[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by nyrfan

I'm not going to get into what I think of DR, but I will tell you this is NOT the correct mentality. By not using CC's you are losing all sorts of money and benefits. I have over 400K in available credit between credit cards and LOC and I have 0 revolving debt. I pay everything and anything I can with some type of rewards CC and I mean everything I can down to a pack of gum. The reasons are simple, buyer’s protection, rewards, 0 liability on purchases to name a few. Cash provides NO benefits, NONE. Every purchase I make over the course of a month on my CC is paid in full, I never carry a balance. So not only am I in the same debt position as someone using cash but I am making something from every single purchase. For example, I have one CC that pays me back 5% monthly for my gas purchase, another that pays my back 5% for restaurant and groceries purchases, one that has double miles when I spend on electronics, etc. By using cash only, you are losing money.

The bottom line is live within your means, don’t overspend, use CC’s to reap the benefits they offer, and pay in full every month.

I do the same thing. I have NEVER carried a credit balance in my life. I basically get paid every year to use a credit card. Its a great deal for me.

HOWEVER

I can see where this comes from, some people need a structure and a direction. The Cash thing is normally a bad idea, but some people need it to be able to break the habit and get n the right path.

[nyrfan]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

I do the same thing. I have NEVER carried a credit balance in my life. I basically get paid every year to use a credit card. Its a great deal for me.

HOWEVER

I can see where this comes from, some people need a structure and a direction. The Cash thing is normally a bad idea, but some people need it to be able to break the habit and get n the right path.

This is why I did not give an opinion on DR, just my opinion on not using a CC and the benefits/protection a person loses.

[armysig]

Originally Posted by nyrfan

I'm not going to get into what I think of DR, but I will tell you this is NOT the correct mentality. By not using CC's you are losing all sorts of money and benefits. I have over 400K in available credit between credit cards and LOC and I have 0 revolving debt. I pay everything and anything I can with some type of rewards CC and I mean everything I can down to a pack of gum. The reasons are simple, buyer’s protection, rewards, 0 liability on purchases to name a few. Cash provides NO benefits, NONE. Every purchase I make over the course of a month on my CC is paid in full, I never carry a balance. So not only am I in the same debt position as someone using cash but I am making something from every single purchase. For example, I have one CC that pays me back 5% monthly for my gas purchase, another that pays my back 5% for restaurant and groceries purchases, one that has double miles when I spend on electronics, etc. By using cash only, you are losing money.

The bottom line is live within your means, don’t overspend, use CC’s to reap the benefits they offer, and pay in full every month.

Ok where do I start, there's a lot of holes in your logic. This is not to disrespect you or your methods, but to maybe point out some things I think are incorrect.

Originally Posted by nyrfan

By not using CC's you are losing all sorts of money and benefits.... I pay everything and anything I can with some type of rewards CC and I mean everything I can down to a pack of gum.

So by using credit, you say you're gaining rewards from those purchases. Now I beg to differ, Credit card companies don't offer these rewards and lose money. Every time you use your card you're putting money in their pockets. Every transaction is a fee that the business has to pay. Normally 3% to 9%. Plus you would be more of an impulse buyer compaired to someone paying in cash. You just said that you pay for gum on credit. Why?

Originally Posted by nyrfan

Cash provides NO benefits, NONE.

I will fully and whole heartly disagree on this. If I have cash in hand I know what I have. I know that my money well be managed by me, not a credit card or loan company. When the ATM machines or credit card swipers go down at a store what form of payment do stores tell you to use? Cash, huge benefit. Plus Cash saves the business money, which COULD lower the cost of merchendise if people used more cash vs Credit.

Originally Posted by nyrfan

I have one CC that pays me back 5% monthly for my gas purchase, another that pays my back 5% for restaurant and groceries purchases, one that has double miles when I spend on electronics, etc. By using cash only, you are losing money.

Instead of using all that credit for those items, why not pay cash, take what you have left over (because you didn't impulse buy) and put it in a money market and EARN 12% gains on average over XX amount of years? You're losing 7% of your money and bought things that you can't retian.


Honestly people, I'm not here to preach. I wanted to know who used this method and if someone was interested in learning about it I was going to gift them a free book. No cost to that person. People that say credit cards are a must, well they have their own opintion. This really wasn't the topic for them.

[GMteSSted]

Dave Ramsey has been bankrupt twice!!!!! He is a hypocritical moron who talks a big game and lives a life of lies.....I.M.O.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by GMteSSted

Dave Ramsey has been bankrupt twice!!!!! He is a hypocritical moron who talks a big game and lives a life of lies.....I.M.O.

I'd say self made multi-milloinare twice is not exactly moron.

His bankruptcy protection does not make him such. jmo

Not sure why the hostility toward him. He's an honest businessman.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by armysig

So by using credit, you say you're gaining rewards from those purchases. Now I beg to differ, Credit card companies don't offer these rewards and lose money. Every time you use your card you're putting money in their pockets. Every transaction is a fee that the business has to pay. Normally 3% to 9%. Plus you would be more of an impulse buyer compaired to someone paying in cash. You just said that you pay for gum on credit. Why?

Thats the cost of doing business. Thats not my problem, thats the choice of the business owner to take a credit card. And those business owners build that into their operating costs which goes into the price of everything you buy, whether you pay cash or credit. There is no store that has a "cash" price and a "credit" price, aside from Gas stations.

Meanwhile you get a good rewards card that give you cash back, and you basically get PAID to use your own money. Last year Citibank gave me $300. I didn't give them one cent besides the amount I charged on my card.

I will fully and whole heartly disagree on this. If I have cash in hand I know what I have. I know that my money well be managed by me, not a credit card or loan company. When the ATM machines or credit card swipers go down at a store what form of payment do stores tell you to use? Cash, huge benefit. Plus Cash saves the business money, which COULD lower the cost of merchendise if people used more cash vs Credit.

Instead of using all that credit for those items, why not pay cash, take what you have left over (because you didn't impulse buy) and put it in a money market and EARN 12% gains on average over XX amount of years? You're losing 7% of your money and bought things that you can't retian.

You seem to not understand what he means by benefits. First off the benefits you listed are not important to everyone. I know exactly how much I spend without having to hold my own hand and I know I only have $40 in my pocket. I can manage my own money and still spend it wisely. And as for cash saving businesses money, well yes thats an idealistic thought, but it will never happen, so why bother. And yes cash always works, except credit card machines going down is a thing of the past, it doesn't happen much these days. And if it does, theres almost always an ATM within a block.

Meanwhile if I buy something on my credit card and I am unsatisfied with it and the store screws me, well I have a recourse to screw them back without having to waste time filing a small claims suit. If my wallet gets taken, sure have that credit card, I won't be responsible for it and it will be shut off immediately. If I buy something online and some nefarious individual gets my number, shut down! done! Not only that but I get points, discounts, and cash back. As I said I cleared over $300 from Citibank last year alone in cash back.

Finally you assume that because someone uses a credit card they will impulse buy. Maybe SOME people do that, but theres a whole lot of us who don't. I buy everything on credit, I think through all my purchases, and I never carry a balance.



Look I'm not belittling you or anything like that, also I am sure there are many that can appreciate a program like this to help them with their problem. But you do need to realize its your problem and their problem, but not everyones. The credit card company doesn't make people buy stuff. Its still their own choice in the end. And credit cards are a very useful tool in society, you just need to understand how to use them, and have the willpower not to burn yourself with them.

[PQ]

I'll tell you I am glad I had cash during Katrina and Ivan.

There are benefits to everything. Pros and cons.

I have a bank account that I use to buy on the internet. It stays below 10.00 until I want to buy something. I get online, transfer money in, buy the object and I never have to worry about getting my account drained by fraud.

I don't take advantage of rewards on my cards. The one that I used to take advantage of shut their rewards program down. The other one was just merchandise.

I kept a credit card that I didn't use for a few years and they cancelled it. Reason was due to inactivity. Been a few years since that happened but around the same time I had a card spending limit get reduced. If I recall from 3000.00 to 2500.00. Not sure what that was all about.

My credit score sits at 780 and I can't get it to go up for nothing. I try to use all of my cards at least once every couple months for stuff. EVERY factor of my credit is good. I have 90% available credit and no revolving balances.

I can't figure out how it all works. Doesn't seem to have any particular pattern. So I just go with the flow. Use a card when it's convenient. Like at a gas pump. Only reason I use them at all is so they don't get shut off.

[el ess A]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

The credit card company doesn't make people buy stuff. Its still their own choice in the end.

The way things are headed, this may not hold true much longer.

We manage credit very similarly. I've never paid the GM card a dime of interest, yet I've got to use "GM money" every time we went to get a new Camaro, truck, and Caddy. I booked a vacation for later this summer, and bought the weekly groceries with it, and a tank of gas in the truck on the way home. About 2K worth of charges. And the next day, I paid it off. I MADE about $20 this week already toward a new ZL1 convertible, or SS convertible (or even a Z28?). I only get 1% because it's the extended family card, but there's no limit and I still get the EVA on top of that and any potential incentives. I don't use it EVERY time I make a purchase, but I do use it a lot, but only if I'm going to be buying something anyway. I don't impulse buy with it and I know I must be diligent in paying it off quickly.

So I do use "cash" of sorts, but instead of writing 40 checks to somewhere else, I pay with my GM card, and make one online payment later in the week. Costs me nothing extra but a little time, which I can do while I'm reading posts like this on C5. Because it's for a PURPOSE. Otherwise, I'd just pay with cash/check/debit because that way you never have to worry about ever forgetting to pay the CC bill on time.

Bottom line, whatever works for you.

[armysig]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Thats the cost of doing business. Thats not my problem, thats the choice of the business owner to take a credit card. And those business owners build that into their operating costs which goes into the price of everything you buy, whether you pay cash or credit. There is no store that has a "cash" price and a "credit" price, aside from Gas stations.

Well I have seen plenty of stores in my area that don't take credit or checks. Granted they are not major chains, just mom and pop shops but it still does exsist.

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Meanwhile you get a good rewards card that give you cash back, and you basically get PAID to use your own money. Last year Citibank gave me $300. I didn't give them one cent besides the amount I charged on my card.

I don't doubt you did receive that money, but $300.00 in one year? That's hardly an investment. How much credit did you have to use to get that amount? I know it wasn't below $300. I would estimate it was 10 to 20 times that amount to receive that $300. Seems like a lot of extra spending to me.

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

And yes cash always works, except credit card machines going down is a thing of the past, it doesn't happen much these days. And if it does, theres almost always an ATM within a block.

You just gave an example of why cash is king. So you indirectly agreed with what I mentioned. And yes the machines do go down. I see it atleast 2 or 3 times a week at major stores when they have to switch them out or reset the server to get them to work again. Waste of my precious time to sit and have them do that when I want to get out of the store.

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Meanwhile if I buy something on my credit card and I am unsatisfied with it and the store screws me, well I have a recourse to screw them back without having to waste time filing a small claims suit. If my wallet gets taken, sure have that credit card, I won't be responsible for it and it will be shut off immediately. If I buy something online and some nefarious individual gets my number, shut down! done! Not only that but I get points, discounts, and cash back. As I said I cleared over $300 from Citibank last year alone in cash back.

Ok, so you know an average store gives you a grace period to return an item if you don't like it, doesn't work, or is faulty from the factory. If you try to return something AFTER that grace period how is it the stores fault. Now if you're over charged for an item, yes you should try to get your funds back. But by blocking a charge and sticking to the man just puts more overhead onto that company, then they have to pass along to us.

Now, wallets getting stolen pisses me off to no end. I have had mine and my wifes cards taken 3 times and the rat bastards have stolen our identity and it spread like wild fire. If I was just carring cash I can live with out a few hundred bucks. This crap has cost me thousands and I'm still fighting it. Where is the protection there? I have a fantastic bank thats been helping me through this since day one, unless you have had a card stolen you don't really know what can happen and how they really don't protect you. Once your info is out you're screwed, just ask anyone how much time and effort it takes to clear that mess up. That's a waste of time and money.

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Finally you assume that because someone uses a credit card they will impulse buy. Maybe SOME people do that, but theres a whole lot of us who don't. I buy everything on credit, I think through all my purchases, and I never carry a balance.

You are an oddball when it comes to this then. I have nothing but respect for people that can and do manage their money and credit cards. But the average person with XX cards has a high balance, and they do make the impulse buys, or over extends their ability to pay it back in a timely manor.
In all honesty I would rather have no cards, save up for what I want and buy it. Today people are in the "Gimmie now generation". Very few will wait, save and then buy.

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Look I'm not belittling you or anything like that, also I am sure there are many that can appreciate a program like this to help them with their problem. But you do need to realize its your problem and their problem, but not everyones. The credit card company doesn't make people buy stuff. Its still their own choice in the end. And credit cards are a very useful tool in society, you just need to understand how to use them, and have the willpower not to burn yourself with them.

I total respect your opinion and your thoughts. Each side has good points, but I think that there are more people in trouble due to credit cards than people like you, whom have the restraint to use it wisely.

[nyrfan]

Originally Posted by armysig

Well I have seen plenty of stores in my area that don't take credit or checks. Granted they are not major chains, just mom and pop shops but it still does exsist.



I don't doubt you did receive that money, but $300.00 in one year? That's hardly an investment. How much credit did you have to use to get that amount? I know it wasn't below $300. I would estimate it was 10 to 20 times that amount to receive that $300. Seems like a lot of extra spending to me.




You just gave an example of why cash is king. So you indirectly agreed with what I mentioned. And yes the machines do go down. I see it atleast 2 or 3 times a week at major stores when they have to switch them out or reset the server to get them to work again. Waste of my precious time to sit and have them do that when I want to get out of the store.



Ok, so you know an average store gives you a grace period to return an item if you don't like it, doesn't work, or is faulty from the factory. If you try to return something AFTER that grace period how is it the stores fault. Now if you're over charged for an item, yes you should try to get your funds back. But by blocking a charge and sticking to the man just puts more overhead onto that company, then they have to pass along to us.

Now, wallets getting stolen pisses me off to no end. I have had mine and my wifes cards taken 3 times and the rat bastards have stolen our identity and it spread like wild fire. If I was just carring cash I can live with out a few hundred bucks. This crap has cost me thousands and I'm still fighting it. Where is the protection there? I have a fantastic bank thats been helping me through this since day one, unless you have had a card stolen you don't really know what can happen and how they really don't protect you. Once your info is out you're screwed, just ask anyone how much time and effort it takes to clear that mess up. That's a waste of time and money.



You are an oddball when it comes to this then. I have nothing but respect for people that can and do manage their money and credit cards. But the average person with XX cards has a high balance, and they do make the impulse buys, or over extends their ability to pay it back in a timely manor.
In all honesty I would rather have no cards, save up for what I want and buy it. Today people are in the "Gimmie now generation". Very few will wait, save and then buy.





I total respect your opinion and your thoughts. Each side has good points, but I think that there are more people in trouble due to credit cards than people like you, whom have the restraint to use it wisely.

You say cash is "king" well what if you lose it? What insurance do you have that you'll get it back, none. Lose a CC, we'll you essentially lose nothing. I'd much rather come across a CC machine that does not work, or lose a CC then ever lose cash.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you on all your points. Bottom line is I use my credit card for everything I can. Last year I paid $0 in interest and received back about $800 (about $550 was just from gas & groceries as I receive 5% back for both) in rewards. No this is not a lot of money, but it's $800 more then the guy not using a CC + I have buyer protect on the products I purchased. All this for doing nothing more then swiping a card.

Also your question of how "how much did you have to spend" to receive "x" amounts of rewards is irrelevant. The purchases made would have been made either way, so I can use cash and receive nothing or swipe a CC and receive something.

As for your investing / impulse buying points. My cash sits in an interest bearing account longer then the cash people carry. I'm making more on my $ then cash carrying people as I have up to 28 days before interest start on my purchases. It's like having a 0% loan while my cash sits and earns, unlike the cash withdrawn (for cash carrying people) from an account 28 days earlier. Now add in that I am getting paid back for my purchases, plus have buyer protection. It's a win all around IMO. And as for impulse buying, we all do it to a point. For me though, my impulse buys are always within my means!!

We all have our opinions, I respect yours but certainly disagree with most of them.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by nyrfan

You say cash is "king" well what if you lose it? What insurance do you have that you'll get it back, none. Lose a CC, we'll you essentially lose nothing. I'd much rather come across a CC machine that does not work, or lose a CC then ever lose cash.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you on all your points. Bottom line is I use my credit card for everything I can. Last year I paid $0 in interest and received back about $800 (about $550 was just from gas & groceries as I receive 5% back for both) in rewards. No this is not a lot of money, but it's $800 more then the guy not using a CC + I have buyer protect on the products I purchased. All this for doing nothing more then swiping a card.

Also your question of how "how much did you have to spend" to receive "x" amounts of rewards is irrelevant. The purchases made would have been made either way, so I can use cash and receive nothing or swipe a CC and receive something.

As for your investing / impulse buying points. My cash sits in an interest bearing account longer then the cash people carry. I'm making more on my $ then cash carrying people as I have up to 28 days before interest start on my purchases. It's like having a 0% loan while my cash sits and earns, unlike the cash withdrawn (for cash carrying people) from an account 28 days earlier. Now add in that I am getting paid back for my purchases, plus have buyer protection. It's a win all around IMO. And as for impulse buying, we all do it to a point. For me though, my impulse buys are always within my means!!

We all have our opinions, I respect yours but certainly disagree with most of them.

I could not have replied better myself.

A few points. nyrfan is right, the amount of credit I used is irrelevant. I didn't buy extra things to make my cash back. My monthly CC bill is usually between $1000 and $1500, and what is on it, I can tell you 90% of every bill is:

Gas for Car, truck, and race car
Groceries
Parts for race car or truck (i don't mod my camaro, unless you count the lloyds floormats I got as a gift)
Parts for my side business (computers and home theater)
Pharmacy (vitamins, cold medicine, etc)

Only other things that go on there are if I take my girlfriend out to dinner, buy her a gift, (or any other gifts for that matter), and very occasional purchases for myself (I buy a video game once every 6 months maybe, sometimes a book on programming or something, occasional rc car parts, clothing if I need it).

My point being these are all normal expenses and you'll just have to take my word for the fact that I would have bought them either way. All that using cash would be doing for me is to annoy the shit out of me by having to go for the atm before buying. Its not an investment... its free money.

I realize the cash way is something some people need. But going into it with the right mindset is the first step towards making credit work for you, instead of against you.

As for cash vs credit in stores, around here theres only one place I know of that only takes cash and that is this coffee house my girlfriend likes. It drives me nuts to no end, because I carry little cash on me, but its a good place and she likes it so I deal. I can't remember the last time I was in a store and the credit card service went down, same thing, around here it just doesn't happen.

See I'm almost a bit opposite. If I did carry cash I would likely spend it faster. It almost burns a hole in my pocket. Which is why I don't. Not saying I'd be buying all sorts of stuff I didn't need, but it prevents the little things (an extra beer, a soda from the machine, lunch at a fast food place when I have a ton of food at home, etc).

As for card protections, I've had stores refuse to take a return (for no damn good reason), or charge me without delivering product, and so on. Admittedly the second one was due to purchasing on credit in the first place, but you can't order online with cash. When you fight a charge they don't automatically rule in favor of you, they investigate. If you don't have the card and their people to do that for you, you have to, and if you need to dispute it you head to small claims court, thats your only recourse.


As I said before I respect your opinion as well, and there are a LOT of people in trouble. But its not the credit card's fault, its theirs. I think however swearing off of them is avoiding a very useful tool that can work for you. Maybe swearing off for a time to straighten things out can help, but in the end, they can be extremely useful for anyone, and far more useful than just cash.

[armysig]

Ok so, let's get back onto topic, Who has been able to use the Dave Ramsey method OR would like to learn about it. Let me hear why you thing something like this would benifit you.

By the way guys, I think it's great that you can use restraint and not carry a balance on your cards. It's just a sad fact that you are the minority, and a lot of good people are making the wrong choices.