiosity so I asked my complex manager about the subject of charging stations a few minutes ago. My complex is owned by a company that owns other complexes in St. Louis, Oklahoma City my city Dallas/Fort worth and San Antonio. She told me that the owner has considered it but with lack of support by local and state governments the bill would fall on the tenants with increased rent and when brought up it was an overwhelming no from various property tenants. So unless federal or the Auto companies themselves want to foot the bill the properties for the time being will not be EV friendly.



That was what I received in response. Apparently this happened shortly before I moved in to the complex.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

Your post peaked curiosity so I asked my complex manager about the subject of charging stations a few minutes ago. My complex is owned by a company that owns other complexes in St. Louis, Oklahoma City my city Dallas/Fort worth and San Antonio. She told me that the owner has considered it but with lack of support by local and state governments the bill would fall on the tenants with increased rent and when brought up it was an overwhelming no from various property tenants. So unless federal or the Auto companies themselves want to foot the bill the properties for the time being will not be EV friendly.



That was what I received in response. Apparently this happened shortly before I moved in to the complex.

Yep, this is a real issue and like you said, the government and automakers will probably offer more incentives at some point to make it low/no cost to owners.

[90503]

With all the subsidies and credits and incentives, why not wait until you are just given an EV for free? Why be left out?

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

waiting until ICE naturally goes away is too late for the point of getting off ICE vehicles to matter.

The benefits of slowing down the rise of the global temperature decreases each year we fail to make a significant decrease in co2 and other emissions.

That's why there is a push for forced phasing out of ICE vehicles. It needs to happen sooner, rather than later.

It also has the side effect of accelerating the optimization of the EV platform and infrastructure beyond what that would naturally be - which is necessary to have an alternative in place in time before it's needed to avoid economic interruption.

Without this kind of market behavior, manufacturers and the public would drive ICE until we ran out of fuel and oil or lived in a blanket of smog, with no real effort to seek any alternative solutions ...causing a global economic collapse while they scramble to put in place ev's or some other alternative. Because their decisions are largely based around only caring about themselves and their immediate future.

Doing what they're doing now benefits everyone more than "letting it naturally die", because it ensures there is an alternative before we absolutely need it that can effectively replace ICE at a national level.

The sky is falling The sky is falling. LMAO
Communist takeover. Lmao

[Number 3]

It's easy to come up with reasons why it won't work today. And they are real. Buy then everyone claims it can't be fixed, when it can.

Today the technology exists to get 80% range in 15 minutes with the right charger. Now unless you are in a NASCAR pit crew, when I'm on a road trip a gas stop is 15 minutes to fill up, go inside and hit the restroom and get a soda or coffee or snack. If I can get 80% with a 300 mile range that is 240 miles between charges. My LaCrosse, with it's tiny tank, can probably get 300 miles between stops for gas. This isn't that big a deal.

And every day, people are working to improve this with battery and charging technologies.

As for rental and street charging? It's fixable but the demand isn't there. If apartments or rental properties start losing tenants for not having charging stations it will change. I have a friend who rented out the garage in his old apartment via an app on a per day basis. He got more money by having EV charging in that garage.

Also keep in mind there is a side purpose for EVs. They are farrrrrr superior for autonomous vehicles at L5. And for as much as everyone hates EVs for the lack of vibration and sound to enhance the driving experience, the hate for not having any controls is even higher here. Or should be, lol.

[enzia35]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

This necessarily assumes home ownership, either single-family or duplex/condo dwelling with off-street parking that's preferably under cover.

That lifestyle is out of reach for a great many people, and completely takes the "charge at home" option off the table for them. Now, how does that get resolved with the push to make EVs "for everybody"?


Norm

Asking the real questions.