[collinms]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

No Mustang guy thinks their stock '18 GT A10 is as fast as a stock ZL1. The '18 GT A10 traps 118-120 mph in the 1/4 mile, and we all know the ZL1 traps 124-126 mph. A full bolt on A10 '18 GT could probably trap around 123-125 mph with the right conditions.

Mustang owners see all these YouTube videos with twin turbo 5.0 engines and then think it's their car. Just go look at the comment sections on those videos. It gets exhausting. Most of those people drive like a 1994 mustang gt but act as though they drive a new 1000hp mustang.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by newmoon

You can ramble on all you want but it doesn't change the facts. Presently the SS and ZL1 are, or soon will be the slowest of all three manufacturers offerings. When is the 7th Gen due?

SS is slower than GT? In what world ? Lol

And what's the 1320? Scat pack with drag radials? That has no relevance in the comparison. Drag radials on an A10 SS will beat it. The regular SS competes with the GT and Scatpack. M6 SS is faster than the M6 GT. A10 is about a tie.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

"slowest of all three manufacturer's offerings" were your exact words. Ford does offer THE slowest in their manual Mustang GT.

I know why you dont want to talk about that car though, so let's say the intention was to say "Slowest in a straight line of all three manufacturer's FASTEST offerings".....fair enough.....carry on hahahaha.

Still not right... you have to get very specific.

...Ford doesn't have the fastest at anything YET.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by collinms

https://www2.motorauthority.com/news...g-shelby-gt500

Ouch...

That comment (in the link) is a loser's statement. I used to race a guy who every time before we raced either said something was wrong with his car or that he wasn't really trying to beat on his car that night. So if he lost he didn't look bad and if he won then he looked even better. Ford got this statement out which to me is insurance so that if the GT500 doesn't hit it's mark, then they'll be spared humiliation. But lets see...over 700 HP, DCT 7 speed, 6 years in development...why the hell would they think that anyone would believe such a bullshit statement??

Originally Posted by hotlap

Are you referring to the GT or a GT* compared to the SS?

This is typical Ford. A specific combination that can is quoted by all the guys that own the version the is compromised

* GT, A10, PP, Michelin PS, 3.55 in drag race mode

Yup!!

Originally Posted by ST1LE

"slowest of all three manufacturer's offerings" were your exact words. Ford does offer THE slowest in their manual Mustang GT.

I know why you dont want to talk about that car though, so let's say the intention was to say "Slowest of all three manufacturer's FASTEST offerings".....fair enough.....carry on hahahaha.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

You're delusional if you think that GM never has to counter what Ford Performance does. It took Chevy 4 years to match the acceleration of the 2013 GT500 (traps 126 mph in the 1/4 mile with massively tall gearing). You have conveniently forgotten to mention that. Isn't that about what the 2019 ZL1 and Hellcat are trapping? By your logic, the 2013 GT500 was ahead of its time in power/acceleration. As I mentioned before, it also took Chevy a year or two to respond to the GT350R with the ZL1, the GT350R being a faster track car than the Z28 (the 5th Gen ZL1 wasn't even close). Yes, it's taken them some time, but Ford is now responding to the ZL1 and I believe the ZLE with the new Shelby GT500.

I agree that with the GT vs SS, Ford has been playing a lot of catch up, no argument there. But they finally did catch up, to a high bar set by Chevy for the mid-level performance car. And we're all better off for the competition, because I have a car that I love, and wouldn't have bought if Ford remained satisfied with the '15-17 S550 performance. But with regard to the halo models, it's been back and forth.

Let's go Gen by Gen. Cliff notes...

5th Gen:
-11 GT had to catch up to the 10 SS.
-13 GT500 was catching up to the 12 ZL1.
-15 GT350 was catching up to the 14 Z28. Which we all agree was a stupid and foolish errand on Ford's part.

6th Gen:
-18 GT had to catch up to the 16 SS.
-18 GT PP2 had to catch up to the 17 SLE. And even at that it wasn't available until after the 2nd half of 2018.
-2020 GT500 has to catch up to the 17 ZL1. Will it match the ZLE? Until it does the ZLE will remain the fastest.

Did I miss anything??

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

No Mustang guy thinks their stock '18 GT A10 is as fast as a stock ZL1. The '18 GT A10 traps 118-120 mph in the 1/4 mile, and we all know the ZL1 traps 124-126 mph. A full bolt on A10 '18 GT could probably trap around 123-125 mph with the right conditions.

Actually...there were several Mustang guys on here (FCFB is one of them) who constantly tried to say that a GT with bolt ons or a GT with this or that was faster than a ZL1. But in each of these scenarios the GT was able to have mods and the times were from YT videos but the ZL1 was always stock and they compared times from the magazines...

Originally Posted by collinms

Mustang owners see all these YouTube videos with twin turbo 5.0 engines and then think it's their car. Just go look at the comment sections on those videos. It gets exhausting. Most of those people drive like a 1994 mustang gt but act as though they drive a new 1000hp mustang.

"Simple" bolt-ons this and that. Blower and you're in the 10s. I've seen many a supercharged GT at my local track when I was going. You know what they all ran? Mid to low, sometimes low, 11s. But...they all did like 1 run, then sat with ice on the blower for like an hour, then did another run...then sat for a while again and missed 2 or 3 runs. Etc...

If I can find this video I have of a PD supercharged 17 GT running 11.5s all night then I'll post it on YT and put the link on here.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by mlee

Still not right... you have to get very specific.

...Ford doesn't have the fastest at anything YET.

Good catch Mike! I usually use the word QUICKEST when talking 1/4 mile to avoid confusion with fast track times. Thanks for clarifying for me!!

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

That comment (in the link) is a loser's statement. I used to race a guy who every time before we raced either said something was wrong with his car or that he wasn't really trying to beat on his car that night. So if he lost he didn't look bad and if he won then he looked even better. Ford got this statement out which to me is insurance so that if the GT500 doesn't hit it's mark, then they'll be spared humiliation. But lets see...over 700 HP, DCT 7 speed, 6 years in development...why the hell would they think that anyone would believe such a bullshit statement??



Yup!!



Let's go Gen by Gen. Cliff notes...

5th Gen:
-11 GT had to catch up to the 10 SS.
-13 GT500 was catching up to the 12 ZL1.
-15 GT350 was catching up to the 14 Z28. Which we all agree was a stupid and foolish errand on Ford's part.

6th Gen:
-18 GT had to catch up to the 16 SS.
-18 GT PP2 had to catch up to the 17 SLE. And even at that it wasn't available until after the 2nd half of 2018.
-2020 GT500 has to catch up to the 17 ZL1. Will it match the ZLE? Until it does the ZLE will remain the fastest.

Did I miss anything??

Yeah, you missed the earlier versions of the GT500 that the '12 ZL1 was made to respond to. 2007 GT500 (where was the Camaro?) had 500 hp. 2010 GT500 had 540 hp. 2011 GT500 was 550 hp. The 2011 Shelby GT500 ran VIR at 2:58, faster than many true sports cars of its time, M3, Viper SRT-10, Porsche GT3, Audi R8 V10...pretty interesting.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Yeah, you missed the earlier versions of the GT500 that the '12 ZL1 was made to respond to. 2007 GT500 (where was the Camaro?) had 500 hp. 2010 GT500 had 540 hp. 2011 GT500 was 550 hp. The 2011 Shelby GT500 ran VIR at 2:58, faster than many true sports cars of its time, M3, Viper SRT-10, Porsche GT3, Audi R8 V10...pretty interesting.

In all fairness, GM put the 5th Gen out in 2010 (obviously) and the industry standard is to put the specialty models out a year or two later. So GM put the ZL1 out in 2012 which is again, typical for what manufacturers do. And it was 580 HP to the GT500's 550. Also it had IRS to the GT500'S ancient-ass solid rear axle. Plus it came standard with features that had to be optioned in on the GT500. So it DID in fact answer to the GT500 and one-upped it in many ways. And it had an available A6 trans, sunroof, and other features that were not available for the GT500 AT ALL, lol!! So again, the 13 GT500 was playing catch up to the 12 ZL1...and then the GT500 disappeared for 6 years...

[Bosse'sBoss]

Originally Posted by collinms

Ford says they have no interest in lap times for the Gt500... Weird, seems like a red flag. Demon style.

I find this very interesting.

On '11 Mustang focused more to the track, with their Brembo track pacage option, then on '12 the BOSS came out, also considered a track monster. On '13 the Shelby GT500 came out, and the only thing that keep it behind after several laps, was overheating of the brake fluid. The Camaro Zl1 was a more rounded sport car, even that it was slower than the 600+ HP Shelby beast.
Again on '15 Ford brings out the Shelby GT350R and its main focus was the track.

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Yeah, you missed the earlier versions of the GT500 that the '12 ZL1 was made to respond to. 2007 GT500 (where was the Camaro?) had 500 hp. 2010 GT500 had 540 hp. 2011 GT500 was 550 hp. The 2011 Shelby GT500 ran VIR at 2:58, faster than many true sports cars of its time, M3, Viper SRT-10, Porsche GT3, Audi R8 V10...pretty interesting.

I think there's something you're not understanding, what BlackWhole is trying to say is that when GM (Camaro or Corvette) raise the bar and outperform the competition (which is usually significantly), they do not seek to do anything until the Next Generation. It's called "Do it right the first day and you will not have to improve it the following week"

Obviously Camaro responds, but does not have to do it several times during their respective generation (and we talk about responding by increasing horsepower or other technical changes), Reasons? Martin mentioned them yesterday.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

Aja, And when Ford is in the same situation because Chevrolet raised the bar, and lasts a long time in answering what are you going to say?

Ford is no longer the fastest. That was hard.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by collinms

https://www2.motorauthority.com/news...g-shelby-gt500

Ouch...

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

That comment (in the link) is a loser's statement. I used to race a guy who every time before we raced either said something was wrong with his car or that he wasn't really trying to beat on his car that night. So if he lost he didn't look bad and if he won then he looked even better. Ford got this statement out which to me is insurance so that if the GT500 doesn't hit it's mark, then they'll be spared humiliation. But lets see...over 700 HP, DCT 7 speed, 6 years in development...why the hell would they think that anyone would believe such a bullshit statement??
?

You may be right Blaq, but Ford has NEVER(at least to my knowledge and in the recent generations) published lap times. They have never used that as a markting tool like GM has. Never did it with the BOSS, GT350R, 04 Ford GT, current GT, Focus RS, It's jsut not something they do. They have always let the media take care of that apsect for them.

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

I think there's something you're not understanding, what BlackWhole is trying to say is that when GM (Camaro or Corvette) raise the bar and outperform the competition (which is usually significantly), they do not seek to do anything until the Next Generation. It's called "Do it right the first day and you will not have to improve it the following week"

Obviously Camaro responds, but does not have to do it several times during their respective generation (and we talk about responding by increasing horsepower or other technical changes), Reasons? Martin mentioned them yesterday.

What he said. I am curious to see what would happen if in Bizaro world when the 7th gens come out, if it was the other way around and the GT dominated the SS, if GM would alter their approach

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Ford is no longer the fastest. That was hard.

They aren't the fastest right now but you seem to have a difficult time admitting it.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

I think there's something you're not understanding, what BlackWhole is trying to say is that when GM (Camaro or Corvette) raise the bar and outperform the competition (which is usually significantly), they do not seek to do anything until the Next Generation. It's called "Do it right the first day and you will not have to improve it the following week"

Obviously Camaro responds, but does not have to do it several times during their respective generation (and we talk about responding by increasing horsepower or other technical changes), Reasons? Martin mentioned them yesterday.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand this theory but it also can put you in an awkward position being locked into power updates only at new Gen models. Ford failed badly with the 15-17 GT across the board, taking a step backwards IMO, but corrected that in 2018, and may again with another power bump in 2020 to Bullet power numbers. Who knows where Dodge stands but they are due for a 6.4L power bump as well, and there are persistant rumors of a 426 ci.

Most talk has the 7th Gen debut in 2021, that is a long way off. I guess there is no right/wrong way to handle this.