[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Depends on your goals, that's a lot of coin (4X more) for a 2650R if you're not looking to achieve 900-1000whp+. The stock ported blower and lower pulley is more than good enough to achieve up to 900whp for a lot less money.

It is not a lot of coin for people who want to do things the right way the first time and not have to worry about overheating or losing performance to high temps. Obviously heat is an issue with a ported blower and a pulley. Nobody on here is stupid enough to argue that it isn't. That is a small ass 1.7 liter blower that already had to be revised in order to be efficient on a stock ZL1/Z06. It is already being spun close to it's max. Can you spun it more? Sure. Are people claiming it can make "900 RWHP" or whatever? Sure. Is it efficient or reliable? Hell no. Now if the OP is looking to drive the car only every now and then and possibly take it to the track once or twice a year for a couple runs then fine. But outside of that I would not waste money on that stock blower. If money is an issue then don't mod at all. Plain and simple. Or go with a 2.3 liter aftermarket blower instead of a 2650. Or opt for the cheaper Whipple 2.9 liter blower. Or wait a couple years and save money. But there will be a big difference in performance and longevity between someone trying to be cheap and force a small blower to push more than it should and work inefficiently or someone who spent a little more money for a completely efficient setup that works very well and has much more potential and isn't squeezing every last ounce of power out while dealing with heat soak.

For the record, most shops can do a complete build for somewhere around $15K or less. This would include upgraded blower, cam, ported heads, install, etc...give or take a few items. And you wouldn't even have to think about heat soak. And you could sell your stock system if you wanna absorb some of the cost. It isn't much. And most likely you'll be in the 800+ RWHP range on pump gas. E85 or race gas would net even more. And you'd be nowhere close to maxing out that setup.

But to each their own. Do whatever you want. I've had my ZL1 for 4 years now and am finally deciding to go with extensive mods. And I got a very decent deal for the setup I am going with. It is simple, easy, no pushing this to it's max or worrying about heat or trying to string out "900" HP. If someone wants to go that route tho then good luck. And I hope they don't eventually want more because then all that money on porting and strapping it to it's max will have been a waste.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by JSH

This is the most popular topic at this site, so let's all try to be more precise.

When I said "my build", here it is:

Custom valve train
PP heads
FII blower spacer plates & thermal reduction blanket
Kong ported blower/snout
NW 103mm ported TB
Griptec snout pulley ( 2.4)
10% lower pulley
MMS mild catch can
DSX low side pump
Kooks Long tubes
Hi-flow cats
Custom heat exchangers
RotoFab
104UL @ $9.85/Gal
ECM Tune/dyno

It may or may not make 825whp, we'll see in April.

Back to your comment, and others here know more than I on these topics, but here's KaTech's 2650 pkg. pump gas numbers:

KaTech G6 Camaro ZL1 Stage 5
• Roto fab Intake
• Supercharger Pulley
• Lower Pulley
• CNC Headwork
• Springs
• Lifters
• Camshaft
• 103mm Throttle Body
• Magnuson 2650
Power Target: 925BHP/785whp
Starting at: $22,000.00

And my build will cost you something like $20-26,000

Those numbers seem a little low to me. Especially at that price.

Originally Posted by DrBlockHed

Thanks for sharing this. My goal Whp is 700ish. So for now, I should be fine with port work and a pulley. The added cost of a 2650 at that point is 6k or so, I believe.

My suggestion is to not think you'll be satisfied at any specific HP number. I thought that and I was wrong. I spent a couple thousand dollars on my HC doing a pulley/dyno tune with upgraded injectors thinking 750-ish to the wheels would be enough for me. I am at 766 RWHP and right now the car feels slow since I am used to it. If I had known better, I would have just went bigger the first time. But now I will be taking it back to the shop to get some more mods which kinda means the pulley/tune I just did was a waste of money. It wasn't a lot of money. But a waste regardless. Most likely you will not be satisfied with a setup that is strung out at 700-ish RWHP. I have seen quite a few ZL1 owners who went the port/pulley route initially just to realize that it wasn't enough.

The thing about all this is...if you port pulley the stock blower, then there is no more room to grow and when you want more your only option will be to ditch the blower that you dumped money into. At least with an upgrade, in the case that you want more in the future, they can just expand on what you already have. It is way more efficient and has way more potential and that is always the goal for modding. Think about it. What is better...a setup at it's max pushing 700 RWHP and having to resort to using meth and E85 and race gas and needing some company to port the life out the blower and all these other combinations? Or a setup making 800+ RWHP easily on pump gas only and still having room to grow?

Now if you are on a budget then do whatever works best. If not then you are better off shooting a little higher.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

It is not a lot of coin for people who want to do things the right way the first time and not have to worry about overheating or losing performance to high temps. Obviously heat is an issue with a ported blower and a pulley. Nobody on here is stupid enough to argue that it isn't. That is a small ass 1.7 liter blower that already had to be revised in order to be efficient on a stock ZL1/Z06. It is already being spun close to it's max. Can you spun it more? Sure. Are people claiming it can make "900 RWHP" or whatever? Sure. Is it efficient or reliable? Hell no. Now if the OP is looking to drive the car only every now and then and possibly take it to the track once or twice a year for a couple runs then fine. But outside of that I would not waste money on that stock blower. If money is an issue then don't mod at all. Plain and simple. Or go with a 2.3 liter aftermarket blower instead of a 2650. Or opt for the cheaper Whipple 2.9 liter blower. Or wait a couple years and save money. But there will be a big difference in performance and longevity between someone trying to be cheap and force a small blower to push more than it should and work inefficiently or someone who spent a little more money for a completely efficient setup that works very well and has much more potential and isn't squeezing every last ounce of power out while dealing with heat soak.

For the record, most shops can do a complete build for somewhere around $15K or less. This would include upgraded blower, cam, ported heads, install, etc...give or take a few items. And you wouldn't even have to think about heat soak. And you could sell your stock system if you wanna absorb some of the cost. It isn't much. And most likely you'll be in the 800+ RWHP range on pump gas. E85 or race gas would net even more. And you'd be nowhere close to maxing out that setup.

But to each their own. Do whatever you want. I've had my ZL1 for 4 years now and am finally deciding to go with extensive mods. And I got a very decent deal for the setup I am going with. It is simple, easy, no pushing this to it's max or worrying about heat or trying to string out "900" HP. If someone wants to go that route tho then good luck. And I hope they don't eventually want more because then all that money on porting and strapping it to it's max will have been a waste.

Thats a wall of text but doesn't change the fact that it's way more expensive to go with the 2650R over a ported stock blower when most people aren't chasing the power numbers that its designed for.

[Camaro1973]

I've said it before and ill say it again. These cars with the tiny blower heat soak stock when its hot out. Everyone seems to think heat soak is going into limp mode etc. Its not. The stock blower MAT temps are through the roof on hot days, it simply has inferior cooling. People running this thing at higher power levels past 750 usually run meth, ice tanks etc. Its not just about HP numbers, its about efficiency as well. Hook up your hp logger, log your MAT temps and watch your timing get pulled all over the place. The 2650 isnt just about numbers, its just a superior blower with superior cooling abilities. Compare any build with the same engine mods, heads, cam headers etc. Only thing different would be stock blower vs the 2650 and look at the difference youll get in real world, not 2 pulls on a dyno. My stock blower in summer heat was a dog, 145+ F temps all the time or higher. The 2650 in 40F cooler and when in boost the temps drop, not go up.


If you can afford the 2650 its just a far superior blower then to mess with the stock heat pump.

[Camaro1973]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

It is not a lot of coin for people who want to do things the right way the first time and not have to worry about overheating or losing performance to high temps. Obviously heat is an issue with a ported blower and a pulley. Nobody on here is stupid enough to argue that it isn't. That is a small ass 1.7 liter blower that already had to be revised in order to be efficient on a stock ZL1/Z06. It is already being spun close to it's max. Can you spun it more? Sure. Are people claiming it can make "900 RWHP" or whatever? Sure. Is it efficient or reliable? Hell no. Now if the OP is looking to drive the car only every now and then and possibly take it to the track once or twice a year for a couple runs then fine. But outside of that I would not waste money on that stock blower. If money is an issue then don't mod at all. Plain and simple. Or go with a 2.3 liter aftermarket blower instead of a 2650. Or opt for the cheaper Whipple 2.9 liter blower. Or wait a couple years and save money. But there will be a big difference in performance and longevity between someone trying to be cheap and force a small blower to push more than it should and work inefficiently or someone who spent a little more money for a completely efficient setup that works very well and has much more potential and isn't squeezing every last ounce of power out while dealing with heat soak.

For the record, most shops can do a complete build for somewhere around $15K or less. This would include upgraded blower, cam, ported heads, install, etc...give or take a few items. And you wouldn't even have to think about heat soak. And you could sell your stock system if you wanna absorb some of the cost. It isn't much. And most likely you'll be in the 800+ RWHP range on pump gas. E85 or race gas would net even more. And you'd be nowhere close to maxing out that setup.

But to each their own. Do whatever you want. I've had my ZL1 for 4 years now and am finally deciding to go with extensive mods. And I got a very decent deal for the setup I am going with. It is simple, easy, no pushing this to it's max or worrying about heat or trying to string out "900" HP. If someone wants to go that route tho then good luck. And I hope they don't eventually want more because then all that money on porting and strapping it to it's max will have been a waste.

This ^^^^^^^

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Camaro1973

I've said it before and ill say it again. These cars with the tiny blower heat soak stock when its hot out. Everyone seems to think heat soak is going into limp mode etc. Its not. The stock blower MAT temps are through the roof on hot days, it simply has inferior cooling. People running this thing at higher power levels past 750 usually run meth, ice tanks etc. Its not just about HP numbers, its about efficiency as well. Hook up your hp logger, log your MAT temps and watch your timing get pulled all over the place. The 2650 isnt just about numbers, its just a superior blower with superior cooling abilities. Compare any build with the same engine mods, heads, cam headers etc. Only thing different would be stock blower vs the 2650 and look at the difference youll get in real world, not 2 pulls on a dyno. My stock blower in summer heat was a dog, 145+ F temps all the time or higher. The 2650 in 40F cooler and when in boost the temps drop, not go up.


If you can afford the 2650 its just a far superior blower then to mess with the stock heat pump.

I don't think anyone is questioning whether the 2650R is superior, no one. I think its just a matter of a person's goals and amount of money they want to invest.

My .02, stick with the stock ported blower until you max out the fueling, IF you need to go beyond that and need to upgrade the cam and any additional fueling, its time to swap the blower.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

1. Those numbers seem a little low to me. Especially at that price.
2. If I had known better, I would have just went bigger the first time.

Comments

1. The KaTech mods, bhp, and price come from their site. And I've exchanged email with them on these topics. My costs are mine.

2. I agree in part with going bigger the first time, which is why I did a custom valve train and headers as my first set of mods. Other than porting my blower, all other mods would go with a future 2650 if I become so motivated.

My take is that the OP probably has a smaller budget to stay within as most people do. After all, a ported blower is very popular, and hopefully the FII items help the heat soak problem.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by JSH

So, w/o knowing the exact specs such as fuel lobe, it's basically the same build as mine will be except I'll run 104UL at the track versus meth, but I'm thinking only 825whp at this point.

The only thing comparable is that they both are heads/cam. Too many other variables to claim "same build". My guess is your combo will be high 9 second @ 140 capable in decent air.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

The only thing comparable is that they both are heads/cam. Too many other variables to claim "same build". My guess is your combo will be high 9 second @ 140 capable in decent air.

I specifically mentioned not knowing the specs and didn't claim same build. I was simply ballparking the topic. But, as usual, I appreciate your input because you know these cars a lot better than I.

[Revalot]

I always like the more for your money scenario, I'm in the middle of moving before long, But after listening to you guys, The better way is 2650R, cam and headers, plus a tune, and your good to go.
Kind of like my LQ4 chevelle, LS headers are $700 plus, I'm like $700 for 20 horsepower ! Not bad, but I can buy a Borg warner turbo for $700, So I just purchased two for the car, and both equal 1000 + horsepower ! More for the money ! LOL!!!!

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Revalot

I always like the more for your money scenario, I'm in the middle of moving before long, But after listening to you guys, The better way is 2650R, cam and headers, plus a tune, and your good to go.
Kind of like my LQ4 chevelle, LS headers are $700 plus, I'm like $700 for 20 horsepower ! Not bad, but I can buy a Borg warner turbo for $700, So I just purchased two for the car, and both equal 1000 + horsepower ! More for the money ! LOL!!!!

That's the combination if you're going with a cam and/or additional fueling.