[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by AndyUK

You are isolating an single statement and implying it means something that it doesn't. If you read all of the material available from GM on break in procedure it fills in the blanks.

There's a break in manual specifically for the LT1 engine.
It does not contradict that text from the camaro manual.

You will note that the camaro manual says avoid full throttle starts and abrupt stops, it does not say to avoid full throttle at all times.

It seems some people can't understand plain English. They assume "avoid full throttle starts" means "baby the throttle", but it doesn't.

The engine needs load to bed in correctly, the LT1 engine break in manual is very explicit in requiring part and full throttle runs (up to 4000rpm and with in gear rundown) as being the correct procedure.

If you drive the whole of the first 1500 miles with less than 50% throttle then you'll end up with a motor thats not sealed as good as it could be and down on power.
Given the hundreds of dollars people seem to be willing to spend to gain 5 to 10hp, taking the 5 minutes to find and read the engine break in manual doesnt seem too difficult.

Credit to Matt for posting these, please note that these do NOT contradict the chevrolet camaro manual instructions, they are just more detailed. The youtuber in the video has made the same mistake and assumed the wrong thing about what the Corvette/Camaro instructions actually mean.;

Brilliant post!

The Chevrolet Performance Parts LT1 PDF [on page 10] is an easy enough step-by-step that the average enthusiast should be able to follow it.

The Clif Notes is like this:
*warm up engine near idle RPM
*varying loads for 30 miles of driving, no WOT or redline. That literally means figures like 75% throttle and 5500 RPM are within acceptability and necessary for "varying loads". Transients OK, sustained high RPM are not-OK.
*consistent 50% throttle pulls to 4k RPM
*WOT pulls to 4k and engine braking to idle
*You should have maybe 32 miles by this point. Oil and filter change. UOA for data
*Drive it normally for 500 miles, but no camping at redline and no track-days, then another oil and filter change and UOA.

-->Remember! By the time you've taken delivery of your car the engine has already gone through the majority of its break-in with just a few miles on the odometer. Doing the above procedure is good practice, but it's also not required or rigid.


LT1 Break-in PDF

[DenverTaco07]

Wow, break in theories again...

FUN!!!

anyone want to do 9MM vs. 45 Auto?

[Corner carver]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Brilliant post!

The Chevrolet Performance Parts LT1 PDF [on page 10] is an easy enough step-by-step that the average enthusiast should be able to follow it.

The Clif Notes is like this:
*warm up engine near idle RPM
*varying loads for 30 miles of driving, no WOT or redline. That literally means figures like 75% throttle and 5500 RPM are within acceptability and necessary for "varying loads". Transients OK, sustained high RPM are not-OK.
*consistent 50% throttle pulls to 4k RPM
*WOT pulls to 4k and engine braking to idle
*You should have maybe 32 miles by this point. Oil and filter change. UOA for data
*Drive it normally for 500 miles, but no camping at redline and no track-days, then another oil and filter change and UOA.

-->Remember! By the time you've taken delivery of your car the engine has already gone through the majority of its break-in with just a few miles on the odometer. Doing the above procedure is good practice, but it's also not required or rigid.


LT1 Break-in PDF

If this is what you're refering to as a 'hard break in' then I'd also be in this camp... I thought you more ment jumping on the throttle from a stand still, dropping the clutch, taking it to the redline ect. This is a great break in procedure
Mind you i think i was about 1500km before changing my oil out...

[mattyb65]

[paul84043]

Originally Posted by pdiddy972

It's equally likely that bean counters know that more cars will make it past the warranty period with a gentle breakin. Assuming their goals of saving on warranty expenses align with your goals of maximum HP and not burning oil is overly optimistic.

Ding, ding, ding.... Winner.

It's all about the lawyers and getting a car to "live" just outside of the warranty period.

Most of these manufacturers think that losing a full quart of oil a month is completely acceptable as well.
Please explain to me how a well broken in and seated motor should ever be using that much oil.

They don't care, they simply want to avoid as many warranty costs as possible.

[Obzen]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Wow, break in theories again...

FUN!!!

anyone want to do 9MM vs. 45 Auto?

HA

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by AndyUK

You are isolating an single statement and implying it means something that it doesn't. If you read all of the material available from GM on break in procedure it fills in the blanks.

There's a break in manual specifically for the LT1 engine.
It does not contradict that text from the camaro manual.

You will note that the camaro manual says avoid full throttle starts and abrupt stops, it does not say to avoid full throttle at all times.

It seems some people can't understand plain English. They assume "avoid full throttle starts" means "baby the throttle", but it doesn't.

The engine needs load to bed in correctly, the LT1 engine break in manual is very explicit in requiring part and full throttle runs (up to 4000rpm and with in gear rundown) as being the correct procedure.

If you drive the whole of the first 1500 miles with less than 50% throttle then you'll end up with a motor thats not sealed as good as it could be and down on power.
Given the hundreds of dollars people seem to be willing to spend to gain 5 to 10hp, taking the 5 minutes to find and read the engine break in manual doesnt seem too difficult.

Credit to Matt for posting these, please note that these do NOT contradict the chevrolet camaro manual instructions, they are just more detailed. The youtuber in the video has made the same mistake and assumed the wrong thing about what the Corvette/Camaro instructions actually mean.;

"12. Change the oil and filter. Again, inspect the oil and oil filter for any foreign particles to ensure that the engine is functioning properly.

I skipped the oil-and-filter change in step 10, but did the one in step 12. I was at 700 miles when I did that one. Next oil change will be a the normal interval."

Therein lies the problem with using the crate engine break in procedure. The service schedule for the cars does not state changing the oil before the OLM systems recommends or 1 year (whichever comes first). Most dealers won't even change it before then period. So if we believe the owners manual process was wrote to avoid legal claims, then why not recommend a oil/filter change during break in like the crate engines? Surely there is a reason for the difference. And analysis of oil from break in on these cars (as well as most nowadays) shows no reason to change the oil early. So the facts do not match what many people believe. Could it be that the crate engines and production engines are built differently? I know I'd like to hear the reasoning behind the differences.

Personally I changed oil right at 1500 because I wanted to switch to Mobile 1. And I did follow the similar procedure on break in. But I don't think anyone can say the crate engine process is 100% correct for production cars. Because if there is one difference, there are likely more too.

[mt3130]

Is it possible that GM does the first part before the engine leaves the factory for production vehicles? Aren't most cars delivered with a handful of miles on them already, making this scenario at least plausible?

I ask because I read a discussion a while back on a forum for Challengers, and someone noticed that a DIC screen showed a top driven speed of like 180 mph right from the factory. Someone else with knowledge of the inner workings at the FCA engine facility mentioned that the SRT engines went on a dyno and were broken in prior to delivery, and that the recommendations in the manual were mostly for other driveline components to break-in.

[AndyUK]

Originally Posted by mt3130

Is it possible that GM does the first part before the engine leaves the factory for production vehicles? Aren't most cars delivered with a handful of miles on them already, making this scenario at least plausible?

I ask because I read a discussion a while back on a forum for Challengers, and someone noticed that a DIC screen showed a top driven speed of like 180 mph right from the factory. Someone else with knowledge of the inner workings at the FCA engine facility mentioned that the SRT engines went on a dyno and were broken in prior to delivery, and that the recommendations in the manual were mostly for other driveline components to break-in.

Watching the video of how they built the 5th gen camaro, they certainly didn't do it with the 5th gen. Even if it was already done at the factory, doing another short WOT stint is not going to do any damage and remember, the manual says no WOT from a stop, not no WOT at all, so why not have a bit of fun in the process. All it means is that the oil change at 30ish miles is not needed if it has already been done, doing other 50% throttle or more to 4000rpm still falls under the remit of doing "varying load and rpm".

I have asked the question, will see if / what sort of answer I get.

What I can tell you is that when Honda CRV's and Civics roll off the production line, the brakes have already been burnished (I helped deploy the software in the UK), they've been run on a rolling road for about 10 minutes that checks various functions of the engine and braking system, and the car is then run round a short test track basically with the drivers foot planted to the floor before being parked up waiting to go on a vehicle transporter. I saw this happen dayin dayout for weeks at a time. The Honda's manual says to avoid all full throttle operation for the first 600 miles. And no, they don't get their oil changed either.

[camaromatt.s]

These threads come up over and over again and it's always the same result. Some people think you should do a hard break in and others think you should follow the manufacturers recommendation. Each side always seems to bring up valid points for their chosen method and it's not something that's ever likely to be resolved.

I would like to know how much it even matters though? What's at risk if your break in procedure is less than optimal? It seems people have had success with both methods and I haven't seen any large number of failures linked to break in procedures.

[DisturbedSS]

Its such a short and easy break in period, steps spelled out in black and white in the cars owners manual - yet debated like Congress in forums.

Whats so hard about waiting to drive like a WOT fool until after 1500 miles??...LOL

I tracked my 0 mile Camaro from the the car carrier to detailing. Break in period -OVER!-

[nbryant]

I personally think the real question here how many of those that feel the hard break in is fine will own their cars in 4-5 years? I would venture to say that it would likely be that the majority probably will not and will be moving on to another version or something else all together. Some of us that have no intention of moving on will or have followed the recommended instructions.

Still, in the real world all that matters is doing what you want to do with your car. Believe what you want to but in the end don't belittle and criticize someone else or their video because their perspective or opinion doesn't fall in line with your way of thinking.

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by nbryant

I personally think the real question here how many of those that feel the hard break in is fine will own their cars in 4-5 years? I would venture to say that it would likely be that the majority probably will not and will be moving on to another version or something else all together. Some of us that have no intention of moving on will or have followed the recommended instructions.

Still, in the real world all that matters is doing what you want to do with your car. Believe what you want to but in the end don't belittle and criticize someone else or their video because their perspective or opinion doesn't fall in line with your way of thinking.

Exactly.

Theres no blanket procedure that covers all engines, so your "go to" will always be the manufactures recommendation. I doubt their motives are strictly warranty related - they know full well these cars get tend to get modded or sold well before any warranty expiration.

I will never buy a used camaro, because chances are it was not broke in to spec and was most likely driven into the ground. Too bad a carfax doesnt include the drivers age and driving habits!

[mgwarlock]

Mr. Oppenheimer?