[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

.2 seconds is significantly quicker accelerating? No automotive journalists got lower than a 11.12 1/4 mile with the GT500. The ZR1 like times seem to be coming from some random Youtubers. And in real world pricing, you are paying at least 80K for the base GT500 compared to a low 60's ZL1 Auto.



I have no doubt it is a good track car as I expect it to be with such a late release and all that time to fine tune the driving dynamics. The 18K track package will deliver. Although comparing it to GT2 RS is excited rhetoric.



I'm surprised that he is surprised. Ford can build performance cars. The GT350 was a teaser of what's to come. And with an asking price of 95,000 for the GT500 CFTP, we were all expecting it to perform really well on the track. Although my premise still stands, they need to drive up the costs significantly and spend an extra 5 years to fine tune the driving dynamics of the car to hide the weaknesses of the inferior chassis.



I don't need to, 3800 LB ZLE vs 4175 GT500 CFTP. S550 chassis is inferior to the Alpha seen in the Camaro. Ford needed to do a lot of work and needed a lot of time, and needed to drive up the costs of the car to match or beat the ZLE in track performance.



At $95,000 and 5 extra years of fine tuning, it will beat it's more affordable competitor dating back to 2016. And yes, much of the car community value 1/4 mile times over anything else. Thus Ford give it more power while pairing it with a drag mode to achieve those times. All whilst inviting journalists to an drag strip to emphasize this.

I value acceleration but 1/4 mile it is not a priority for me. Chevy could make a drag mode and put a DCT to achieve same times with much less power. It's all about hooking up on a well prepped surface. I personally don't care for it. So I don't see the value in the GT500.

You're almost as bad as Blaq. The GT500 traps 133 mph. It ran a 10.89 @ 130 mph with a 4,100' DA on an uphill track. It ran 10.61 @ 133.2 mph with a DA of 975' in Florida. Who cares what Ford programmed to achieve those times (i.e., Drag modes, etc.). It's there, for $74k, vs. the ZL1 auto for $66k. Trap speed is a good indicator of the acceleration potential. Most likely the corrected magazine reviews will show similar trap speeds, but at a higher e.t. 133 mph vs. 125 mph. Not that close.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

You're almost as bad as Blaq. The GT500 traps 133 mph. It ran a 10.89 @ 130 mph with a 4,100' DA on an uphill track. It ran 10.61 @ 133.2 mph with a DA of 975' in Florida. Who cares what Ford programmed to achieve those times (i.e., Drag modes, etc.). It's there, for $74k, vs. the ZL1 auto for $66k. Trap speed is a good indicator of the acceleration potential. Most likely the corrected magazine reviews will show similar trap speeds, but at a higher e.t. 133 mph vs. 125 mph. Not that close.

Yeah, well, I don't trust Ford's traction control system enough to accelerate to such speeds on public streets.

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Better value because it's only $8k more than an auto ZL1 yet significantly quicker acceleration. Assuming the base model holds its own on a track, it's a $74k car that accelerates harder than any other car this side of a ZR1, which starts at around $125k.

Read Motor Trend's review for one perspective of it's track capabilities. I linked it a few pages ago and again below. The glowing review was based on the track prowess of the CFTP version. The dude finished his track time and was speechless, his mind was blown. C&D and MT both compared it to a Porsche 911 GT2 RS for Pete's sake, and not because of the acceleration. MT called it a supercar and one of the best sports cars in the world, without a caveat on price. The ZLE is no doubt great, but the CFTP may be just as great, or better, we'll see. Here's the opening of the article:

""My gawd," was the first thing, the only thing I could say after hot-lapping the 760-horsepower 2020 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 on a track. "What a thing!" (C'mon, Walton, pull yourself together, use proper descriptors.) "I mean, a helluva thing, a monster!"

I was literally a few words shy of speechless, the Shelby GT500 was such a revelation. Like the mid-engine 2020 Corvette does, this American icon pushes the limits, and the Europeans, to the edge of what we once thought possible. I don't write glibly when I say it is both a sobering and enthusiastic realization."

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...es-everything/

The CFTP tires are actually the same width in the front (305) and narrower in the rear (315 CFTP vs 325 ZLE) compared to the ZLE. So they are not wider tires, assuming you meant wider than the ZLE.

I highly doubt it could be clear to you which will be the better balanced car if you haven't driven both of them.

To most people, drag racing and acceleration capabilities are more important than road course capabilities. So in their mind, the GT500 is clearly the top dog. On a track with turns, that remains to be seen, but Billy Johnson has already said on video the car will beat its competitors on a track. I don't know why he would say that if it wasn't true.

You keep saying things that are NOT true, please cut it out!!!

Its NOT a 8k difference!!
its a 30k DIFFERENCE

I paid 58k for my ZL1 A10 and If I price a GT500 with MY options its 88k.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

You keep saying things that are NOT true, please cut it out!!!

Its NOT a 8k difference!!
its a 30k DIFFERENCE

I paid 58k for my ZL1 A10 and If I price a GT500 with MY options its 88k.

I'm just talking msrp. Nice find getting an A10 ZL1 for $58k. That's a lot of car for the money.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Anyway, guys, I think I've said all I need/want to say about the GT500 for now. I'm starting to feel like a broken record.

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I'm just talking msrp. Nice find getting an A10 ZL1 for $58k. That's a lot of car for the money.

But Idaho, that's the thing in a nutshell, most of us here didn't pay MSRP. A lot of us paid what I paid give or take 2 or 3k.
It's not like I got a great deal, its kind of normal. I'm not disputing times and HP with you at all. I'm just saying the new GT500 is kind of a tough sell to a ZL1 guy. Price gap is pretty significant for a "pony car". Until 2020 the prices for the 13/14 zl1 and gt500 was very close so you can buy what you want. NOW its a different ball game, its almost like Ford is saying FU to the ZL1 and is going after the C8 price wise. How can you cross shop a ZL1 and GT500? Price is way off.
/end of rant, LOL

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

You're almost as bad as Blaq. The GT500 traps 133 mph. It ran a 10.89 @ 130 mph with a 4,100' DA on an uphill track. It ran 10.61 @ 133.2 mph with a DA of 975' in Florida. Who cares what Ford programmed to achieve those times (i.e., Drag modes, etc.). It's there, for $74k, vs. the ZL1 auto for $66k. Trap speed is a good indicator of the acceleration potential. Most likely the corrected magazine reviews will show similar trap speeds, but at a higher e.t. 133 mph vs. 125 mph. Not that close.

And you're just as bad as every gloating Mustang owner who came over here to brag after a new Mustang is released. Get one thing straight, the 10.6 that you cling to was a private session run on a private track with undisclosed methods used. Now you can play dumb all you want and act like Evans is the same as a MT or C&D run. But it isn't. In fact I bet you that if you asked what he did to make those runs he would not disclose all his methods. If you count his runs against anything it would be the fast list. He is an individual person hired by Ford. He is not an official source like MT is.

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

But Idaho, that's the thing in a nutshell, most of us here didn't pay MSRP. A lot of us paid what I paid give or take 2 or 3k.
It's not like I got a great deal, its kind of normal. I'm not disputing times and HP with you at all. I'm just saying the new GT500 is kind of a tough sell to a ZL1 guy. Price gap is pretty significant for a "pony car". Until 2020 the prices for the 13/14 zl1 and gt500 was very close so you can buy what you want. NOW its a different ball game, its almost like Ford is saying FU to the ZL1 and is going after the C8 price wise. How can you cross shop a ZL1 and GT500? Price is way off.
/end of rant, LOL

He and every other Mustang guy wants to ignore the markups on the GT500 as well as the discounts on the ZL1. Except for when newmoon is talking shit about the ZL1 and praising the Shelby. Then they acknowledge it all day.

Fact of the matter is that not one GT500 is going to sell at MSRP. They will have markups or some other type of payment assessment that will tack on $10K or more to the price. They started doing so months ago. There were dealerships selling the allocations for $10K in some cases and then selling the car at MSRP. Other dealerships were requiring their customer sign contracts with the ADM written in the price. So regardless of MSRP the car is going to sell for at least $10K over it. Once a few options are thrown in you will see Base GT500s in the $90K+ range. MSRP does not matter if you cannot get the car for that price.

And even at MSRP the GT500 is still way more expensive. $10K more for what is about a 3-4 tenths of a second difference counting the Evans run against the fast list. That is a horrible fcuking deal. And the CF version is slower. SO how the hell is the GT500 such a bargain when the Base version is $10K more than a ZL1 but only about 3 tenths faster, and the CF version is $30K more yet is slower than the Base version. If the Base version is such a great deal, then the CF version has got to be the worst deal in history because it is $20K more than the Base but is actually slower. That makes no damn sense whatsoever. And this is what these people are raving like lunatics about?

[BlaqWhole]

I went to visit my Hellcat guys to see what the buzz is over there and as usual they did not disappoint. Someone pointed out that something on that single time slip looks suspect.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The dealer who I just purchased my GT350 from sold their GT500 base allocation at MSRP + $2,500.00. No where near 100k. The CF models will command the big ADMs just as the GT350R did, the base models will be much more reasonable.

Congratulations. Your second Ford track car!

I know you’re coming from a straight line performance preference. That’s what “everyone wants” and “no one tracks” a car.

Are you buying only as a collector’s interest or are you into the driving dynamics?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I went to visit my Hellcat guys to see what the buzz is over there and as usual they did not disappoint. Someone pointed out that something on that single time slip looks suspect.

Ok...I’ll bite. What’s “suspect” about the slip. Nothing seems out of order to me. If it’s the date, we all know that Evan did his 10.6 / 133 run at an earlier date and kept it under embargo. So besides the date, what’s the issue?

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

It is impressive to you. In your opinion. Don't try to tell me that I should be impressed with it. I'm not. And that is in my opinion. I don't care what Evans does in that car just like I didn't care what he did in the 18 GT. He impresses me even less.

Sure the GT500 will outrun a C8 Z51...up until 180 MPH that is. After which the Vette will catch up, walk past it, disappear in front of it, and the GT500 will never be seen again. But see one at a light and the $94K CF GT500 will get utterly embarrassed by a $65K Corvette!!

The reviews talked about how well it handles on the road. But again, that is only in the opinions from the reviewers. There is no data at this point on how well it actually performs on a track. I don't care how well they say it is on track, until they post the numbers their opinions and $1 is worth a Snickers bar.

I'm glad you're excited. Good for you. Personally, I don't care about any cars I don't own or don't plan to own. If you're that happy for the GT500 then you do you. But don't sit here thinking I'm gonna do the Blue Oval song and dance with you. The GT500 does not impress me one bit.

$87K MSRP. But you're not going to get one at MSRP. Which is a shame. I actually wanted one and held out for one. I was going to add it to my ZL1 and HC. But the price disappointed me. And the dealerships already started adding markups months ago. It became a lottery. If you wanted one you had to get in contact with a dealership selling one and hope you got to them early enough to buy the allocation. Most allocations were sold separately from MSRP and are not getting deducted from the MSRP. So that is $5K to $10K down the drain already. On top of that some dealerships were also adding a markup. So that is an extra $5K to $10K. At that point your chances of getting on another list are slim to none. If you did get lucky enough to get on a second list then you'd have to worry if they had markups too and if those markups were higher than the previous dealership's. So a lot of people dropped out from the list. But these cars are all still going to sell and the dealerships WILL get their markups. Some already had contracts signed up to $20K weeks to months ago, lol!!

...the most likely scenario...

You didn't own up and you still haven't. I don't care what you meant because I can't read minds. I posted exactly what you said. If you meant something different than what you said then that is your fault. And regardless of what you were told, you commented on something that you had no proof of and behaved as if it was etched in granite by Moses. I expressed my doubts which I had every right to and you started trash talking. I don't care who says it ran 10s at that time. There was absolutely no proof posted anywhere that it did. You took their word for it because you are a Mustang fan and that is fine. I am not a Mustang fan. Yet you think your doubts and opinions are the only ones that matter.


No I didn't because I couldn't care less what a reviewer has to say about a car they'll drive a handful of times and never again. They can sing it's praises to high heavens and to me it is just a stranger's opinion.


Price, availability, performance. The only data you have for the GT500 is that it costs $74K MSRP, it's top speed is 180, and that it is faster in the quarter mile. You have nothing other than that except some rabid reviewer who pretty much is frothing at the mouth. The ZL1 has a 202 MPH top speed with an official top speed of 198 MPH. It has track times out. And it can be had at MSRP of $64K or below MSRP based on "heavy discounts" like newmoon likes to say. If you want a ZL1 you can buy one. On the other hand, face it, you are not getting a GT500 any time soon. So based on all the info we have available right now, the ZL1 is superior.

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

I wont mention names, LOL
HOLY CRAP, what world do you people live in where a car that costs 90K is considered affordable???? OMFG

It's not 90k its 73k.

[newmoon]

[QUOTE=Idaho2018GTPremium;10650643]4,170 lbs for the base. I haven't seen a weight for the track pack version.

Based on the reviews I'm not so sure the ZL1 is the better balanced car; only time and some H2H analysis will tell if the ZL1 will feel more balanced. For $74k and the performance it brings, my opinion is the GT500 is the better value. And of course I think the Mustang looks much better.

I don't know what to say to those who keep saying the people who have driven this car and written about it are only praising it for the 1/4 mile times. That's not even remotely the case. The CFTP car has been praised for its handling, balance, and on track attributes. Most of the write-ups have been based on that car on the track, since that is the trim Ford provided for the track portion of the press.

The strip portion is just the start of the bad news for them. Based on early comments the car is going to be a terror on the track and outstanding on the street. And its starts at 73k. Should be fun.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The strip portion is just the start of the bad news for them. Based on early comments the car is going to be a terror on the track and outstanding on the street. And its starts at 73k. Should be fun.

The bad news will be when they line it up next to a C8 and it doesn't get the Evans special treatment and it gets beaten. Even more bad news will come when it meets the ZLE on track and gets curb stomped into oblivion.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

The cftp gt500 will be an awesome handling car for sure, especially for a 4000 pound boat but in general also. Even if it doesn't beat the zl1 1le it'll still be praised, and it's not out of the question that it could beat it. The base will be good for sliding around all over the place.