[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Mark R

As far as break-in, I couldn't agree more. A hard break in is vital to having an engine that does not burn oil.

Nope, not at all.

[KingLT1]

The engines are already "pre broke in" at GM before you purchase the vehicle. All the end user is doing is finishing the back end of the break-in process. Now when you put a new never ran engine in a vehicle there is procedure that should be followed. It involves using a break-in oil, starting engine and holding rpm at 2500-3000rpm until up to temp. Then load cycle the engine. Dyno makes this easier but can be done on the street by taking the engine up to 4k rpm or so then decelerate on the engine in the same gear... repeating several times. Use different gears for different loads. Change oil at 500 miles and send it.

[arpad_m]

I broke in the engine the same way King is suggesting above, changed the oil at 500 and then both oil and diff fluid at 1500, and never had any issues with power or oil consumption. I have a catch can as well, it doesn't collect much, which makes sense (but even then I'm glad that gunk doesn't go back in the engine, whether or not it would burn off completely).

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

People are likely just following the owners manual break-in procedures which was designed by the engineers that made the vehicle. For what its worth, I was gentle with mine during break in and I don't have any oil usage or other issues. I think my rings are seated just fine.

Again, manufacturers default to conservative cya because they don't want you going to the drag strip right out of the showroom. However, it's extremely well documented (dyno proven) that a relatively aggressive break in, periodic hard throttle and cool down cycles, is vastly superior to droning down the freeway. I've broken in at least 40 engines and seen plenty of dyno tests, 90% of breakin occurs in the first 10 heat cycles, it has very little to do with x miles.

"Just follow what the engineers say" is the same blind argument BMW E92 owners STILL use to justify 10W-60 motor oil. Engineers are humans. Actual science and data prevails

How much blowby are you getting every 3-5k miles? Have you run a compression check?

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

Again, manufacturers default to conservative cya because they don't want you going to the drag strip right out of the showroom. However, it's extremely well documented (dyno proven) that a relatively aggressive break in, periodic hard throttle and cool down cycles, is vastly superior to droning down the freeway. I've broken in at least 40 engines and seen plenty of dyno tests, 90% of breakin occurs in the first 10 heat cycles, it has very little to do with x miles.

"Just follow what the engineers say" is the same blind argument BMW E92 owners STILL use to justify 10W-60 motor oil. Engineers are humans. Actual science and data prevails

How much blowby are you getting every 3-5k miles? Have you run a compression check?

Car is making good power, in fact it put down one of the highest whp figures that Vengeance Racing had seen in a stock ZL1 when I had my baseline dyno done there. I doubt compression is an issue.

Engineers are people but LOTS of testing went into the testing of these vehicles so I agree that data science and data prevails. If a mistake was discovered after the vehicle was released, there would be updated guidance on how to break-in the vehicle but that's not the case here with the ZL1 platform and as history has shown, these cars are quite reliable following the recommended break-in procedures. These aren't BMW's which aren't known for reliability.

[ShockingZ]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Car is making good power, in fact it put down one of the highest whp figures that Vengeance Racing had seen in a stock ZL1 when I had my baseline dyno done there. I doubt compression is an issue.

Engineers are people but LOTS of testing went into the testing of these vehicles so I agree that data science and data prevails. If a mistake was discovered after the vehicle was released, there would be updated guidance on how to break-in the vehicle but that's not the case here with the ZL1 platform and as history has shown, these cars are quite reliable following the recommended break-in procedures. These aren't BMW's which aren't known for reliability.

And with that, you have proved the no catch can is needed theory. Why would you need one then if the normal break in period recommended by GM will give you a reliable service life? Are we assuming the engineers didnt plan for any type of oil consumption and we are smarter and know better?? No we are not, and no we dont know better.

Remember, the great debate ender here is that only a small subset of owners of these cars are enthusiast like we are, obsessing over oils and spark plug gaps and so on. The majority of these cars are in the hands of joe and jane and they dont care what oil jiffy lube puts in and are lucky if they even get an oil change in the 3-5k range let alone earlier or after break ins. And you dont hear about mass failures of vehicles all over the country due to joe and jane doe not using catch cans on their daily driven camaros.

We as enthusiasts get ourselves all isolated like we are the only ones that own these cars and seem to know better than the engineers that designed and tested them, or the hundreds of thousands of non enthusiast owners that drive them 10x or 20x more miles then we ever will, without a problem.

[Mark R]

Originally Posted by ShockingZ

And with that, you have proved the no catch can is needed theory. Why would you need one then if the normal break in period recommended by GM will give you a reliable service life? Are we assuming the engineers didnt plan for any type of oil consumption and we are smarter and know better?? No we are not, and no we dont know better.

Remember, the great debate ender here is that only a small subset of owners of these cars are enthusiast like we are, obsessing over oils and spark plug gaps and so on. The majority of these cars are in the hands of joe and jane and they dont care what oil jiffy lube puts in and are lucky if they even get an oil change in the 3-5k range let alone earlier or after break ins. And you dont hear about mass failures of vehicles all over the country due to joe and jane doe not using catch cans on their daily driven camaros.

We as enthusiasts get ourselves all isolated like we are the only ones that own these cars and seem to know better than the engineers that designed and tested them, or the hundreds of thousands of non enthusiast owners that drive them 10x or 20x more miles then we ever will, without a problem.

This is tiresome.

Some enthusiasts on this forum take great care of their ZL-1s, cherish them, and want the best performance and longevity from their cars. Therefore, some install catch cans. The cans actually catch oil vapors and other goo that would have been introduced into the supercharger. Fact. That goo deposits on the back of the intake valves and inside the supercharger. Fact.

As far as the GM engineers go, I don't trust them very much. They are responsible for signing off on the the oil pumps in this engine. Big fail. Also, engineers never get everything they want in a car, because the bean counters tell them to cut corners.

If YOU don't want a catch can, not one person here has a problem with that. It's your car. Do as you wish. Why do you care if others here have catch cans on their cars? Do you critique other's wheel choices, tire choices, modifications, etc?

Also, don't conflate engine break-in with catch cans. Catch cans collect engine blow-by. Break-in does the obvious. However, it is common knowledge that a long and gentle break-in will eventually lead to oil consumption, but that usually happens long down the road. A "firm" break-in will lead to an oil tight engine for life. Don't want to break in your engine like some of us do? Then don't. Follow the advice of GM.

But let's leave the catch can shaming off the forum.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by ShockingZ

And with that, you have proved the no catch can is needed theory. Why would you need one then if the normal break in period recommended by GM will give you a reliable service life? Are we assuming the engineers didnt plan for any type of oil consumption and we are smarter and know better?? No we are not, and no we dont know better.

Remember, the great debate ender here is that only a small subset of owners of these cars are enthusiast like we are, obsessing over oils and spark plug gaps and so on. The majority of these cars are in the hands of joe and jane and they dont care what oil jiffy lube puts in and are lucky if they even get an oil change in the 3-5k range let alone earlier or after break ins. And you dont hear about mass failures of vehicles all over the country due to joe and jane doe not using catch cans on their daily driven camaros.

We as enthusiasts get ourselves all isolated like we are the only ones that own these cars and seem to know better than the engineers that designed and tested them, or the hundreds of thousands of non enthusiast owners that drive them 10x or 20x more miles then we ever will, without a problem.

Nope, you either misunderstood or misinterpreted my statement to fit into your own agenda. Catch cans have always been beneficial in DI engines and even more so in a boosted engine. GM does not include a catch can from the factory because its another additional maintenance piece that the average consumer would likely forget to service properly and it could cause potential issues if the can is not emptied and fills up. And, GM would have to worry about customers that empty them and claim the the amount of oil they catch is excessive thus wanting something done about it because someone else on the internet says theirs doesn't catch as much. Surely you can see the potential for liability here, GM sure does so they just let the excess oil go right back into your intake manifold and intercooler bricks so that it can be burned up in the combustion process. I'd rather not have that excess oil in my intake manifold or on the intercooler bricks.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Car is making good power, in fact it put down one of the highest whp figures that Vengeance Racing had seen in a stock ZL1 when I had my baseline dyno done there. I doubt compression is an issue.

Engineers are people but LOTS of testing went into the testing of these vehicles so I agree that data science and data prevails. If a mistake was discovered after the vehicle was released, there would be updated guidance on how to break-in the vehicle but that's not the case here with the ZL1 platform and as history has shown, these cars are quite reliable following the recommended break-in procedures. These aren't BMW's which aren't known for reliability.

Weird, your dyno tuner said that to you too huh?

[Mark R]

Originally Posted by clg82

Weird, your dyno tuner said that to you too huh?

LOL!! Right up there with, "you're the best and biggest I've ever had, baby!"

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by clg82

Weird, your dyno tuner said that to you too huh?

No, he showed it to me and was quite surprised. No reason to lie about it, the baseline doesn't matter as much as the net result after the mods. I thought everyone knew this.

[Mark R]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

No, he showed it to me and was quite surprised. No reason to lie about it, the baseline doesn't matter as much as the net result after the mods. I thought everyone knew this.

It was a joke.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Mark R

It was a joke.

No worries, I wasn't responding to your joke. I got it.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by Mark R

LOL!! Right up there with, "you're the best and biggest I've ever had, baby!"

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

No, he showed it to me and was quite surprised. No reason to lie about it, the baseline doesn't matter as much as the net result after the mods. I thought everyone knew this.

WTF kinda tuner you going too?