[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by hotlap

That's the weird part. The ZL1 beat the R at everything and lost because it wasn't raw. It's a ZL1! It's not supposed to be raw. Ya know, the triple treat thing. So what was the point?

Yes it's funny that they've wanted the pony cars to mature, but they pick the GT350R for its boisterous immature personality. Again I hate inconsistency!

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Chevy had engineers there and they only adjusted tire pressure, be reasonable.

If you read the article, they were working on the a10 because it was slower then the m6. They kept changing tire pressure until it did beat the m6. But the m6 did the time with no reference to any GM tuning. That's all I'm saying. The a10 got the work, not the m6.

[90503]

I would think they downplayed the track "win" for the ZL1 because it didn't require the ZL1 1LE to beat Mustang's track car....If sound, rawness, etc., are the 350R's winning attributes, those will get also get surpassed by the 1LE, not to mention the lap times for the ZL1 1LE will be the big headline....

It's a softball win for the Mustang, and based on the subjective views of magazine talking head "experts"....Most of whom all parrot each other in order to sound smart.

Lap times and track performance are just too difficult for their supposed expertise to explain away....The ZL1 1LE at the track will be out of their league...

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by 2SS 1LE

The ZL1 beat the GT350R around a track and in a straight line. The ZL1 is a GT car.
Sounds to me like the Chevy GT car beat the Ford track car and that the Chevy track car will destroy the Ford track car.
Seems like a good synopsis of the video and a massive win for chevy.

I hate all the hype about the GT350R engine. The GT350R LITTERALLY has the worst flatplane crank engine currently in production and the ZL1LITTERALLY has the best OHV engine currently in production.

If you like the flatplane that is cool, but it is not special.

Everyone keeps puffing their chests that the ZL1 beat the GT350R. Is this really a surprise? It has 124 more horsepower and 221 more lbft of torque, what the heck were you all expecting. It seems like the only claim to fame you guys are throwing out is, the ZL1 (which was designed and tuned for the track by the way) beat Fords current high end track mustang. They aren't even true competetors, we can only match them together as they are the latest high end offerings. The ZL1 really matches up to the GT500 (both supercharged)...which doesn't exist for the current chassis.

Are you guys huffing out your chests that the ZL1 can beat a scatpack challeneger, Dodges highest NA v8?

As for the flatplane, I don't need you to think it's special. I think it is, as does a huge part of the car enthusiast community. It's among the highest revving V8's currently in production and the largest flatplane by displacement. Did for really need to make it? Nope, but I can respect their balls to attempt it...and it has rewarded it's owners with a magnificent tone and experience.

As for chevy having the "best" OHV currently in production, the hellcat packs quite the 6.2L engine for chrysler...I'm sure they would fight you tooth and nail over that argument.

[hotlap]

.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

If you read the article, they were working on the a10 because it was slower then the m6. They kept changing tire pressure until it did beat the m6. But the m6 did the time with no reference to any GM tuning. That's all I'm saying. The a10 got the work, not the m6.

That's what was reported...engineers were there during all that testing with Randy to ensure the cars were at their optimum, you gotta know things were messed with before they ever got to the A10's tire pressure.

Remember the Z06 that was tested? They sent no engineers and it failed big time. For the next Z06 tested they sent a group...It performed very well.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

That's what was reported...engineers were there during all that testing with Randy to ensure the cars were at their optimum, you gotta know things were messed with before they ever got to the A10's tire pressure.

Remember the Z06 that was tested? They sent no engineers and it failed big time. For the next Z06 tested they sent a group...It performed very well.

I'm sure most test have engineers there. You think these guys bought that R just to do a head to head with the zl1? You bet Ford and GM were there.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

I'm sure most test have engineers there. You think these guys bought that R just to do a head to head with the zl1? You bet Ford and GM were there.

Possibly (remember the Z06).. and the fact is for the first ZL1 test "much" time was spent extracting every ounce out of it. H2H's are for 2 cars not just one with only a few laps performed with each by Randy.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Everyone keeps puffing their chests that the ZL1 beat the GT350R. Is this really a surprise? It has 124 more horsepower and 221 more lbft of torque, what the heck were you all expecting. It seems like the only claim to fame you guys are throwing out is, the ZL1 (which was designed and tuned for the track by the way) beat Fords current high end track mustang. They aren't even true competetors, we can only match them together as they are the latest high end offerings. The ZL1 really matches up to the GT500 (both supercharged)...which doesn't exist for the current chassis.

Are you guys huffing out your chests that the ZL1 can beat a scatpack challeneger, Dodges highest NA v8?

As for the flatplane, I don't need you to think it's special. I think it is, as does a huge part of the car enthusiast community. It's among the highest revving V8's currently in production and the largest flatplane by displacement. Did for really need to make it? Nope, but I can respect their balls to attempt it...and it has rewarded it's owners with a magnificent tone and experience.

As for chevy having the "best" OHV currently in production, the hellcat packs quite the 6.2L engine for chrysler...I'm sure they would fight you tooth and nail over that argument.

There is a lot more to running fast laps at a track than horsepower. The Hellcat has more power than both of these cars and still can't match their lap times around the track. The scatpack isn't even in the same league as these cars on the track so I don't know why you bring it up. You want to compare the GT500 but that couldn't lap with the last generation of Camaro which is why Ford answered with the GT350R. To get a pony car in the line-up that had some real track savvy.... yet it can't hang with the new ZL1 on the track.

The Hellcat has a very good engine but Dodge has never been able to keep up with Chevy and Ford in chassis dynamics and suspension. That's why you never see a Challenger in any of these racetrack comparos...they get slaughtered. I like the GT350, for a while if you actually wanted to bring a factory pony car to the local road course and run laps it was king.....but from what this comparison shows that is no longer the case. The mustang may be more entertaining to drive but the Camaro is going to be faster around the track. I kind of like passing other cars when I'm on the track so to me, despite what motortrend thinks, the ZL1 is the more logical choice.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

I think it is comical that people put so much weight on track times achieved by professional drivers.

A car that is really hard to drive could put up a blazing lap with Randy Pobst behind the wheel, but be a death machine for normal people.

Just because car A is faster than car B in the hands of a pro doesn't necessarily mean it's the best, or most fun, car.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

There is a lot more to running fast laps at a track than horsepower. The Hellcat has more power than both of these cars and still can't match their lap times around the track. The scatpack isn't even in the same league as these cars on the track so I don't know why you bring it up. You want to compare the GT500 but that couldn't lap with the last generation of Camaro which is why Ford answered with the GT350R. To get a pony car in the line-up that had some real track savvy.... yet it can't hang with the new ZL1 on the track.

The Hellcat has a very good engine but Dodge has never been able to keep up with Chevy and Ford in chassis dynamics and suspension. That's why you never see a Challenger in any of these racetrack comparos...they get slaughtered. I like the GT350, for a while if you actually wanted to bring a factory pony car to the local road course and run laps it was king.....but from what this comparison shows that is no longer the case. The mustang may be more entertaining to drive but the Camaro is going to be faster around the track. I kind of like passing other cars when I'm on the track so to me, despite what motortrend thinks, the ZL1 is the more logical choice.

That's just it, the GT350R isn't the followup to the GT500...it's more of a followup to the Boss 302 laguna seca. The fact of the matter is, Ford doesn't currently have a car that matches up with the ZL1 lineup on the S550 chassis....that will be what the GT500 is meant for.

To think that Fords NA V8 can even compete with chevy's FI V8 is a testament to how much ford nailed the GT350R setup.

As of right now, Ford has the NA track king and GM has the FI track king. If you want to pit them against each-other, OK...but let's not pretend they will match up in every facet. The lighter NA car is going to handle better in the corners, and the blistering fast FI car is going to shred it on the straights.

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

I think it is comical that people put so much weight on track times achieved by professional drivers.

A car that is really hard to drive could put up a blazing lap with Randy Pobst behind the wheel, but be a death machine for normal people.

Just because car A is faster than car B in the hands of a pro doesn't necessarily mean it's the best, or most fun, car.

I firmly believe most would drive the ZL1 quicker around a track. I don't think it would be as fun as ripping around in the GT350 screaming at 8000RPM, but it would likely be quicker for most armatures.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Everyone keeps puffing their chests that the ZL1 beat the GT350R. Is this really a surprise? It has 124 more horsepower and 221 more lbft of torque, what the heck were you all expecting. It seems like the only claim to fame you guys are throwing out is, the ZL1 (which was designed and tuned for the track by the way) beat Fords current high end track mustang. They aren't even true competetors, we can only match them together as they are the latest high end offerings. The ZL1 really matches up to the GT500 (both supercharged)...which doesn't exist for the current chassis.

Are you guys huffing out your chests that the ZL1 can beat a scatpack challeneger, Dodges highest NA v8?

As for the flatplane, I don't need you to think it's special. I think it is, as does a huge part of the car enthusiast community. It's among the highest revving V8's currently in production and the largest flatplane by displacement. Did for really need to make it? Nope, but I can respect their balls to attempt it...and it has rewarded it's owners with a magnificent tone and experience.

As for chevy having the "best" OHV currently in production, the hellcat packs quite the 6.2L engine for chrysler...I'm sure they would fight you tooth and nail over that argument.

You sound mad as ufck, lol!! If they aren't even natural competitors, then why are you soo up in arms and getting upset and challenging everything everyone says? Natural competitors or not, the test was pitting Ford's best against Chevy's best and the ZL1 beat the snot outta the GT350R in every performance category. If it were the other way around you'd be here talking trash instead of being mad that everyone is calling out Ford for losing. The GT500 you keep talking about is MIA and nobody knows when or even IF it'll be out. As of right now at best all you can hope for is that it comes out in 2019. And like I said, the Z28 might be out by then...as if we really need it. And if the GT500 comes out, you won't have it selling side by side with the GT350 while we'll have the ZL1, ZL1 1LE, AND the Z28. Against what? The GT500 and the GT? Thats a laugh.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

I think it is comical that people put so much weight on track times achieved by professional drivers.

A car that is really hard to drive could put up a blazing lap with Randy Pobst behind the wheel, but be a death machine for normal people.

Just because car A is faster than car B in the hands of a pro doesn't necessarily mean it's the best, or most fun, car.

That's one of the things that makes these new Camaros so amazing. Go to the road course section of this forum and watch some of the down loaded video from the data recorders of some not so professional drivers and you can see that despite the lack of finesse they are putting to shame some pretty amazing cars. The new Camaro chassis is so good you don't have to be a pro to go really fast. The mustang GT350R actually has better tires than the ZL1 but the Camaro chassis balances the equation despite the extra weight. I really love this gen6 car.

You have to have something for reference and most viewers would rather see what the pros do with the car instead of an average joe. I think it would be interesting to see what lap times everyone on the team could run. I agree that would give a better idea of how usable the car is at the track for most people but in this particular instance I don't think the Camaro is only better in the hands of the pro.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

It seems like the only claim to fame you guys are throwing out is, the ZL1 (which was designed and tuned for the track by the way) beat Fords current high end track mustang. They aren't even true competetors, we can only match them together as they are the latest high end offerings. The ZL1 really matches up to the GT500 (both supercharged)...which doesn't exist for the current chassis.

So in one sentence, the ZL1 "was designed and tuned for the track"...and then in the very next sentence, the ZL1 and GT350R (which is a track car) "aren't even true competitors"?? LOL. Face it dude, you're fighting a losing battle. And your argument about being underpowered has no leg to stand on. The GTR has been underpowered for years and still kicks everyone's ass in just about every category. The GT350R is designed for the track. And it can't even beat the ZL1 which, according to you, is designed for the track but not a true competitor. You're taking this loss very hard man.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Are you guys huffing out your chests that the ZL1 can beat a scatpack challeneger, Dodges highest NA v8?

Funny how the Dodge will beat the GT but it can hang with the SS. What can the GT actually beat? Oh, the R/T...

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

As for the flatplane, I don't need you to think it's special. I think it is, as does a huge part of the car enthusiast community. It's among the highest revving V8's currently in production and the largest flatplane by displacement. Did for really need to make it? Nope, but I can respect their balls to attempt it...and it has rewarded it's owners with a magnificent tone and experience.

As for chevy having the "best" OHV currently in production, the hellcat packs quite the 6.2L engine for chrysler...I'm sure they would fight you tooth and nail over that argument.

Stop preaching about that flat plane crank nonsense man. There are plenty of engines that were special in their time. Did they get recognized for that? Hey when was the last time a Viper won a comparo based on the fact that it has an 8.4 V10? Tell you what, that engine is a heck of a lot more impressive and "special" than that BS you're praising.

And he meant the best OHV in GM pal...get it right.