[hangover]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Neither is practical as a frequently used 4 seater, especially for adults in the backseat.

Adults in the backseat of either would be a nightmare.
A Camaro6 has a backseat for a pet (small dog or cat).
A Mustang has plenty of legroom and is actually comfortable for kids.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by hangover

Sorry but people that buy 100-200k Ferraris, Porsches, GT350R's aren't in the same ballpark as regular Mustang and Camaro buyers. Give me a break.

The Camaro is a 2 seater. The Mustang 4 seater. Whether you admit it or not, that right there kills a % of sales for the Camaro. Ask anyone with 10 year olds to go sit indian-style in a Camaro. Come on man.

And I really like the Camaro 6 - really aggressive looking, smaller (both good and bad), and fast as heck. But I need something semi-practical. If I didn't, I'd jump into a Camaro in a heartbeat.

"The back seats remain strictly for kids, which is a bit disappointing given the Mustang’s 188.3-inch total length—within an inch of a Toyota Camry."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

"Of course, access to the backseat isn't terribly important, anyway, as it remains too tiny for adult use. It might work for pre-teen children."

Read more at http://www.cars.com/ford/mustang/201...rFrjSQLSwQm.99

"The car is not roomy inside, and the back seat is still nigh on useless, but the driving position and visibility have both been improved."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/21/au...rail.html?_r=0


Didn't know seating for kids under 12 was considered a 4 seater. I'm sure their is a huge market for a car only good at transporting kids for a few years.


By that logic the Challenger would outsell both since it has even more room.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by hangover

Wrong. The Mustang has plenty of legroom for kids. The Camaro has none. Deal-breaker for anyone who wants a sporty car and a family.

Well...I'm sorry to say and sound rude...the kids you're dealing with must be freaking huge...because I can fit behind the driver's seat when adjusted to my comfortable driving position. I'm 6'0". It's tight, for sure...tighter than the 5th gen...but there's room.

Furthermore, I've tried to the same with Mustangs at auto shows, and it's no better.

So I can't say I agree with your statements based on my own butt-in-seat experiences.

[AlexM]

I was following this thread for a while, all good points. Majority of the members are narrowing down to a few common possible facts to account for low sales...
One is how the gen6 is PERCEIVED by non enthusiasts, regular car buyers.

On saturday I was driving home with my wife and I did a really slow drive by a Chevy dealer that displayed a gen6 SS very close to the road and said to my wife "Look, I present you the new (gen6) Camaro". She was like "Why is it so small, why they have to make it WORSE? Now it looks like a Civic (meaning small economy car, not performance wise)". "But it packs so much more performance, lighter, faster, new interior" I said. She goes "OK, not Civic, but like in a Lexus small car class then, why do that to a muscle car?". And then I realized a point of view that I could not imagine in a 100 years: this car might be perceived as a common small car, nothing special about it. The larger size of the gen5 might have helped with the better sales, look at the Challenger sales. After all, this is America, lots of Americans are looking for large comfortable vehicle. For us Camaro fun boys it's a great, great performance vehicle, but how is it really perceived by the OTHERS? Because for great sales, you need the others. Camaro fun boys already own a gen5 or other gens and might not be that many who can afford to upgrade, especially with the new high prices.
Just wanted to share this aspect with the community.
I hope it's not like this and the sales will pick up, some serious incentives and ADs would not hurt. Speaking about ADs... the new Transformer Camaro...

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by hangover

Wrong. The Mustang has plenty of legroom for kids. The Camaro has none. Deal-breaker for anyone who wants a sporty car and a family.

Wrong. I own a 13 and buddy has a 15. Can you fit someone back there? Yes. Is it comfortable for anyone? No. The front seats have to be moved up unless the driver or passenger is a midget. This puts the driver in a not so great driving position just so a person can fit back there.. If we talk actual adults, the person will have to bend their neck to fit back there.. Unless of course they are midgets.

If I were worried about putting kids in the back, I'd get an entirely different car.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by AlexM

On saturday I was driving home with my wife and I did a really slow drive by a Chevy dealer that displayed a gen6 SS very close to the road and said to my wife "Look, I present you the new (gen6) Camaro". She was like "Why is it so small, why they have to make it WORSE? Now it looks like a Civic (meaning small economy car, not performance wise)". "But it packs so much more performance, lighter, faster, new interior" I said. She goes "OK, not Civic, but like in a Lexus small car class then, why do that to a muscle car?". And then I realized a point of view that I could not imagine in a 100 years: this car might be perceived as a common small car, nothing special about it. The larger size of the gen5 might have helped with the better sales, look at the Challenger sales. After all, this is America, lots of Americans are looking for large comfortable vehicle. For us Camaro fun boys it's a great, great performance vehicle, but how is it really perceived by the OTHERS? Because for great sales, you need the others. Camaro fun boys already own a gen5 or other gens and might not be that many who can afford to upgrade, especially with the new high prices.
Just wanted to share this aspect with the community.
I hope it's not like this and the sales will pick up, some serious incentives and ADs would not hurt. Speaking about ADs... the new Transformer Camaro...

While no doubt us Americans love our big cars, there is not anyway the car is "small" except after you get inside it. This car longer and wider than a 3 series..it is not small at all. So I find it hard how she thought it was "small car" size from a distance. So no I don't believe that is the cause either.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by AlexM

I was following this thread for a while, all good points. Majority of the members are narrowing down to a few common possible facts to account for low sales...
One is how the gen6 is PERCEIVED by non enthusiasts, regular car buyers.

On saturday I was driving home with my wife and I did a really slow drive by a Chevy dealer that displayed a gen6 SS very close to the road and said to my wife "Look, I present you the new (gen6) Camaro". She was like "Why is it so small, why they have to make it WORSE? Now it looks like a Civic (meaning small economy car, not performance wise)". "But it packs so much more performance, lighter, faster, new interior" I said. She goes "OK, not Civic, but like in a Lexus small car class then, why do that to a muscle car?". And then I realized a point of view that I could not imagine in a 100 years: this car might be perceived as a common small car, nothing special about it. The larger size of the gen5 might have helped with the better sales, look at the Challenger sales. After all, this is America, lots of Americans are looking for large comfortable vehicle. For us Camaro fun boys it's a great, great performance vehicle, but how is it really perceived by the OTHERS? Because for great sales, you need the others. Camaro fun boys already own a gen5 or other gens and might not be that many who can afford to upgrade, especially with the new high prices.
Just wanted to share this aspect with the community.
I hope it's not like this and the sales will pick up, some serious incentives and ADs would not hurt. Speaking about ADs... the new Transformer Camaro...

You need to tell your wife that the 6th gen is roughly the same size, or actually larger than the 4th gen and older Camaros. The Camaro was never a full sized Muscle car. My opinion, but the perception that the Camaro is now a "small" car when it should be larger, is totally backwards. The 5th gen, while I love it, was just big.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

If I were worried about putting kids in the back, I'd get an entirely different car.

^Perfect example of why GM just doesn't "get it". You don't have to get a different car - just get a Mustang. It's the perfect car in the sweet spots that matter: looks GREAT and stands out from any previous gen (a YUGE issue for Camaro6 which to most people looks exactly like Camaro5 - I happen to love the Camaro6 looks), pricing - the Mustang is again in the sweet spot, and size, you can actually fit a family of 3-4 in it 100% comfortably. Oh yeah, and 435HP with a 6-speed manual. Don't get much more fun than that.

Smaller isn't necessarily better. Funny thing, the 135i is smaller and has plenty of legroom as well. The price you pay GM for building a "parts bin" car as an afterthought on another platform. Not very well thought out.

[Mr. Wyndham]

It is astounding how much misinformation can be passed off as fact.....

[Baywire]

Originally Posted by AlexM

I was following this thread for a while, all good points. Majority of the members are narrowing down to a few common possible facts to account for low sales...
One is how the gen6 is PERCEIVED by non enthusiasts, regular car buyers.

On saturday I was driving home with my wife and I did a really slow drive by a Chevy dealer that displayed a gen6 SS very close to the road and said to my wife "Look, I present you the new (gen6) Camaro". She was like "Why is it so small, why they have to make it WORSE? Now it looks like a Civic (meaning small economy car, not performance wise)". "But it packs so much more performance, lighter, faster, new interior" I said. She goes "OK, not Civic, but like in a Lexus small car class then, why do that to a muscle car?". And then I realized a point of view that I could not imagine in a 100 years: this car might be perceived as a common small car, nothing special about it. The larger size of the gen5 might have helped with the better sales, look at the Challenger sales. After all, this is America, lots of Americans are looking for large comfortable vehicle. For us Camaro fun boys it's a great, great performance vehicle, but how is it really perceived by the OTHERS? Because for great sales, you need the others. Camaro fun boys already own a gen5 or other gens and might not be that many who can afford to upgrade, especially with the new high prices.
Just wanted to share this aspect with the community.
I hope it's not like this and the sales will pick up, some serious incentives and ADs would not hurt. Speaking about ADs... the new Transformer Camaro...

Maybe it's because of the perception that people have with the 5th Gen, however the Camaro6 is actually on par size wise with the majority of cars in it's class (Lets call it Performance Coupe Class since this list will show models all within a couple inches of each other). Mustang, M4, C63, Nissan GT-R, Aston Martin DB9 are just a few that come to mind. These models are all in the center of sizing for sports cars. There are smaller and larger both domestic and import.

Now what I suppose is unfortunate is that the Civic does look similar. And that you compare the Camaro as a "Civic" when they came out at the same time. (Adding all the angular cuts to the exterior) But the fact she went straight to the Civic is sad for Camaro. Though debadged you'd never mistake the two side by side. (Fun fact, new gen of Civic doesn't debut in Japan for 2 years, found that by doing some quick research about the timing of the new gen civic)

On the topic of advertisements, I finally saw a youtube ad for the Camaro 6 phone app. Def made me happy to see that they have one ad out there.

On the new Transformers Camaro, I actually really like... the majority of it. The front fascia is actually really awesome, the part they screwed up on (and if you fixed it the car would look like a super car) is the band across the grill in black. They made all these additions to the car with the front fascia and then they recess the grill and it kills the look. If they kept it the color of the car and extended it outward it would be an aggressive beast. But right now it looks like one of those expensive cats with breathing problems.

I think a wrap/paint would fix the whole face punched in aspect of it. The ground effects though, totally nailed it IMO. Fender vents suck cause they wasted all that space on a Autobots logo. Should have moved vent down to make it taller and move the Autobots logo up. I would like to see more shots of the hood though, cause if at some point you can buy that hood, it looks like it has some awesome aggressive venting going on.

[90503]

...compact...pony....mid-size....full-size.....

The Camaros squeezed in between the compact and mid-size models as a pony-car....

Older mid-sized cars like Chargers and Chevelles look huge today....Actual full size cars are long gone....

...Yes, the 5thGen was much larger than the others, and somewhat of an odd-ball size...

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by hangover

^Perfect example of why GM just doesn't "get it". You don't have to get a different car - just get a Mustang. It's the perfect car in the sweet spots that matter: looks GREAT and stands out from any previous gen (a YUGE issue for Camaro6 which to most people looks exactly like Camaro5 - I happen to love the Camaro6 looks), pricing -the Mustang is again in the sweet spot, and size, you can actually fit a family of 3-4 in it 100% comfortably.Oh yeah, and 435HP with a 6-speed manual. Don't get much more fun than that.

Smaller isn't necessarily better. Funny thing, the 135i is smaller and has plenty of legroom as well. The price you pay GM for building a "parts bin" car as an afterthought on another platform. Not very well thought out.

No, you can't. I haven't had anyone sit in the back of my car not bitch about lack of space. My brother got out immediately as he couldn't fit and was feeling claustrophobic.. So we fit a 5'8 person back there and they were both uncomfortable for the 15 minute drive.

[aestil]

Originally Posted by hangover

Sorry but people that buy 100-200k Ferraris, Porsches, GT350R's aren't in the same ballpark as regular Mustang and Camaro buyers. Give me a break.

The Camaro is a 2 seater. The Mustang 4 seater. Whether you admit it or not, that right there kills a % of sales for the Camaro. Ask anyone with 10 year olds to go sit indian-style in a Camaro. Come on man.

And I really like the Camaro 6 - really aggressive looking, smaller (both good and bad), and fast as heck. But I need something semi-practical. If I didn't, I'd jump into a Camaro in a heartbeat.

This is laughable. Neither the Mustang or the Camaro can fit an adult human in the rear behind another adult human without making the person in the back feel like they are being tortured. No legroom/headroom in either vehicle unless you're 5'2" or so.

Originally Posted by hangover

^Perfect example of why GM just doesn't "get it". You don't have to get a different car - just get a Mustang. It's the perfect car in the sweet spots that matter: looks GREAT and stands out from any previous gen (a YUGE issue for Camaro6 which to most people looks exactly like Camaro5 - I happen to love the Camaro6 looks), pricing - the Mustang is again in the sweet spot, and size, you can actually fit a family of 3-4 in it 100% comfortably. Oh yeah, and 435HP with a 6-speed manual. Don't get much more fun than that.

Smaller isn't necessarily better. Funny thing, the 135i is smaller and has plenty of legroom as well. The price you pay GM for building a "parts bin" car as an afterthought on another platform. Not very well thought out.

You are obviously just trolling.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by hangover

^Perfect example of why GM just doesn't "get it". You don't have to get a different car - just get a Mustang. It's the perfect car in the sweet spots that matter: looks GREAT and stands out from any previous gen (a YUGE issue for Camaro6 which to most people looks exactly like Camaro5 - I happen to love the Camaro6 looks), pricing - the Mustang is again in the sweet spot, and size, you can actually fit a family of 3-4 in it 100% comfortably. Oh yeah, and 435HP with a 6-speed manual. Don't get much more fun than that.

Smaller isn't necessarily better. Funny thing, the 135i is smaller and has plenty of legroom as well. The price you pay GM for building a "parts bin" car as an afterthought on another platform. Not very well thought out.

What We Don't:

"To fit the rear-facing infant seat, we had to move the front passenger seat all the way forward.
The Mustang's rear seats have large bolsters that caused our booster seat to sit at an angle. Also, the rear seats are narrow and our booster sat right up against the seat belt buckle, complicating access. Legroom will likely be a problem for kids in this seat."

Read more at https://www.cars.com/articles/2014/1...XTOOwJ9wuzE.99

Please continue to post, you are continuing to disapprove your own assumption.