[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Unless your electrical panel is maxed out it should cost $200 to add a 50 amp breaker and NEMA-50 outlet. You will save that in that month in gas in the first month of ownership. The charger comes included with the car. This will be a transition over time, but most folks that drive 30-50 miles per day will EVs are a non-issue.

Yes you can. I can.

Most Americans aren’t trained/skilled electricians.

Again, the focus here is average Joe American. They have no bloody clue what the hell a NEMA-50 is to begin with. A good skilled electrician to do it right? In many houses that have no basement and the customer won’t want to see conduit on their walls?

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The person driving a $5,000 car every day is also not buying a new non EV either. At some point EVs will be solid used cars that fit that market. I can find a Nissan Leaf right now for well under 10k now. And don't come back with the batteries won't last. They will as well an an ICE in a $5,000 car.

Yeah, there is a good reason why those old Leaf's are that cheap: their batteries are usually on their last legs. And they are criminally ugly, too.

So hopefully, you are taking that extra battery cost into consideration when buying one of those.

Meanwhile, a $1000 99 Corolla can have amazing range. EV's range is still proportional to its cost, so if you want good range and cost, you are still out of luck, for now.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Yeah, there is a good reason why those old Leaf's are that cheap: their batteries are usually on their last legs. And they are criminally ugly, too.

I thought of getting was as a kind like a golf cart for driving around town. But even then, how do you even know the condition of the battery without driving from full charged to empty? I've heard they're are ways to evaluate the condition of the battery. Seems like for used ev's, a battery assessment is more important the the miles it has.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Hops

I thought of getting was as a kind like a golf cart for driving around town. But even then, how do you even know the condition of the battery without driving from full charged to empty? I've heard they're are ways to evaluate the condition of the battery. Seems like for used ev's, a battery assessment is more important the the miles it has.

There are definitely tools built-in to assess that. Some laptops actually have that functionality built-in, for example. My older Lenovo laptops had the Lenovo Vantage app, which can display the battery wear level, while my current Surface Book 3 has a built-in command that can generate a battery report(I think it's Surface family exclusive). For a car, that probably gets integrated as part of the OBD2 port.

If you look at Leaf, there are also studies that show standard-range Leaf has noticeably worse battery wear than long-range Leaf. Batteries hate deep cycling in general, and your depth of discharge, with the same trip, will be worse on a smaller battery pack. Realistically, you probably want to keep your lithium batteries between 40% to 80% to minimize wear. So take a car's maximum range, multiply that by 0.4~0.5(some manufacturers leave some "hidden" capacity for this exact reason), and see if you can work with that.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Hops

I thought of getting was as a kind like a golf cart for driving around town. But even then, how do you even know the condition of the battery without driving from full charged to empty? I've heard they're are ways to evaluate the condition of the battery. Seems like for used ev's, a battery assessment is more important the the miles it has.

These are pretty common in beach cities, resort towns...Low speed limits, street legal...

https://www.e3vehicles.com/

[raptor5244]

Adding a little humor to this thread.

https://www.facebook.com/TheHolderne...5100827295064/

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by shaffe

They are getting better, but a lot of those examples you posted are quite expensive haha.



True for people that own houses it might not be a big deal, but what about the people that live in condos, apartments or high rises that don't have dedicated parking spots? What about the people that live in the outskirts of a city that have houses but have street parking and sometimes have to park 3 blocks away from home?

No doubt. Tesla is trying to get the price down but $39.5k for a Standard Range Plus Model 3 (263 miles on a full charge) is about as cheap as they can get it right now. As the battery tech keeps dropping in price I think a $30k model is possible in the future.

Agreed on the charging challenges in apartment complexes, parking garages, etc. Eventually I imagine building owners will start to install 50 amp circuits that are accessible from the parking spaces or they will negotiate with companies to install Fast/Super chargers. This will take more time. The early adopters right now are those folks with single family homes that can afford a $40k vehicle.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

There are definitely tools built-in to assess that. Some laptops actually have that functionality built-in, for example. My older Lenovo laptops had the Lenovo Vantage app, which can display the battery wear level, while my current Surface Book 3 has a built-in command that can generate a battery report(I think it's Surface family exclusive). For a car, that probably gets integrated as part of the OBD2 port.

If you look at Leaf, there are also studies that show standard-range Leaf has noticeably worse battery wear than long-range Leaf. Batteries hate deep cycling in general, and your depth of discharge, with the same trip, will be worse on a smaller battery pack. Realistically, you probably want to keep your lithium batteries between 40% to 80% to minimize wear. So take a car's maximum range, multiply that by 0.4~0.5(some manufacturers leave some "hidden" capacity for this exact reason), and see if you can work with that.

GM did just that for the original Volt. Bad things happen when you stretch those limits. Part of the reason the EV range was not incredible.

[CHASLT1]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Unless your electrical panel is maxed out it should cost $200 to add a 50 amp breaker and NEMA-50 outlet. You will save that in that month in gas in the first month of ownership. The charger comes included with the car. This will be a transition over time, but most folks that drive 30-50 miles per day will EVs are a non-issue.

Mine was maxed out.


Would have cost $1700 for a new breaker box. I just got a two way NEMA 10-30 cord so i can use a level 2 charger and my dryer without all that BS on a new box and all that crap.


I only drive 50 miles a week so even the slow level one charger was more than i need. I can go a month without charging. I just charge 5 hours every Sunday and it adds $7 more to the power bill. Now with gas prices going out of control i don't see it ever going down again. There is just gonna be more and more reason for it go up.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by CHASLT1

Mine was maxed out.


Would have cost $1700 for a new breaker box. I just got a two way NEMA 10-30 cord so i can use a level 2 charger and my dryer without all that BS on a new box and all that crap.


I only drive 50 miles a week so even the slow level one charger was more than i need. I can go a month without charging. I just charge 5 hours every Sunday and it adds $7 more to the power bill. Now with gas prices going out of control i don't see it ever going down again. There is just gonna be more and more reason for it go up.

I hear you. One other consideration is you can usually deduct the cost of installation on your taxes to help a bit. This is a good article for folks to check out that pretty much sums up what you just said.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtem...h=3d42c9b92705

[90503]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Adding a little humor to this thread.

https://www.facebook.com/TheHolderne...5100827295064/

Good idea...lol...Here's another one..(Hopefully, still just "funny"...lol)

Old video...Prius(EV) vs ICE..??.lol....

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by 90503

Good idea...lol...Here's another one..(Hopefully, still just "funny"...lol)

Old video...Prius(EV) vs ICE..??.lol....

Nice one! Haven't seen Andy Richter in a while.

[digitalfutur]

Originally Posted by 90503

I think at some point this fast-charging on the road will become woefully inadequate, even with a push to get it up asap...

Lines at Costco and other places for gas will pale in comparison to the lines for electricity.

Right now charging is pretty much getting a free ride. Soon, though, when most have to wait in line for a charge, on top of the actual charge time, the party will be over.


The EV Fast Charge station of the not too distant future:

Premium Charge Plug-in....No waiting...... Price....Don't ask...

Mid Grade Charge Plug-in ...30-60 minutes wait for a plug....Price....A lot...

Regular Grade Plug-in....1 hour plus wait for a plug....Price....Lower than the others...

Just sayin' the wait times even out in the boonies for a plug will become a royal pain.

The demand will produce higher costs for convenience...Just a thought.

90% of EV owners charge their vehicles at home. The charging stations are nice to have, but not necessary for day to day driving, even with a long commute. This is all due to better EV efficiency and the corresponding longer range.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by digitalfutur

90% of EV owners charge their vehicles at home. The charging stations are nice to have, but not necessary for day to day driving, even with a long commute. This is all due to better EV efficiency and the corresponding longer range.

This necessarily assumes home ownership, either single-family or duplex/condo dwelling with off-street parking that's preferably under cover.

That lifestyle is out of reach for a great many people, and completely takes the "charge at home" option off the table for them. Now, how does that get resolved with the push to make EVs "for everybody"?


Norm